Peace and Security Through Defense and Neutrality

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Every empire must fall. The US can abandon its imperial ambitions or it can continue until some combination of inside and outside forces topples the global US power machine. The latter result will be much worse for the country than the former.

It is indeed true that Americans would have to wean themselves from certain excesses of the consumerist system if the global power structure were abandoned, but it's better to make that adjustment gradually and voluntarily than to be forced to by circumstance.

Anyone who wants to learn more about neocon imperialism should visit http://www.newamericancentury.org to read the details from the horse's mouth.
 
Some here appear to be lacking in the knowledge of history. Many things happened before your own time, so judging this country solely by your perception of current events does a great injustice to all who have preserved this country and our way of life for you. Either that, or your agenda is showing. In either case, shame on you.

Whether it's agenda, a lack of the knowledge of history, or the result of the programming you might have received in the public schools of late, you owe it to yourselves to go out and get a few history books published prior to the 1960's - ancient, European, Middle East, Asian, Mediterranean, and of the Americas - and spend about six months reading and cross checking all of it and you might come back to us here with a perspective more in line with what is really going on around you and around the world today.

More than that I cannot say and remain within the bounds of The High Road.

Woody

You all need to remember where the real middle is. It is the Constitution. The Constitution is the biggest compromise - the best compromise - ever written. It is where distribution of power and security of the common good meets with the protection of rights, freedom, and personal sovereignty. B.E.Wood
 
Ah, Yes . . .

America.

The very worst of the lot.

Except for all the others.

It must suck to live in a country beyond redemption.

If I were King of America, I would immediately institute a plan to assist those whose American citizenship causes them undue distress to relocate to a more suitable environment of their choosing.

We would do it as part of an exchange program: those who hate it here would be traded to other nations in exchange for those who are desperate to move here. We would pay for all facets of the relocation of both the emigrant and the immigrant, even unto finding employment for the immigrants.

No one would be forced to stay in a nation that suffers from excessive liberty (by comparison with other nations).

After all, it's the only humane thing to do.
 
Who's "messing with us?" Muslims? Until the end of the Cold War, the CIA never met a Muslim fundie they didn't like. They supported religious right elements in Afghanistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and other countries and opposed Mideast secularists because of the possibility, however remote, that they might be in cahoots with the Soviets.

None of the foreign interventions the US stepped into since the end of WWII have been worth the cost. Communist governments are incompetent and self-destructive and would have failed whether we attacked them or not, especially if the USSR hadn't been kept afloat with grain subsidies and other measures. The only beneficiaries of the international adventures have been the corporations that pull the government's strings from behind the scenes.

The US can't be seen as an untainted international "good guy" after funding Latin American death squads and supporting any brutal dictator willing to promise he wasn't a commie. The only way the country can be absolved is for it to wash its hands of imperialism once and for all.
 
QuestionEverything said:
Communist governments are incompetent and self-destructive and would have failed whether we attacked them or not...

That is quite true, QE, but the USSR was bent on world domination, and their expansion is what kept them afloat for all those years. Had we left them to their own devices, yes, they would have eventually failed, but would have taken a much greater portion of the Earth's population with them. Maybe even us. We contained them and they failed before they could take the whole rest of the world with them.

It wasn't Imperialism or anything else. Re-examine all those other actions since WW II, and I think you'll find in all those cases a similar modus operandi.

Woody

"The United States of America is not up for grabs. Keep your hands off and steer clear. Free people live here - Free people who are determined to stay free. Our rights and freedom will be defended with extreme prejudice." B.E.Wood
 
I agree with the Old Jefferson quote, "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none should be our motto."

Build our navy back up to cold war levels. Keep offensive nuclear weapons for strategic defensive purposes. Reduce the size of the standing Army while increasing the size and educating the populace about militia membership and what John Jay wrote about Just War in the Federalist Papers. Secure the border, get out of the UN, get rid of foreign aid and increase domestic spending... etc etc.
 
None of the foreign interventions the US stepped into since the end of WWII have been worth the cost.

That cost cannot be fully evaluated without also answering what the cost of NOT intervening would have been. As it stands, your assertion is just that, an assertion, and a poorly founded one at that.

Communist governments are incompetent and self-destructive and would have failed whether we attacked them or not,

Oh, really? And exactly how many communist governments imploded prior to 1989?

In 1988, that assertion was only an unproved academic theory espoused only by foriegn policy think tanks, who argued over it like rabid, unchained economists.

The soviets played the game, and they played it hard, and they played it for keeps, right up until they ran out of gas and went teats up. Until that moment, any notion that they might just go poof and collapse in a relatively orderly fashion was waaaaay too hypothetical to bet a free planet on.


especially if the USSR hadn't been kept afloat with grain subsidies and other measures.

The easiest way to turn a fluid, potentially dangerous and manageable situation into a chaotic, actively dangerous and unmanageable situation is to toss hunger induced food riots into the mix.

As they say, that would "not be in our interest".

Furthermore, the strategic advantage of having your enemy's dinner table beholden to your trade should be obvious, but in case it isn't, the grain subsidies were one of several important levers we could reach into the soviet sphere with.

The only beneficiaries of the international adventures have been the corporations that pull the government's strings from behind the scenes.

Oh, please. Not the old corporate shadow government boogeyman. I'll let someone else take that one.


The US can't be seen as an untainted international "good guy" after funding Latin American death squads and supporting any brutal dictator willing to promise he wasn't a commie.

The cold war was long and dirty, and I don't think any reflective evaluation of it can realistically claim that we came out of it with lilly white hands.

The world is an inherently dirty place, and the best that can be done is to keep as clean as possible.

Becoming virtuously dead/defeated while ushering in a new dark age of global communism is an outcome that doesn't impress me.

The only way the country can be absolved is for it to wash its hands of imperialism once and for all.

Absolved by who?

What nation on this world is can realistically claim moral superiority to us that they could grant us absolution?

And at then end of the day, how _exactly_ is it that washing our hands of our alleged "imperialism" going to serve the interests of freedom in the world?

Global misery and darkness would have been the price of losing the cold war, and failing to fight that long, cold war wouldn't have changed that miserable outcome.
 
Reduce the size of the standing Army while increasing the size and educating the populace about militia membership and what John Jay wrote about Just War in the Federalist Papers. Secure the border, get out of the UN, get rid of foreign aid and increase domestic spending... etc etc.

I can dream.......

The Govt will not do this.......their into self preservation regardless of "We the People"........they will just spin the "its for your protection" line anyway.
 
America.

The very worst of the lot.

Except for all the others.

It must suck to live in a country beyond redemption.
I started to write a response to this drivel, but honestly? It's not worth the effort.

It would be nice to have an informed discussion about political neutrality and the ethics of offensive warfare without the BS bumper-sticker sloganeering. But I'm probably asking too much.

- Chris
 
"Peace" isn't giving the bully your lunch money while pretending you're friends.

If the world's meanies have given you a fright, and made you feel guilty for it, go ahead and crawl back into your isolationist's hole.

They can bite me. I'm keeping my lunch money.
 
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