Permit to Carry holder shoots, kills suspect who shot trooper in AZ, saving troopers life

[Deaf Smith]

When only the cops have guns you have a police state. When the citizens are armed you have a Democratic nation. But what do we have when the Liberals own our news media?

They don't own them all (yet) and if we are wise we should start buying some of them BACK (or at least not financing them.) Way to many conservative young folk don't want to go into communications in colleges. Plus most media folks are somewhat narcissist. Conservatives, especially religious ones, tend to shy away from the seven deadly sins.

And when the populace own weapons, it's not a democratic nation. It's just a FREE ONE. Kind of hard to step on someone who can FIGHT BACK. Most tyrants don't like it when their 'subjects' can fight back. They don't like it at all!

Deaf

 

[wally]

This story has made the general news media, Houston Chronicle carried it this morning towards the back of "section A". Didn't mention anything about a concealed carry license, but did for some reason mention Arizona's "lax" gun laws and that they have a 3rd party lethal force intervention law.

 

[salt&battery]

The truth?

Beliefs in keeping with the origins of this republic?

I dunno, just the first two that popped into my mind.

yes the media displayed tons of truth with their pre election polls and BS stories about Trump. I was overwhelmed with truth

 

[Browning]

yes the media displayed tons of truth with their pre election polls and BS stories about Trump. I was overwhelmed with truth

Reading comprehension. You might want to read the quote I tagged in my post again.

He asked 'What do we have?'.

The idea of truth doesn't enter into the media's mind.

 

[Browning]

Apologies to the OP for the slight detour caused here:

Speaking of "fake news"...You throw out this little news story in this thread, which by my reading has zero correlations to the topic at hand, so now I'd like to learn more about it.

Please provide a link that supports this incident.

I'm pretty sure Dog Soldier was talking about this story. Didn't see any mention of two officers shooting with AR's, but it does involve a man killed in an officer involved shooting after he stole a gun from a gun store. If I remember right that's DS's neck of the woods (Wyoming).

http://fox17online.com/2016/09/08/man-shot-and-killed-by-wyoming-police-officer-after-gun-theft/

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/local/wy...lls-man-suspected-of-stealing-a-gun/315383854

Only thing that came up and I have some pretty spectacular Google-fu.

 

[OC-Trainer]

Thanks, @Browning. I saw those.

Besides no mention of the ARs, It states that the suspect died from a single gunshot wound.

The autopsy confirmed Idris died from a single gunshot wound,

He stated that the coroner stopped counting out "26 holes."

We had a fellow from Louisiana last year try to hold up our Local Gun Store. He came in with a 30-06 rifle demanding a handgun and ammunition. He fired 2 rounds narrowly missing an employee.
He ran out side where 2 deputies armed with AR 15 rifles were waiting. The Mexican cafe across the street lost most of their windows. The felon was hit so many times the County Corner stopped counting at 26 holes. Yep, those high capacity magazines are deadly.

In fact, I searched high and low for the incident that he referenced. Came up with nothing.

@Dog Soldier

Please help us out here and provide us with a link to this story.

 

[salt&battery]

Reading comprehension. You might want to read the quote I tagged in my post again.
it is hard to decipher when one writes in riddles. batmans sidekick Robin would have understood it
He asked 'What do we have?'.

The idea of truth doesn't enter into the media's mind.

 

[salt&battery]

Reading comprehension. You might want to read the quote I tagged in my post again.
when one writes in riddles makes it hard to decipher . batmans sidekick Robin would have understood it
He asked 'What do we have?'.

The idea of truth doesn't enter into the media's mind.

 

[Browning]

when one writes in riddles makes it hard to decipher . batmans sidekick Robin would have understood it

You don't have to wear tights, punch bad guys to 'Ka-pow' over flashes or be the Boy-Wonder to read what was quoted. You just have to take the time to read it.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I don't think this has anything to do with "suicide by COP". He shot the cop and was wrestling with him. People who want to force police to kill them usually just brandish.

Mike

 

[Aim1]

I don't think this has anything to do with "suicide by COP". He shot the cop and was wrestling with him. People who want to force police to kill them usually just brandish.

Mike

So why didn't he keep shooting until the cop was dead? Was his gun jammed? Did he run out of bullets?


Who knows what he was thinking. Perhaps if he thought he killed/wounded gravely this cop the others would be sure to shoot him rather than use less than lethal attempts at capturing him.

 

[SilentStalker]

I don't know all of the facts of the situation here but it seems like shooting a suspect in which was holding a police officer might be a bad idea. I mean if he was sitting on top of the officer and slamming his head in the ground or whatever then its highly possible he could have hit the officer instead of the suspect.

 

[HoosierQ]

From the link in the OP...

Also on January 12, the New York Times editorial board wrote against expanding the opportunities for armed citizens to be armed for self-defense. The paper claimed, “The grim truth is that concealed-carry permit holders are rarely involved in stopping crime.”


When will these people ever stop? It boggles my mind that after all that has happened recently that this level of ignorance and incompetency isn't at the very least caught before it goes to print.

Well, sadly, I think it is rare. There seems to be a lot of dynamic thought around the responsibility one takes on when one fires one's weapon. Where will the bullet go? I this scenario, even though the good Samaritan was justified and. so far as we know, lawful, had that bullet traveled down range and struck someone else, the responsibility lies with the shooter. Cautions such as this come from our community, and rightly so...this isn't northwest Pakistan or Somalia. But how many among us...our community...would actually draw their weapon to save someone else if their own life were not in danger? And under what circumstances?

I say all this only for one reason: liberal or not, the media is probably correct in that we in the CCW community aren't making a large active impact on stopping crime. I often wonder just how much of an impact we are making indirectly. I mean, one doesn't hear of people shooting other people in Rural King!!! I am convinced that in this example, the sureness that many people in such a place will be armed prevents felonious mischief.

