Pennsylvania: "Police: Children using dangerous lookalike guns"

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cuchulainn

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from the Pottstown Mercury

http://www.pottstownmercury.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=7563330&BRD=1674&PAG=461&dept_id=18041&rfi=6
Police: Children using dangerous lookalike guns

Sharon Stahl, [email protected] April 01, 2003

Amity Police Officer Victor Frederick holds a lookalike .40-caliber Beretta pellet gun in a chrome-like finish, left, and a real .40-caliber Beretta on the right in a black finish. Strickler photo.

AMITY -- Pellet and BB guns are becoming a big complaint for police who say they are as dangerous as real guns and are being used by children.
"They’ve become very popular, and kids that would traditionally shoot a long-barreled BB gun are now opting for these realistic looking handguns," said Amity Police Officer Victor Frederick.

What police have learned about these guns is compelling and disturbing.

The guns fire projectiles that range from 150 to 300 mph and can cause serious injury or even death.

Some of them are so realistic that police would have to hold them to determine whether they were real.

There have been quite a few instances where teenagers were driving their cars with the weapons inside.

"We’re looking in the cars, and we can’t tell if the gun is real or not," explained Frederick.

"Now we’re taking our weapons out and getting the teens out of the car at gun point because we think they have a weapon."

Some of the pellet/BB guns are marked with orange paint on the barrels or on the ends, but criminals have caught on and often paint the barrels or ends of a real gun with orange in order to fool police.

"It’s no indication to a police officer that the end of a barrel is orange, it doesn’t mean it’s a fake weapon," said Frederick.

Many of these pellet/BB guns aren’t being used in the back yard for target practice, Frederick said. Teens are stuffing them in their pants like a real gun and riding around in cars with them.

"If you’re using the weapons properly, it’s not going to be a problem," said Frederick. "There’s no reason to be carrying them around in a vehicle."

"They’re role-playing with these weapons because they look so real," he added.

Teens are learning at a young age how to be comfortable handling a real weapon.

Manufacturers say a person must be 18 years old to purchase the gun, but Frederick said his investigation revealed store clerks aren’t carding everyone buying these weapons.

"It’s possible for a child to have one and the parents don’t even know it," said Frederick.

According to the manufacturer of the BB guns, anyone under 16 should have adult supervision when using the gun.

"I really believe people are looking at these as toys," said Frederick.

During his investigation, Frederick obtained startling statistics.

There are two types of pellet/BB guns. One is spring activated with a forced air activation and one is used with a compressed air cartridge.

The spring-activated guns are less dangerous because they shoot at much lower velocities. The spring-loaded forced air guns shoot at 220 to 230 feet per second or 157 mph. The manufacturers say they’re dangerous at up to 150 yards away.

The Co2 compressed air guns shoot between 400 and 430 feet per second or 273 to 300 mph and are dangerous at distances of 250 to 400 yards away.

These weapons are shooting lead BBs, lead pellets, plastic BBs or pellets and something called bolts, which have a ¼-inch sharpened steel tip which is similar to a dart.

To penetrate skin, a projectile must travel 163 feet per second, and to break a bone, it must travel at 213 feet per second.

"These are not toys, these are weapons," said Frederick.

There are documented cases of suicides and homicides with pellet/BB guns.

"They may be a step down from gun powder bullet-type toys, but they’re weapons," he added.

One particular pellet/BB gun is an exact replica of a Smith and Wesson 9mm and cannot be differentiated from a real gun.

"This area sells out of them as quickly as they come in," said Frederick.

Paint ball guns are another dangerous weapon if not used properly.

Last year, an 11-year-old Amity girl lost a large percentage of her eyesight because a 10- and 11-year-old were using a paint ball gun without supervision. The boys shot the gun at the girl and the paint ball hit her in the eye.

"Between the force and the chemical in her eye, she’s partially blind," said Frederick.

Paint ball guns are designed to be used at paint ball facilities with safety equipment.

"A paint ball gun in a child’s hand, walking around the neighborhood, is not safe," said Frederick. "Many parents don’t understand just how dangerous they are."

He said these toys are dangerous and should be locked up. The answer to the problem is in educating people about the dangers.

Frederick will present his findings from his investigation, explain the dangers and provide safety tips for using these pellet/BB guns at the Amity Crime Prevention Network meeting. The program is called, "Toys or Weapons: Pellet, paint ball and BB gun safety."

"We’re encouraging parents to bring their teens or preteens with them and to bring their BB guns with them so we can determine which kind it is," said Frederick. "The only thing we’re asking is no long guns or paint ball be brought and no ammunition."

All pellet guns will be checked at the door to make sure they’re empty.

Safety will be taught so the teens and parents can learn the proper way to enjoy the guns.

Exeter Police will have a K-9 demonstration and Wal-Mart is donating $20 gift certificates which will be given to those who choose to turn these weapons over to Amity Police.

The meeting will be held at 7 p.m. April 9 at the Amity Fire Co. on Pine Forge Road just off Route 662. For further information, contact Officer Frederick at the Amity Township Police Department at 610-689-6002.

