Perfect Packing Pistol Revisited

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leeroy71

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I just reread a PPP thread. What is it that some folks don't understand about the term Perfect Packing Pistol, as defined by J. Taffin?

PPP doesn't mean Perfect Pocket Pistol. Nor, does it mean Perfect Packing Auto. Although "pistol" generically refers to autos.:scrutiny:

Yes autos can be applied to PPP. But Mr Taffin is mostly a single action guy.
So I believe he is refering to the type of revolver he described so clearly.

Don't mean to rant. But really, an auto as a PPP? They don't seem to fit the spirit of the term.
BTW- No disrespect to auto fans. I own autos and love them. They just aren't PPP, per se.
 
I just reread a PPP thread. What is it that some folks don't understand about the term Perfect Packing Pistol, as defined by J. Taffin?
Click to expand...

If you had a link to the thread or the definition of a PPP, the rest of your post would probably make more sense.
 
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I don't see why autos can't be perfect packing pistols for some. Nothing is going to be perfect for everyone, or for every application.

I carry a compact 1911 in .45acp, and that's a perfect packing pistol for me. At one time I carried a G26... That was a perfect packing pistol. Even my 4.25" 1911 is a perfect packing pistol in some situations. For a very short time I had a S&W 37-2. That was a perfect packing revolver. It's all relative.

The "spirit of the term" perfect packing pistol isn't meant to apply to everyone, nor is it meant to lift one gun above all others for this one purpose. It's a descriptive, but not an absolute.
 
And here I thought it referred to what gun to pack in your suitcase. :eek:

Pack up your troubles in your old kit bag and smile, smile, smile.

John
 
Rail Driver, you are absolutely right. I should have mentioned that myself. I believe John Taffin may have said as much himself.

I do think snubbies do not apply. Nor do pocket autos.
 
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Don't have the quote in front of me but Taffin basically defines the PPP as a handgun comfortable on the hip all day, a 4 to 5 inch barrel so it doesn't get in the way when sitting or moving, accurate enough and of a caliber powerful enough for your needs, and reliable. For Taffin that means a single action revolver. I have to agree.

I suppose the caliber could vary for each person, anything from 22lr up to 45 Colt or more. I have three I feel would qualify: a first model Single-Six, a flattop Blackhawk in 357 magnum, and a new model Vaquero in 45 Colt.

While single action revolvers are my preference, I can imagine someone preferring a S&W Model 10 (or any K-frame), a Ruger GP100, or a CZ75b in 9mm. Of course, they would be wrong :neener: but it is their choice.

Jeff
 
If you're going to "revisit perfect packing pistols," then simply chastise folks in another thread because they did not understand Taffin's definition, it would make sense to repeat that definition here.

Otherwise, you should've posted your lament in the original thread.

Just sayin'.
 
Thanks for the links, at least now I have some idea what the OP was referring to!

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of this thread is, though:

leeroy71 said:
Don't mean to rant. But really, an auto as a PPP? They don't seem to fit the spirit of the term.
Click to expand...

The definition or "spirit" of a PPP (seems to be the original definition) from the top link supplied by 336A:

To fit my definition of a "packin" pistol a handgun must be a revolver or semi-automatic that is relatively light in weight; have a barrel with a minimum of 4" and a maximum of 5 1/2" easy to holster; and especially be chambered in a caliber that can be depended on to do the job. The caliber will, of course, change according to the locale of each shooter.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a 1911 Commander, 1911 Government Model, or any of about half a dozen Glocks to me! ;)
 
Even after reading the article I'm not sure what Taffin is really getting at. The only criteria seems to be that it shouldn't have a ten inch barrel, and must be worn on the hip. Ummm, OK...
 
leeroy71 said:
I just reread a PPP thread. What is it that some folks don't understand about the term Perfect Packing Pistol, as defined by J. Taffin?
Click to expand...

I don't think "they" are the ones confused....

PPP doesn't mean Perfect Pocket Pistol. Nor, does it mean Perfect Packing Auto. Although "pistol" generically refers to autos.:scrutiny:
Click to expand...

Taffin thinks a semi-auto in .38 Super, .45 acp and 10mm ARE Perfect Packing Pistols and says so in the first article link provided in Post #8:
To fit my definition of a "packin" pistol a handgun must be a revolver or semi-automatic that is relatively light in weight; have a barrel with a minimum of 4" and a maximum of 5 1/2" easy to holster; and especially be chambered in a caliber that can be depended on to do the job. Viable factory calibers for packin pistols are .38 Super and .45 ACP in semi-autos; probably the 10mm should also be included[/Viable factory calibers for packin pistols are .38 Super and .45 ACP in semi-autos; probably the 10mm should also be included...

Yes autos can be applied to PPP. But Mr Taffin is mostly a single action guy.
So I believe he is refering to the type of revolver he described so clearly.
Click to expand...

Why would you believe that when he specifically allows for the aforementioned autos?

Don't mean to rant. But really, an auto as a PPP? They don't seem to fit the spirit of the term.
BTW- No disrespect to auto fans. I own autos and love them. They just aren't PPP, per se.
Click to expand...

