Pattern Density 20gauge cylinder bore

Gator Weiss

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Texas and other places
Cylinder bore shoots any type of shot, ball or slug. Pattern density is usually achieved by choking. As the 20 is already smaller bore than 12ga, would it be correct to say the shot is already leaving a smaller muzzle and therefore already "choked" down anyway? I want to stay cylinder bore if possible for all types of hunting using the same shotgun for convenience. Any thoughts?
 
No. Cylinder 20 will pattern as widely as cylinder 12 just with less shot.
Most shotguns come with screw chokes now.
I don’t understand your hangup on cylinder.
I want to shoot slug, buck, and shot out of the same 20ga, and want an ok pattern for shot. Slug and buck are best in cylinder bore. 20 is already a smaller bore, we choke down a 12 to get a smaller muzzle for pattern density, 20 is already small. Had questions, go figure.
 
I was just checking out an old Sears 20G with a 6 position choke. I was super tempted to grab it, but the store wants $200 +tax and DROS. I was thinking more like $200 OTD. Woods nice, but there's some pitting on the receiver. Would something with an adjustable choke be better for what you're trying to do?
 
I was just checking out an old Sears 20G with a 6 position choke. I was super tempted to grab it, but the store wants $200 +tax and DROS. I was thinking more like $200 OTD. Woods nice, but there's some pitting on the receiver. Would something with an adjustable choke be better for what you're trying to do?
Yeah, I like the idea, for sure. Ive got alot of guns, doubles, pumps, auto, etc. But I always go back to my old single barrels, they are light to carry, easy to clean, easy to manage and I really like 20ga.
 
I think there is some truth to your theory, but not enough to really matter. There are other disadvantages that will offset the slightly tighter pattern which I discuss below.

Remington makes the 870 with a 21" barrel that takes choke tubes intended for turkey hunting. You can buy dozens of factory and aftermarket choke tubes to get any pattern you want. If I were to choose only one it would be Improved cylinder. It still shoots slug and buckshot well and gives patterns satisfactory for moderate ranges. The gun is light, short and makes for a good do-all gun. It isn't ideal for long range waterfowl or dove shots. But OK for most other shooting including self-defense. I have an older one in 12 ga and one of the new guns in 20 ga.



There is a lot of overlap in performance. You can get 20 ga shells with 7/8 oz of shot up to 1 1/4 oz. Either 7/8 or 1 oz are most common. You can buy 12 ga shells with 7/8 of ounce up to 2 ounces with 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz being the most common. You can make a 20 do almost the same thing by carefully choosing your ammo. Just be aware, to get close to 12 ga performance will require you to buy less common, and more expensive 20 ga loads. And if you need more than 1 1/4 oz of shot to get the job done you need a 12.

As long as you don't need more than 1 1/4 oz of shot to get the job done 20 ga will do almost the same thing but there are some disadvantages. You will ALWAYS get better patterns with a 12 ga even with the same weight shot. You don't just deal with the width of the shot pattern, but the length. 20 ga loads have a longer shot string. Meaning some pellets are going to be farther ahead of the ones in the back of the pattern. A 12 ga shell has a shorter shot string, meaning all of the pellets arrive on target at closer to the same time. If shooting a stationary target it doesn't matter. But when shooting moving game or clay targets it can matter.

Theoretically 20 has less recoil. But that only applies if you're shooting less shot in the same weight gun. With most guns a 20 is about 1 lb lighter than a comparable 12. If you're shooting 1 oz loads from a 6 lb 20 ga and 1 oz loads from a 7 lb 12, the 20 is going to kick more. If you're shooting 7/8 oz 20 ga loads in a 6 lb gun and 1 1/8 oz loads from a 7 lb 12, recoil will be about the same. The 12 only kicks more with heavier loads.

I switched to a lighter to carry, short barreled 20 ga for turkey hunting years ago. Since I'm shooting at a stationary target the long shot string isn't a handicap. With modern shells and aftermarket choke tubes patterns are good enough for 40 yard kills. A 12, would extend that range by about 10 yards. But to me the lighter gun to carry is a better choice.

For SD, or waterfowl hunting the bigger payload of 12 ga shells and the shorter shot string make a 12 my choice. I choose a 20 for the times where carrying a lighter gun is more important. If you don't waterfowl hunt then a 20 probably comes close enough to meet your needs. But I'd not want to be handicapped with a fixed cylinder bore.
 
The amount of "choke" is the difference between the bore diameter and the diameter of the choke. Cylinder bore has no choke in either 12 gauge or 20 gauge. So..cylinder bore 12 gauge and cylinder bore 20 gauge shoot about the same diameter pattern. The easy answer that most people do is screw in chokes. Change the cylinder screw in choke to maybe a modified when shooting shot.
 
The amount of "choke" is the difference between the bore diameter and the diameter of the choke.

This right here. It doesn’t matter what the nominal bore diameter is. It only matters what the “actual” bore diameter is and subtract the choke diameter to get the total constriction.

This how it works for 10, 12, 20 gauge, etc. Some shot guns are backfired. In this instance the same rules still apply.

Some shotguns are jug choked. This is where the bore opens up and then closes back down at the muzzle all within the barrel itself. The choke in this instance would be the difference between the max bore diameter and the diameter at the muzzle.
 