©The Mercury 2003
 
I just bought a 6mm airsoft spring pistol for indoor target practice. Had to fill out a bunch of stuff (electronically), show ID, etc even though I'm in my mid twenties. Didn't feel too bad because my brother is in his mid thirties and had to do likewise.

These aren't quite "toys" but not quite weapons either. A shot to the eye can injure. A near contact shot to exposed skin can injure. Haven't shot myself with one and don't intend to.

As for the gun itself (crosman walther P99):

Bad: Sights need work and but I have the approximate sight picture I need now, so my accuracy is improving drastically. There are some sharp plastic edges on the gun and I have gotten bit by the sights and ejection port a couple times when my grip has slipped on cocking it. The BBs are yellow and part of the target is yellow, I'm sure you see the problem.

Good: I fired 400 "rounds" in the last two days for a total of $25 bucks for gun, BBs, and target. I can keep reusing everything although I suppose the BBs will eventually get deformed and lose accuracy. The target needs to be cleaned occasionally to work properly, but that just takes hot soapy water.

$25 for nigh-infinite living room target practice? Its pretty hard to beat.
 
Once again, this can be boiled down to the kid's parents not having a clue and not caring. Real gun or not, MY parents knew if I had one and what I was doing with it.

GT
 
I bought a Sig P-226 replica soft air type gun recently and the only thing that makes it different in appearance is a small orange ring at the muzzle.
If someone were drawing it on me, they would probaby get shot and that would be bad for the both of us. :(

In todays world of violent wackos, the last thing we need is toys that look like real guns.
 
and are dangerous at distances of 250 to 400 yards away.
At 400 yards? Maybe; if a BB rolled down a hill (to get that far) and you slipped on it.........and stumbled into a band saw.
One particular pellet/BB gun is an exact replica of a Smith and Wesson 9mm and cannot be differentiated from a real gun.
I guess that they send them to the FBI crime lab for six months of testing and examination to find out witch it is.
to break a bone, it must travel at 213 feet per second.
.......and weigh 1,000 times more than a BB.
There are documented cases of suicides and homicides with pellet/BB guns.
........yes, thousands. Usually by beating someone over the head with one.
"We’re encouraging parents to bring their teens or preteens with them and to bring their BB guns with them so we can determine which kind it is,"
Ma'am, this is CIA agent Smith in Quantico..........after extensive analysis we have determined with 75% certainty that it's a Daisey.
 
"If you’re using the weapons properly, it’s not going to be a problem," said Frederick. "There’s no reason to be carrying them around in a vehicle."
Well, unless of course you're driving to the place where you're going to use them properly...:rolleyes:

"They’re role-playing with these weapons because they look so real," he added.
Actually, it's not the looks so much as the very realistic handling (for me, at least).

MrAcheson -
These aren't quite "toys" but not quite weapons either. A shot to the eye can injure. A near contact shot to exposed skin can injure. Haven't shot myself with one and don't intend to.
The closest shot I've taken hit me in the neck from about 15 feet away (muzzle velocity for that particular gun is rated at ~250fps, IIRC). It left a welt, but didn't break the skin. Getting hit in the eye could very easily cause some damage; wearing eye protection while skirmishing is absolutely essential.

Chris Rhines and I and a couple more friends on campus here use Airsofts for training, because they're the closest thing we can get to a real gunfight. Combined with lots of range time with real firearms, I am convinced that they are a very valuable skill-builder. Not to mention being really, really fun. :)
 
Yeah, we're getting used to quickly looking unsuspicious when hikers wander through our battlefield. Once we get a couple more people and some more practice, we're going to try to find some local cops to work with as an aggressor force. Or in lieu of that, find a frat house (with consent of the frat, of course) to practice clearing. :evil:
 
I suppose I should get used to this kind of stupidity, but I never do...

Teens are learning at a young age how to be comfortable handling a real weapon.
This is the real issue. Can't have those kids actually learn about handling weapons, now can we?

There are documented cases of suicides and homicides with pellet/BB guns.
I'd love to know more about this! Anyone?

- Chris
 
Just goes to show you how backwards and uncivilized PA really is. Unlike us here in New Jersey, who are already dealing with this new threat....

http://pressofatlanticcity.com/news/atlantic/032803PELLETGUN_M28.html

Pellet guns modeled after pistols and semiautomatic handguns would be banned under legislation introduced Thursday.

Bill co-sponsors Assemblymen Gary Guear, D-Mercer, and Peter J. Barnes, D-Middlesex, introduced the measure at a Statehouse press conference, citing concern about pellet-gun incidents in central New Jersey this year.

[commentary withheld in order to maintain the high road]
 
Chris,

One case occured in Cleveland a short while ago. Some kid shot and killed another kid with a pellet rifle. I believe it was suppoed to have been a prank. The victim was shot in the back. Now the City of Cleveland passed a law which says airguns are now firearms and are effectively banned within city limits.

I wonder if black powder pistols are considered firearms in Cleveland? Wouldn't that be rich if they aren't? You might not be able to carry a Crosman BB Gun, but a Colt Navy would be fine.
 
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