Peace Protestors, more screaming fits

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10shooter

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Many of you already know that on March 19th across the nation many peace niks are planning to protest the second anniversary of the Iraq invasion. These people are putting our service men and women at risk, they try to show a divided nation. The media broadcast and the terrorist around the world see us as a divided nation. Many will believe if they cut off another head or blow up some more troops we will run away because we never unite to finish anything. These protestors need to be countered, the elections are over these screaming temper tantrum destroy us from within. Now is the time to say enough, I ask you to find these protest and show up to counter. I've been countering the one in Fort Worth that has been used to advertise for the demostration on 7th street at the park. They protested (advertised for 11 Wednesdays) I countered for 5 at the end they left out the peace and went to pure bigoted hate in attacking me and those walking by that disagreed. I have four fellow officers in Iraq and one in Afganistan, I don't want anyone to harm or aid in their harm. Those with friends or family serving around the world March 19th will be your day to say "I won't let others screw them over and do nothing."
Check with the ProtestWarriors see if you can help.
Check codepink to find their schedule.
Those on your own, one airhorn during their hate speeches will do you proud.
Those with friends and family in the area can do so much more.
 
Already taken care of in my area. A small demonstration was planned. In response, we put the word out at Fort Polk yesterday, where 500 servicemen had just returned from Iraq and were reunited with their families. A large number have promised to turn up...

:evil: :neener: :D
 
Right or wrong, we are obligated to support our troops. Heck, I just sent a magazine (gun mag) over to a sniper squad. Also included some articles I wrote about the blackpowder sharpshooter.

For you guys who want to read sharpshooter stories, check out "Bedtime Stories" in THR's blackpowder forum. It's six pages of sharpshooter stories.
 
Like it or not, these folks have the same right to express their opinion as you or I.

Counter their demonstrations in any peaceful manner that you choose.

The right to protest is one of the strengths of our society, and one (of the many) things that diferentiate our way of life from, oh just for instance, Saddam's Iraq. Or Iran, China, PRNK, just about any place in Africa, and most places in South America. Mexico also comes to mind.

And no, I don't agree with them.
 
Third_rail: would you have interpreted it differently?


Not only are we a divided nation, Washington is a divided state. Braz and I live in the fairly liberal Puget Sound region; most of the state (geographically) is more conservative, but as a percentage of the population there are more liberal people.

For the 2004 Presidential election, people in Washington voted (1):
Bush 1,304,894
Kerry 1,510,201

Compared to nationally (2):
Bush 60,693,281
Kerry 57,355,978

The local races are tight too, this one being for Governor (3):
Gregoire 1,373,171
Rossi 1,373,041

I'm not taking pot shots here--it's just foolish to think that we can name-call or airhorn "the other half" into agreement or hide them from the rest of the world. We just make ourselves look silly, and allienate some independents who might be allies.


--
1. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/wa/
2. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/elections/2004/
3. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=357331
 
i was kinda happy about the way Newsom, the notoriously lame SF mayor is handling it.

he refused to lower the flag to half mast.

now before you supporters of the war get all upset, hear him, and me out-
(first off , i support the deposing of Saddam, whatever the method)
OK= so Newsom's logic was he could NOT bow to protestors demading the flag be lowered for our lost soldiers just because they want him to.
there are specific guidelines for flag lowering, and this would have opened the door to almost any group wishing the flag be lowered.

Now= besides these legal reasons, that i agree with, the govt flag is for govt officials, local heroes, national events.
IF they lowered the Flag for the protestors, in a way, it would be as if the Govt of SF joined the protest, and they did not.

i barely understand the logic of us not going to Iraw in the first place, i totally dont understand the logic of pullnig out now.

***************
my favorite, somewhat tough to dispute argument, especially in the face of a hard anti war person=

Should we NOt have fought the civil war??

at the time of the civil war it took 3 weeks to march to the south, poor folks form the city fought a rich man's war essentially over manufacturing/labor/tariff disputes, in the name of a greater cause, freeing slaves.

sure, Iraq is far away, but when people are oppressed like that, it IS our business, and Iraq , with oil, has the potential to recover, unlike many other oppresive states. further, it was weak enough we actually could go in and do something. (in response to the "why don't we go to China" argument, obviously it would cost too many lives to help anything.

Not to mention WWII which is already a historical Shame for the way we watched the jews (among others) get taken away for years, only doing something whne we were finally attacked, and it started making huge economic sense to go to war.
and Again, the poor fought, while most of the rich stayed home.
So Be it. i have a particular unfondness for the extremely wealthy, but at the same time i recognize that without money, factories, etc, we could not defend such large groups of people , wars unfortunately must be fought.

every $300 paid by a rich guy to stay out of the civil war= rifles and bullets to kill slave owners (HA!)

so when people tell me we shouldn't be in Iraq, i ask them well should we not have gone to the south either???
in today's world , Iraq is way closer then Georgia was to NY.

how anyone can tell themself they should allow mass graves and other tyrannies of Saddam continue, on OUR dollar (whether we by the oil he sold off for palaces etc directly or not, we all affect the price).

sure it's ok to drive your car, buy Saddam guns, let him kill whoever.

but pay to get him out of there???

i am so thankful for all these brave soldiers wh ogo out there because they know they are protecting the future for all of us.


HA! i just wish Clinton had had the nerve, the US people had the nerve back then when we actually had the $$$ to blast Saddam.
we had enough reason then, but Clinton actually bowed to the will of the people and pulled back.

Dubya and comany saw too much Profit to resist. i know those punks only go to Iraq for the $$ reason. i have no fear at all Iraq posed any threat to the US as a nation.
BUT Saddam had to go, really. he was a turd, scamming his oil for food, oppressing his people, a ruthless murderer bent on total domination of anyone under him.

i Do believe he would ultimately have attacked Israel, another reason to get him out of there.
 
