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Pennsylvanians might take note

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alan

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In a piece in 2 Dec Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Forum Section entitled This is not how the 2nd Amendment works, state Representative Daylin Leach, King of Prussia PA. (149th District) defended his recent votes in Judiciary Committee in favor of Rendell pushed/supported gun control proposals.

Interested parties might wish to read Rep.Leach's article, and possibly offer their own thoughts. The gentleman's e-mail address appears in the article, however for your conveniece it is as follows: [email protected] .

I expect, for those who do not have access to hard copies of today's P-G, that the aricle could be found on their web site, www.post-gazette.com . Given that it's not likely that the anti gunners will be "going away" any time soon, readers might wish to make their thoughts know on this matter, not to mention others of interest.
 
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Thank You Geek! Most Excellent. Hope you don't mind if I send it to others here in PA that will understand and enjoy it.
 
Forum: This is not how the Second Amendment works
Hold your fire until you understand that no constitutional right is absolute, says state REP. DAYLIN LEACH

Sunday, December 02, 2007
By Daylin Leach

As a member of the state House Judiciary Committee, I received a lot of e-mails urging me to vote against the gun control bills we considered last month. Many of these e-mails argued, in some form, that the governor's proposals violated the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The writers seemed to feel that the Second Amendment prohibits any restrictions on gun ownership. However, that is simply not how the Second Amendment works.

As a threshold matter, there are a number of technical issues dealing with whether the Second Amendment was intended to apply to individuals (I actually think it was). Further, not every federal constitutional right has been held by the Supreme Court to bind the states, and, in fact, the Second Amendment has not yet been incorporated into the 14th Amendment and applied to the states.

However, let's put those issues aside and assume that any law we pass in Pennsylvania must pass Second Amendment muster.

The Second Amendment, like the First (and all other parts of the Bill of Rights), is not absolute. The First Amendment protects your right of free speech. But you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater because there is a public safety issue. You can say you are for or against the war, but not while standing with a sign in the passing lane of the turnpike. You generally can't slander someone. You can't publish CIA secrets in a book or claim the chewing gum you invented cures cancer, etc. There are dozens of restrictions on speech.

Constitutional law is never absolute. When someone asserts that their constitutional rights have been infringed upon, the courts employ a balancing test to evaluate the law in question. They measure how much a law infringes on a right and balance that against how important the state's interest is in that law.

If a fundamental constitutional right is affected, the court uses what it calls a "strict scrutiny test." In order to survive a constitutional challenge, the law must serve a "compelling" state interest and the infringement on the right must be minimal and as narrowly tailored as possible to serve that interest.

The Second Amendment offers two general rights: The right to keep (meaning own) and bear (meaning carry) arms. But that does not mean states can't regulate in either of these areas. In fact, they do all the time. You can constitutionally be prohibited from owning a stolen gun, or a grenade launcher, or any gun if you have a criminal record. You can be prohibited from carrying a gun into a prison, an elementary school or a courtroom.

Last month, we voted down two bills dealing with guns. The first would have required a person to report the loss or theft of a gun they owned. The second would limit the number of guns a person could purchase to one per month. People can argue about the merits of these bills from a policy perspective, but there is clearly no constitutional impediment to either bill.

The two rights spelled out in the Second Amendment do not bestow a constitutional "right" not to report a lost or stolen gun. There is nothing in the wording of the amendment that even arguably says that.

One-gun-per-month is a restriction on ownership and thus does trigger a constitutional question. However, applying strict scrutiny to that law, it easily survives. The state's interest in preventing criminal violence is well established to be "compelling." These bills are tailored specifically to go after criminal straw-purchasers who sell guns illegally to those who could not legally get them. They do not target legitimate, law-abiding gun owners who will be unaffected by the law. (I supported both bills.)

Under one-gun-per-month, an infringement on the right to own a gun does exist, but is so minimal as to be virtually non-existent. A married couple could buy 24 guns per year. A restriction on your right to buy your 25th gun in one calendar year does not come close to infringing significantly on the underlying right. Even if one-gun-per-month becomes law, you will still be able to keep and bear arms, lots of them.

The fact is that the Second Amendment does not prohibit passage of any law that happens to have the word "gun" in it. It allows the state to pass reasonable restrictions related to public safety, so long as they still respect and preserve the underlying right to have a gun to protect your home or to hunt.

Overcoming false impressions about the nature and scope of the Second Amendment will allow us to actually consider legislation on its merits, which will be good for public safety and gun owners alike.
First published on December 2, 2007 at 12:00 am
 
"...and preserve the underlying right to have a gun to protect your home or to hunt."

Well, well. I didn't know that the Second Ammendment was a game management provision. Golly, gosh, geee. I guy learns something new every day.
Mauserguy
 
Great, so when we do start outlawing,,, errm I mean 'regulating' some pesky oraganized religions.

Can we get rid of Muslims?

Protastants?

Catholics?