Again, Taffin, who originally coined the term, specifies that semi-autos chambered in .38 Super, .45 acp and 10mm do, indeed, fit his definition.

Looks like you're arguing with the originator of the term about what he really meant....
 
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I guess Taffin lives in a rural area where carrying a gun openly doesn't bother anyone. Too bad we don't all live in such a world.
The best gun I've found to cover most of my needs is a .357 SP-101 with a 3" barrel, but even that isn't perfect. While I'm sure the single action Taffin describes would be fine for woods carry and adequate for defense in the hands of a trained shooter, single actions are slow to reload and I don't need hard cast 260 grain bullets - and the excessive penetration they bring with them - for my self defense needs. I use JHP's not only because they are generally more effective, but also to minimize the danger of overpenetration.

Overall, it isn't what people don't get about the concept. It's that the concept isn't useful to a great many people who carry guns often.
 
"Don't mean to rant. But really, an auto as a PPP? They don't seem to fit the spirit of the term.
BTW- No disrespect to auto fans. I own autos and love them. They just aren't PPP, per se."

Taffin also includes double action revolvers in his article. He states that for all-around use in 357 Magnum the S&W Model 19 is his choice.

Sorry Pard but I guess you didn't get the support you were looking for.
 
Quote:
"I spend much of my time "packing" the long barreled handguns, but they are not real PACKIN' PISTOLS. To fit my definition of a "packin" pistol a handgun must be a revolver or semi-automatic that is relatively light in weight; have a barrel with a minimum of 4" and a maximum of 5 1/2" easy to holster; and especially be chambered in a caliber that can be depended on to do the job. The caliber will, of course, change according to the locale of each shooter.

Viable factory calibers for packin pistols are .38 Super and .45 ACP in semi-autos; probably the 10mm should also be included but I have not seen one yet and it is too new to tell if it is really as good as it should be. Nine em-ems need not apply. In sixguns we can choose from .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, and .454 Casull. I would also include the .44-40 and .45 Auto Rim for those who are so inclined and willing to reload both of these old timers with 200-250 grain semi-wadcutter Keith-type bullets at 900 fps. or more.

I have some definite ideas on the best packin' pistols for each of the above calibers and share my preferences with the hope of hearing from other Shootists as to what they consider the best sidearms. Let's look at these by caliber."
John Taffin

Unquote.

Not looking for support. Only stating CC handguns and PPP are not the same animal. According to Taffin's criteria.

One could say a PPP is closer to a hunting handgun. One you could use for SD
if you had to. And plink targets of oppertunity.

Now if your CC gun fits this niche for you, great. PPP is a never ending search anyway. So lighten up. No one's dissing your choices.
 
I take his general description to mean "general purpose woods guns."

The gun you'd carry afield when you don't expect to use it, but want it to be able to handle any reasonable task, should one come up.

To me, this includes full size semi-autos 9mm and up (special niche for 10mm) and .357, .41, .44 Special/Magnum and .45 Colt revolvers with 4-6 inch barrels.

I agree with Taffin that it's fun to pursue the "perfect" gun for this role.
 
Mr. Taffin is a fine writer and very knowledgeable of firearms but his opinion is still just his opinion for a PPP, to broad of a field to create an absolute opinion that some believe we all should follow.
 
I've read Taffin's pieces a couple of times and still have no idea what he's getting at. Accordingly, I find it difficult to work up outrage towards those who are confused by his category.
 
I think something to keep in mind is first and foremost John Taffin is a gun nut and that the real underlying theme with the pursuit of the PPP is obtaining another gun that may have some percieved advantage over the ones you already have.
It's how a guy ends up with multiple Blackhawks in various calibers, a few SAAs both clones and Colts, 1911s in 38 super,10mm and 45acp and a bunch of DA Smiths, Colts and Rugers. Even though I know damn good and well any one of them will do every thing I really need to do with a handgun.;)
 
mavracer said:
I think something to keep in mind is first and foremost John Taffin is a TOOL nut and that the real underlying theme with the pursuit of the PPT is obtaining another TOOL that may have some percieved (sp) advantage over the ones you already have.
It's how a guy ends up with multiple WRENCHES in various SIZES, a few BOX END, both CRAFTSMAN and SNAP-ON.

SCREWDRIVERS in PHILLIPS FLAT BLADE and TORX and a bunch of SOCKETS IN METRIC, SAE AND DEEP.

Even though I know damn good and well any one of them will do every thing I really need to do with a HAMMER ;)
Click to expand...

Sounds a little ludicrous this way, doesn't it. (doesn't it?)

Yet, it's the exact same concept.
 
Yet, it's the exact same concept.
Click to expand...
Not really a handgun is only one type of tool. Had I said
I think something to keep in mind is first and foremost John Taffin is a outdoor tool nut and that the real underlying theme with the pursuit of the PPT is obtaining another Tool that may have some percieved advantage over the ones you already have.
It's how a guy ends up with multiple knives in various lengths, a few multi tools both leatherman and clones, rope in .355 dia,.400dia and .452dia and a bunch of camp axes, saws and flashlights. Even though I know damn good and well any one of them will do every thing I really need to do with a handgun.
Click to expand...
then it'd be the exact same concept and just as ludicrous.:neener:
 
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