Right or wrong, we are obligated to support our troops
Click to expand...
HORSE-PUCKEY! If our troops are acting contrary to our constitution, I owe them not one wit of support. And ya know, the more I think of this, and the more I read of this, the less I support this "War on Terror". Show me the freaking objectives, show me the targets to be taken out. Felling Dren, how about showing me the :cuss: Declaration of War out of Congress? And frankly, if the folks under arms do not demand such of their "Leaders", why should I give them my support? :scrutiny:
 
I support the soldiers, but I don't support the leadership. I suspect there are many out there like me, even on this board.
 
Real peace protesters

People who want peace, act like the Swiss: arm and train for defense of the civil population, but don't allow arbitrary government power. Unfortunately, Americans fall into two groups: idiot 'pacifists' who want only violent political factions to be armed (preferably only one big faction, e.g. the UN), and Emperor-worshipers who support any unconstitutional foreign aggression.

The Swiss have been at peace for 200 years, but no one is interested:
http://www.strike-the-root.com/51/walker/walker1.html
 
And ya know, the more I think of this, and the more I read of this, the less I support this "War on Terror" Show me the freaking objectives, show me the targets to be taken out. Felling Dren, how about showing me the Declaration of War out of Congress?
Click to expand...

I'd be happy to show you around the Pentagon Memorial to the 240+ victims of the 9.11 attack. Perhaps some of our NY members could show you around the WTC attack site, and show you the plans for the memorial to the 3000+ victims there. And Perhaps some of of PA members could show you around the Shanksville memorial site as well.
 
Let them protest. Who cares, anyway?

It will keep them busy and let them blow off steam. Becuase, "idle hands are the devil's workshop."

Quote:"how about showing me the Declaration of War out of Congress."

I happen to agree with that. If there was ever a time to declare war it was after 9/11. It would have made the war easier. A country at war has a lot more latitude in what it can do.
 
...how about showing me the Declaration of War out of Congress? And frankly, if the folks under arms do not demand such of their "Leaders", why should I give them my support?
Click to expand...
It appears you're a small step from endorsing treason.

FWIW, Congress hasn't declared war on anybody since WWII. I don't exactly know why, but suspect it has to do with the many insurance clauses which won't pay when war is declared. However, Congress did vote to give GWB the authority to conduct operations in Iraq. You can find it here. This is not a "Declaration", but IMO, it comes pretty darned close. Of course, Your Mileage May Vary.
 
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I'd be happy to show you around the Pentagon Memorial to the 240+ victims of the 9.11 attack. Perhaps some of our NY members could show you around the WTC attack site, and show you the plans for the memorial to the 3000+ victims there. And Perhaps some of of PA members could show you around the Shanksville memorial site as well.
Click to expand...
CHL:

All of this was done by an enemy of Saddam. 9/11 and Iraw aren't related.
 
Well unless the news shows anything different it looks like most of the protest fizzled. I have several friends fighting in Iraq and Afganistan. One of my concerns is when we show a division in our country others may try to exploit this. Some thugs around the world believe that cuting off more heads or blowing up more people will tilt the tide in their favor. I understand many don't agree with this war. I agree with wars that remove murderous thugs, Saddam was one the Taliban were the other. We found no weapons of mass destruction. We found none of with gas agents he used on the Kurds or Iranians. We found a few hundred thousand in mass graves. I also believed that we should have used force to help stop the 500,000 killed in Rhowanda. I've heard the arguements that we can protest if you want to it our right, and now others are enjoying that right that didn't have them before.
So when someone wants to endanger our troops with protest I show up to show that others do not agree. Thanks for listening to my ranting.
 
HORSE-PUCKEY! If our troops are acting contrary to our constitution, I owe them not one wit of support. And ya know, the more I think of this, and the more I read of this, the less I support this "War on Terror". Show me the freaking objectives, show me the targets to be taken out. Felling Dren, how about showing me the Declaration of War out of Congress? And frankly, if the folks under arms do not demand such of their "Leaders", why should I give them my support?
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: If only the world were this simplistic. Unfortunately, it's not.
 
Why is it so hard to separate the soldiers from the war? Our troops are doing as they are ordered, doing a tough job, and doing it in an exemplary fashion. None of us wish them any harm. In fact, most of us wish we didn't have any troops in harms way at all.

Even though I wish our men and women nothing but the best, I still believe I can protest against the leadership that put them in danger. Especially when their lives have been put at risk because our political leaders lied to us, and lied to the world. Someone here mentioned "treason". In my opinion, George W. Bush comitted treason of the highest order when he lied to Congress. For what it's worth, Congress never gave him the authority to attack anybody. Congress did give him the authority to ask for a UN resolution. Congress did give him the authority to send weapons inspectors to work within the UN resolutions in place. Bush decided on his own (or Rove decided for him, more likely) that we just had to "draw a line in the sand".

It really bears considering that the only cabinet member with any actual combat experience was also the only cabinet member against starting this war. Imagine: our Secretary for Defense has never served in any branch of the military. What moral right does he have to order men just a couple years away from being kids to their deaths? So if I ever feel like marching in the street, holding a "Down With Bush" sign, or a "No War For Oil" sign, I'll be darned if I let anybody tell me I'm aiding the terrs...
 
To Sindawe et al who asked for a declaration of war:

Just as a reminder, the U.N. Charter made "war" illegal unless it is done through the U.N. That's about when "police actions" became popular.

On the other hand, Congress passed a resolution giving the President the authority to remove Saddam from power, "by any means necessary." In modern politics, that's as close to a declaration of war as you can get, and everyone in Congress understands that.

So if you want to be ticked off at anyone, start with the U.N.
 
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