I mean, as long as we leave 'some' organized religons intact, then the spirit of the constitution is alive.
 
Can we get rid of Muslims?

Protastants?

Catholics?

Ya know, that raises my hackles some, but if you mull it over it's a good point.

Not that you could outlaw them, but if the state's interest runs against them, it'd follow that banning their practice in public wouldn't infringe on anyone's right to *be* what they want to be..

man, this whole thing stinks.
 
One-gun-per-month is a restriction on ownership and thus does trigger a constitutional question. However, applying strict scrutiny to that law, it easily survives.

Well, it did not easily survive the recent vote! Unfortunately, with people like Daylin Leach in government, it keeps coming back like a vampire whose stake wasn't driven in far enough. :mad:

And another thing...

Right to Bear Arms
Section 21.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

This is from the PA Constitution. I think I am going to write Mr. Leach about this as well.
 
But you can do all those things that he implies you can't. I can walk into a theater and yell fire, they don't require me to wear a muzzle or tape my mouth shut before I enter. I can protest in the center of a highway waving any sign that I desire, the government doesn't restrict sign making material or have devices that disable the ability for me to stop my car along the highway and get out.

The difference is that I am responsible for any consequences of these actions. I am libel for injuries if someone is trampled in a theater if I maliciously yell fire when there isn't one.

We should also be allowed to own and carry arms without prior restrictions, but be held accountable for any criminal actions that we may commit with that specific arm.

That is the difference in what this government lawyer suggests with second amendment regulations and regulating other rights, restricting the right itself (gun control) versus punishing for the actions of the abuse of the right (yelling fire in a theater). Big difference in my eyes!!!
 
Letter to Leach

This is the first draft of a letter I just wrote to send to Mr. Leach. I am posting it here for anyone who wants to offer suggestions, spot errors, etc, before I send it.

Dear Mr. Leach

I am a resident of Pennsylvania, although I am not represented by you specifically. However, I am writing because of things you are doing which have the potential to affect my life and the lives of my family. I just finished reading your article, This is Not How the Second Amendment Works. After reading that article, there are some things I would like to communicate to you as a concerned resident of this Commonwealth.

While I admire your zeal and desire to see the amount of crime reduced, I think you are going about it in a way that is not going to be productive. Even if you had managed to enact the one gun a month law, who would it really penalize? There are already laws on the books to deal with straw purchases, so that is covered by law. Honest gun owners are not going to sell guns without observing the laws already on the books and dishonest people are not going to observe those laws. So what effect does one more law have? The law puts a needless and ineffective restriction on those of us who are obeying the law. Why not try telling women that they can only buy one pair of shoes a month, or teenagers that they can only buy one video game a month? After all, no one really needs that many shoes or video games. You can only wear one pair of shoes at a time, or play one game at a time, right?

With regard to the proposed law that would force gun owners to report stolen guns within a set period of time, you take the position that if someone is against this law, then they are against reporting stolen firearms. That is not a valid correlation that one can make, and I speak from personal experience. In 1984 my wife and I, who were newly married, were moving from an apartment to our first house. Being poor newlyweds without a lot of money or possessions, we enlisted friends and family to help us move. During the course of that move, my 12 gauge shotgun was misplaced in a pile of packing blankets and returned along with the truck, unbeknownst to me. To make a long story a little shorter, I ended up filing a missing weapon report with the local police. The happy ending to the story is that the gun turned out to be safely locked up in the office of the truck company’s owner.

But let’s say the law you wanted was in effect. Things could have been a lot worse for me. Let’s say that I just waited until the next business day (Monday) to contact the owner, assuming he probably found my gun when the truck was returned. I would have waited beyond the mandatory reporting period allowed by your new law, and by definition would have been a criminal, whether the gun was found or not. There is too much slop room in your law to allow for the criminalization of honest citizens. There are too many people in positions of authority who would use such a law to persecute (sic) gun owners whenever the opportunity arose. And it would still do nothing to quell the flow of guns through the hands of dishonest people. If you want to control crime, you need to control criminals, not the tools they use. Criminals have been with us since the beginning of time, long before guns came into use. But making a whole list of other people criminal because of small technicalities only makes things worse for all of us.

Finally, while you made the comments you made in your article in the light of the U.S. Constitution, you may have forgotten one other item that is standing in your way, the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Article 21 reads as follows:

Right to Bear Arms
Section 21.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

The language of this statement is even simpler to read and understand than the language of the Second Amendment. Even the lawyers should be able to understand it without twisting it around and standing it on its head. There are already plenty of laws to deal with criminals Mr. Leach. Please go about the business of dealing with them, and leave the law abiding residents of this Commonwealth free from even more governmental intrusion. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Sincerely,

Pennsy Plinker
 
He did write back to me. Basically, he defended the notion that limiting handgun purchases to one a month would take them out of the hands of felons....

He was quick to respond, friendly, and to the point. Still, I don't agree.
 
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