Pdw?!!! A different breed.

[MartinS]

An AR pistol is stockless off course, has to be per fedregs. The naked buffer tube just happens to look like a stock, a bad stock, but a stock...

 

[Magnuumpwr]

I am with Sam and Mr.trooper. Here is what it looks like:

This one is a G17, but you can use a G22 or G30. You just have to decide what caliber you prefer. Or this, as mentioned:

Or like the one on the far right:

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[InkEd]

I'll second the MPA MAC-clones. I own one and it is a serious little thing.

 

[Nickel Plated]

IF you do go with a PGO shotgun like a mossberg, use a birdshead grip on it instead of the standard pistol grip. Makes the recoil a lot easier on the wrists. Also in the case of mossbergs. There is a way to give them a 14 inch barrel without NFA paperwork, and the ATF approves. But most people still aren't particularly comfortable with the legality of it. So that's up to you

 

[barnbwt]

Does a PPSH43 pistol count?

I prefer the stockless '41 myself

Less so the snub-nose;


Any PDW is better with a stock, since you end up wrapped around the little thing, making it really hard to take away, and really easy to control while firing. Your won't be pointing the barrel at walls, anyway, so it's not like the extra length is a deal-breaker. In an area where it's too tight to hunch your shoulders and move around, I'm not sure a pistol would be much "handier"

TCB

 

[PoserHoser]

That's wicked cool did you build it yourself?!

 

[barnbwt]

LOL, Heck no! I wish!

Nah, I like the "classic silhouette" better; much more identifiable

*Text is something to the effect of "Glory to the Warrior-Liberator," and would have been fitting had the Soviets not been mass-murderers themselves

 

[Dr.Rob]

I have a friend that I just found out built a bunch of those PSH43 "pistol" kits.

Says they are fun and LOUD but get reallllly hot.

 

[Thermactor]

How about a Hi-Point 995? (snicker)

 

[PoserHoser]

Leaning towards an ak pistol.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Really? This thread has me wanting an Enforcer.

 

[zdc1775]

Really? This thread has me wanting an Enforcer.

Me too, and another to SBR

 

[PoserHoser]

I would but .30 m1 is stupid expensive where I live :banghead:

 

[zdc1775]

I would but .30 m1 is stupid expensive where I live :banghead:

Probably is around me too but to be honest ammo is usually about the last thing I think about when I come up with what I want as I reload.

 

[daehawc]

My votes go for Sig's new SB15 equipped "pistol" AR's.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProd...istol-with-sb15-pistol-stabilizing-brace.aspx

Either one of those or the Kel-Tec KSG / RFB. I owned a KSG and it was awesome how short that thing was.

 

[mljdeckard]

I also realize, that while I have a M-1 carbine, and I think it's pretty close to perfect for the job, if I hadn't inherited it, I doubt I would pay today's prices for a good one. You could get into a great AR for what tou would pay for a good carbine these days.

 

[we are not amused]

To DrRob:
Not to be a nit picker here, but just what was the group size in your video?

By the way, I agree with those who want a stock on their PDW. "Assault pistols" are just too powerful and unwieldy to mange the recoil. A normal pistol or short rifle/shotgun is what I want. In fact a twenty or twenty gauge "coach gun" sounds rather pratical for defending a vehicle.

 

[barnbwt]

"Either one of those or the Kel-Tec KSG / RFB."
Those are pretty different guns; not sure I'd call either a PDW


The Brugger & Thomet TP9 (aka Steyr TMP) is what I'd want as a PDW/Machine Pistol. True locking breach (rotating barrel) and in 9mm. Recoil has got to be miniscule out of that thing.

The real problem with "PDW" is the definition has become overbroad, so as to be meaningless. We've got everything from five-sevens to heavy shotguns under the heading at this point. Is PDW supposed to be a role (i.e. "sniper rifle"), or a weapon type (i.e. "battle rifle")?