Biggest problem with a cylinder bore is the tendency to throw donut patterns. Very thin centers. Many old time manufacturers actually sneaked in a few points of constriction.
I had a Model 12 25" marked "cyl" that had .003". It was great on dove, quail and skeet.
I "jugged" in five or six thousandths in several muzzle loading shotguns and they were great.
With your original logic/question, just buy a .410 and cut the choke off. Should shoot like a rifle. (sarcasm emoji here)
 
I have guns with screw-in chokes and some without. I have 12s and 20s. One 20 I have is full choke 28" with 3" chamber and with a 3" shell it acts alot like my 12ga guns with 6,7,8 shot size. I seldom use 3" in any of my 20ga guns. The 2.75" shells in my 20s have dropped doves, rabbits, squirrell, busted trap-clays easily enough. I like shotgun slugs sometimes, too. My 20ga guns seem lighter to carry, convenient, and I am starting to favor my old time break-overs in 12s and 20s again.
 
In reading here, thinking it over, for me, a good single-shot 20ga with a variety of choke tubes and a 3" chamber is probably going to be the better option for what I like to do, or a light-weight 20ga double barrell with 3" chambers.
 
I don't think you need cylinder bore to shoot slugs. I've shot slugs out of improved cylinder and it was fine. Took me a lot of reading about it to get up the courage. I think you can go more choke than that and still shoot slugs. the manufacturer of the barrel should have some info on what can shoot slugs and what can't, but I think you can shoot slugs out of a barrel that has a bit of choke to it, and many are designed to do so.
 
You can even shoot the Foster type, “so called” rifled slugs through a full choke. Best results I’ve seen however has been with Improved Cylinder. Modified chokes have delivered good performance too.
I wouldn’t recommend shooting slugs through a thin barrel older SxS or O/U.
 
You can even shoot the Foster type, “so called” rifled slugs through a full choke. Best results I’ve seen however has been with Improved Cylinder. Modified chokes have delivered good performance too.
I wouldn’t recommend shooting slugs through a thin barrel older SxS or O/U.
The only problem shooting slugs through full choke is if the muzzle is thin-walled, eventually it moves, distorts. IC or MOD or CB seems to work fine with fosters and brenneke slugs. SXS - depending on how made and when and by who - can be sensitive to slug damage especially when its not CB. Are the O/U guns as sensitive to slugs as the SXS?
 
I was just checking out an old Sears 20G with a 6 position choke. I was super tempted to grab it, but the store wants $200 +tax and DROS. I was thinking more like $200 OTD. Woods nice, but there's some pitting on the receiver. Would something with an adjustable choke be better for what you're trying to do?
I think it has many possibilities to be sure.
 
In reading here, thinking it over, for me, a good single-shot 20ga with a variety of choke tubes and a 3" chamber is probably going to be the better option for what I like to do, or a light-weight 20ga double barrell with 3" chambers.
That should work for you. If you have a gun that you like for this purpose, but it's fixed choke, you could send the barrel to Michael Orlen (or some other competent installer) an have him install screw-in chokes for you. I've done this with a few of my shotguns and they all work great and throw excellent patterns with the Colonial Sporting Clays chokes that I'm using.


R5FVm46.jpg


Here's a photo showing the size and appearance of the Colonial Sporting Clay choke:
bxoQvrS.jpg
 
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Biggest problem with a cylinder bore is the tendency to throw donut patterns. Very thin centers. Many old time manufacturers actually sneaked in a few points of constriction.
I had a Model 12 25" marked "cyl" that had .003". It was great on dove, quail and skeet.
I "jugged" in five or six thousandths in several muzzle loading shotguns and they were great.
With your original logic/question, just buy a .410 and cut the choke off. Should shoot like a rifle. (sarcasm emoji here)
20-gauge doesn't do this, in my experience....
 
I want to shoot slug, buck, and shot out of the same 20ga, and want an ok pattern for shot. Slug and buck are best in cylinder bore. 20 is already a smaller bore, we choke down a 12 to get a smaller muzzle for pattern density, 20 is already small. Had questions, go figure.
If you want to shoot buckshot, you want choke. You might want to consider having a gunsmith thread the barrel for screw-in chokes.

For upland hunting, or shooting slugs, cylinder is just fine. I have a 20-gauge Stevens 67, with a barrel marked "modified", but the barrel has a cylinder choke (I bought it used, so I don't know the history), and it patterns beautifully, and evenly. It's a very good hunting gun, and I plan to use it more in the future.
 
I have a 20-gauge Stevens 67,
I really like those guns. Hunted with one in 20ga for years. Sold it to a friend back in the 70's and he won't sell it back to me. We are still friends though. Can't remember that gun ever not working perfectly.
 
cyl. bore for the 20 ga. is too open for hunting , i think the 20 benefits from a tighter choke than the 12 ga. though there are 1 oz. loads for the 20 , it's not a smaller 12 ga. seems to have it's own idiosyncracies, pellet count is important in the 20. I shoot a 12 ga much better than the 20 but there can't be that much difference between 1 oz. of 8s nad 1 and 1/8 oz. of 7.5s
 
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