 

[TwoFirstNames]

I am not defending the NY Times at all here, but they are generally pretty careful about not printing things that are completely untrue (well, maybe only mildly careful these days, the media standards for "facts" and "truth" do seem to be dropping across the board).
Possible that the NY Times editorial board is just playing semantics. When a CCW holder pulls a gun and the attempted crime is stopped before it starts, that is "preventing" crime rather than "stopping" crime.
Also possible they are pointing out that CCW holders are rarely involved in stopping crime because the number of crimes they are involved in is a pretty small percentage of the total number of crimes (just because there are relatively few CCW in the total population and CCW holders tend to pay more attention to their surroundings and thereby avoid problems).
Or, they could actually believe what they appear to be insinuating.
Either way, good on the guy who helped someone else in a tough spot. This country could use more people willing to help out a stranger in need.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

NYT response: it (defense by permit holder) doesn't happen often enough, so the government should make sure it can't happen at all.
What? Are they thinking?

 

[Realist]

NYT response: it (defense by permit holder) doesn't happen often enough, so the government should make sure it can't happen at all.
What? Are they thinking?

From a 2013 CDC study ( subcontracted out to the Institute of Medicine and National Research Council): " Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008."
Obviously not all of these were shooting events, merely the sight of an armed citizen was enough to end the dispute but there are ample examples of DGU.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

But how many among us...our community...would actually draw their weapon to save someone else if their own life were not in danger? And under what circumstances?

I can't express how much I truly hope that none of us are ever put in any situation like that and have to make that call. BUT- If the officer actually asked for help as the story says, I feel I would have a duty to act. Even if he didn't ask for help, those are some pretty clear lines that were drawn and crossed by the oxygen thief.

Curious though more of an afterthought. I wonder where the good guy was from? I know he was in Arizona on the way to California. Was he from California? If not, pretty risky taking a gun into the state. Did his state CCW cover him in Arizona? If so, why was his gun not on him and he had to go back to his car to get his gun? The amount of time it takes to return to your car and get a gun if even next to your seat, forget if it was in a locked case, could have been deadly to the officer who was getting his head pounded on the pavement. AND if he wasn't from the PRK, was his gun California compliant? (Hmm... California with a K came up as ********** in the post) The report said another motorist had reported being shot at- why did the PD not have better information for the officer as he pulled up?

I only ask these questions as an outside observer and I am grateful that he was there to save the officer. I was just thinking that if it was me- what would I do. Either way, I am not trying to stir anything up, I was just curious. The GG is a hero as far as I am concerned. The details aren't important.

 

[MarkDido]

NYT response: it (defense by permit holder) doesn't happen often enough, so the government should make sure it can't happen at all.
What? Are they thinking?

It't the Slimes.

They weren't

 

[Havok7416]

I have seen this on Fox News a number of times. But you are not likely see it any where else. Now if the Felon had a CCW it would be all over the Liberal Media.

You mean like here?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...-recalls-fear-confusion/ar-AAlQy1m?li=BBnbcA1

 

[Dog Soldier]

Thanks for that report very good. I know the area where that happened.

 

[threefeathers]

Arizona is a great State.

 

[OC-Trainer]

Thanks for that report very good. I know the area where that happened.

Amazing. You pop back up in this thread and do not even address the questions asked of you? Do not even back up the outrages statements you made earlier?

Is that what we are doing here now, just fabricating stories? @Dog Soldier

 

[danez71]

.........Now?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Yeah, I don't know where some of y'all get that this wasn't a story covered by major news organizations. I saw it on CNN. If you google the story, it has been covered by all the major news organizations and picked up in numerous local markets as well.

I have to agree with the comment above. I haven't seen anything on this shooting being by a CCW Permit Holder. It was just a motorist with a gun in his car. The gun wasn't even being carried on his person. He had to go back and get his gun from his vehicle after the officer requested/accepted query for help.

Citizens with guns coming to the aid of cops is a rare event. First, cops usually do NOT want any assistance until their situation is completely untenable, as was the case here. Otherwise, they tend to see citizens with guns showing up as liabilities to their safety. They don't know the motivation of the citizen. They don't know if the citizen is really there to help. They don't know the skill of the citizen. They fear the citizen will get in the way and be more of a hindrance than a help.

I don't know all of the facts of the situation here but it seems like shooting a suspect in which was holding a police officer might be a bad idea. I mean if he was sitting on top of the officer and slamming his head in the ground or whatever then its highly possible he could have hit the officer instead of the suspect.

Well, some people really are that bad of a shot and part of the reasons officers typically do not solicit help from armed citizens unless the situation is absolutely dire. However, the notion that it is "highly possible" that the officer would have been hit in the situation you described and that was apparently what was going on is not accurate. In fact, it is more of an ideal situation as the officer is most apt to be out of the way and the suspect is going to be higher than the officer, presenting a more distinct and stable target. They won't be spinning or turning, or moving laterally any distance, or folded around one another as in situations where they are on their feet and struggling.

 

[Aim1]

Update:

Apparently the suspect was an illegal immigrant. Not a shock. The good samaratin isn't named and doesn't say if he has a permit to carry.




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4126502/Mexican-drug-addict-shot-dead-hero-passerby.html

PICTURED: Mexican illegal immigrant drug addict who was shot dead by hero passerby after his 'ambush-style attack' on Arizona state trooper

16 January 201

Arizona has a 'defense of third person' law that allows someone to use deadly force against another who is threatening or injuring a third person. It was not unusual that the passing driver was armed in this gun-friendly state with loose regulation.