If the former, let's break it into subtypes, please
-Duty Pistol/AOW; full size pistol, may or may not have a foregrip, but no stock. Almost exclusively recoil operated
-Machine Pistol; between pistol and rifle as far as size, but still shoots pistol calibers, albeit from larger magazines. Typically blowback or recoil operated. Must have a telescoped bolt and grip magwell to be small enough for me to not consider it a Tactical pistol, or compact carbine with a stock attached
-Light Carbine; my own "pet category" which contains arms like the M1 Carbine whose cartridges fall between most pistol and rifle loadings. They usually require a locked breech, but have a smaller frame/receiver than full-size rifle platforms. Typically loud, high pressure rounds with short barrels
-Tactical Pistol; legally cut-down rifle with no buttstock and shorter barrel than typical for the cartridges, which are "rifle class" high pressure rounds requiring a gas operated locked breech (or alternately, heavily delayed blowback). They main defining feature is they are pistols that are too large to be realistically carried in a holster, because the magazine well sits outside the grip
-Compact Carbine; basically a Tactical Pistol with a shoulder stock. M4 is the easiest example, as would be a 30-30 lever gun
-Duty Rifle; this is your compact carbine with a full length barrel and gas system. Midrange caliber, full size platform
-Main Rifle; full size rifle in a full size rifle caliber. Frequently used as DMRs because of their cartridges longer effective range.

If the latter, I think of PDWs as select fire stocked machine-pistols in a low-recoil chambering. The P90 and Skorpion come to mind. Power level takes a backseat to capacity and the ability to send as many lethal-class projectiles as possible in a defensive scenario, while the platform remains small enough to be unobtrusive in the course of other duties.

You could get into a great AR for what tou would pay for a good carbine these days.

And that, sadly, is why the Light Carbine niche is so poorly served at present. They require the same designs considerations as a full sized rifle, so they cost about the same despite being slightly smaller. Same price + slightly smaller gun will lose out to the bigger gun every time in commercial sales (Bigger Gun Syndrome) whether or not it is more appropriate for the task at hand.

The M1 carbine's bolt mechanism is similar to the M1 rifle, though the carbine has a different gas system

Now, would you, as John Q Gunbuyer, choose a new M1 carbine or a new Garand for the same price?

TCB

 

[daehawc]

My suggestions were mainly set upon the OP question on a tax free "PDW."

From my understanding, he wanted a gun that was more powerful than a pistol but handy in enclosed areas such as a vehicle / RV.

While I'd love to suggest full autos and other military / state arms, your average person is going to have a hard time legally and financially getting a hold of one.

From handling the Sig with their "pistol brace," It makes a good substitute for a SBR in a legal / off the shelf way.

The KSG is just awesome and has a lot of things going for it in close quarters with the down side of recoil.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Not to be a nit picker here, but just what was the group size in your video?

Just to be clear it wasn't my video, just used it to illustrate what the Enforcer is.

It's rare to see someone using the sights of an Enforcer. It's a 'range toy' for most that own it. However, compared to a LOT of other PDW styles it's relatively light weight (compared to an AK or AR pistol).

I suggested it because the OP had an M1 Carbine already and would have magazines already and an understanding of taking it apart. Also it's designed to be used 2 handed, though it can be one handed.

 

[we are not amused]

It's rare to see someone using the sights of an Enforcer. It's a 'range toy' for most that own it. However, compared to a LOT of other PDW styles it's relatively light weight (compared to an AK or AR pistol).

That was rather my point. There are a lot of "range toys" out there, including in my opinion the AR-15 pistols and AK-47 pistols. I don't care how "neat" it is, if what I am looking at is to be used as self defense. (Although, I do agree that the Enforce is neat, and probably more practical than an AK or AR pistol)) You have to be able to hit the target.

Which is why I prefer a short carbine or shotgun. By short I mean legal length, but handy in an enclosed area. I kind of like a semi-auto shot gun, with sights and stock, although a AR-15 with a short barrel and stock are good too. If I require something smaller and more maneuverable, I would want to use a good pistol. I can justify a "Coach Gun", which is a double barreled shotgun, with an 18" barrel, for use in a vehicle, as it is simple and easy to use and reload, but that is about as far as I could go with "exotic" weapons.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Just trying to answer the OP's parameters. And show off some 'other' options.

Anything used indoors firing rifle rounds (including the carbine) is going to damage your hearing. That's a 'minor' concern vs. saving your life.

If it was possible to get a WW2 Inglis HP with a shoulder stock (or similarly exempted reliable stocked handgun) at a reasonable price I'd say 'stop right here'.

The fact is MOST 'pistols' that were rifles designed without a stock are usually unbalanced and difficult to aim.

 

[Magnuumpwr]

Close quarters, better than a pistol round: best all around option, PS90. Brass goes down and not up and to the right.

 

[TexAg]

I'd go for a folding stocked gun of some kind. I put a Bonesteel folder with a Magpul stock on my AK and it fits great under the rear seat.