PETA vs NRA Woldwide debate

[farad]

Wayne LaPierre was terrible in the debate he did in England. Heston was much better when he went there.

One can hope he doesn't let the banners set the tone of the debate and accept the 'sporting arms' arguement, but unfortunately that's not the history of the NRA.

 

[Justin]

both organizations are equally insane.

for every peta act the nra has one of its own and vice versa. i would still side with the NRA but will never be a member.

No, wrong.

If the NRA were even half as nutty as PeTA, do you have any idea how many dead people there would be?

Last time I checked, the NRA doesn't tacitly endorse those who conduct acts of domestic terrorism, nor funnel funding to people known to toss bombs and burn down buildings.

I have never once seen the NRA call for the restrictions on the civil rights of other human beings, which is far more than can be said of PeTA.

Nor, as far as I know, do they advocate "total animal liberation" and then turn around and surreptitiously kill scores of animals using methods not approved by any governing body.

 

[solareclipse]

Neither do they seem to have any compassion for their fellow memberbase.

Sure, i will go with their lobbying being in the high levels of the government so it goes behind the scenes with peta collecting the wackos off the streets for their rallies. In the end, if the roles were reversed wouldn't nra fanboys also jump out with their guns in the street saying it's their right to do and nobody can take away their liberties? I've little doubt.

All groups have their extreme partisans and trying to claim anything but that is simply a fallacy. Everybody knows it. It comes down to group management and how they convey themselves ultimately encouraging or discouraging odd actions.

 

[JohnBT]

"Everybody knows it."

Okay, if you say so.

What's a fanboy?

I'm 55. Can I be a fanboy, too?

John

 

[Camp David]

People Eating Tasty Animals!

Best PETA story I ever heard concerned one PETA member in Minnesota who lived on a street and criticized some local hunters and protested outside their home... the very next day this woman couldn't find her pet cat! The following day she discovered a aluminum foil covered turkey tray on her front step... inside the foil-covered turkey tray was her cooked and stuffed cat, with all the trimmings! This PETA lady never made a peep again!

 

[CentralTexas]

.

"Best PETA story I ever heard concerned one PETA member in Minnesota who lived on a street and criticized some local hunters and protested outside their home... the very next day this woman couldn't find her pet cat! The following day she discovered a aluminum foil covered turkey tray on her front step... inside the foil-covered turkey tray was her cooked and stuffed cat, with all the trimmings! This PETA lady never made a peep again!"

HaHaHa That is so funny, I wish she had complained that the local gun range was disturbing her childrens sleep and she wanted it closed down. Then it would have been funnier when those whacko gun nuts killed her beloved children!
Even if it's true-
Do you really find it amusing that hunters in the story are portrayed as evil enough to kill a pet for sheer meanness?
CT

 

[CentralTexas]

Okay-

Let's work this one-

"If the NRA were even half as nutty as PeTA, do you have any idea how many dead people there would be?"

SUre there are some loons in PETA, but I prefer to rephrase as-
If the gun owners in America as a whole were as active/involved as the animal welfare crowd how many fewer gun laws would there be?

"Last time I checked, the NRA doesn't tacitly endorse those who conduct acts of domestic terrorism, nor funnel funding to people known to toss bombs and burn down buildings."

Not according to Democratic Underground!
I would hope if the gov't ever strips our 2A right they would though...

"I have never once seen the NRA call for the restrictions on the civil rights of other human beings, which is far more than can be said of PeTA."

What Civil Right does PETA have a problem with?
Here are a few quotes from the NRA infringing my 2A rights-

"We believe that the machine gun, submachine gun,
sawed off shotgun and dangerous and deadly weapons
could all be included in any kind of a bill.
And no matter how drastic, we will support it."
--NRA Executive Vice President Milton Reckord;
House Hearings on National Firearms Act, April/May 1934, at 81.


"The National Rifle Association has been in support of
workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its
very inception in 1871."
-— NRA Executive Vice President Franklin L. Orth
NRA's American Rifleman Magazine, March 1968, P. 22


"The NRA supported The National Firearms Act of 1934 which
taxes and requires registration of such firearms as machine
guns, sawed-off rifles and sawed-off shotguns. ... NRA support
of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd
bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which,
through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and
Federal Firearms Acts."
-—American Rifleman, March 1968, P. 22


"We think it's reasonable to support the federal Gun-Free School
Zones Act. ... We think it's reasonable to expect full enforcement
of federal firearms laws by the federal government. ... That's why
we support Project Exile -- the fierce prosecution of federal gun
laws...we think it's reasonable because it works. ... We only support
what works and our list is proud."
-—NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
Congressional Testimony, May 27, 1999
Hearing Before 106th Congress
House of Representatives
Committee On The Judiciary
Subcommittee On Crime
First Session

"Nor, as far as I know, do they advocate "total animal liberation" and then turn around and surreptitiously kill scores of animals using methods not approved by any governing body."

I still have seen no credible evidence PETA kills animals in their shelters using non approved euthenasia methods.
CT

 

[JohnBT]

"We believe that euthanasia is a kindness for dogs and cats who are born into a world that doesn’t want them, has not cared for them, and ultimately has abandoned them to be disposed of." - PETA site.

Killing is killing and PETA = hypocrites. Whether they use a needle or a .22 to the head is a moot point.

I was particularly saddened to see those PETA workers had dumped all those dead animals in a dumpster. They might be worse than hypocrites.

John

P.S. - Just in case somebody asks, here's one article:

PETA duo charged with 62 felonies

By Cal Bryant
AHOSKIE - In a story that first broke Thursday on the R-C News-Herald's website, there are more questions than answers of why a pair of animal rights activists would allegedly take part in something they adamantly oppose - unethical treatment of animals.

A month-long investigation into animal cruelty resulted in the arrests of a pair of PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) workers.

On Wednesday, the Ahoskie Police charged Andrew Benjamin Cook, 24, of 504 Tree Top Street, Virginia Beach, Va. and Adria Joy Hinkle, 27, of 1602 Claremont Ave., Norfolk, Va. with 31 felony counts each of animal cruelty and eight misdemeanor counts each of illegal disposal of dead animals.

An additional charge of illegal trespassing was later filed against both individuals.

Both were transported to the Hertford County jail, each under a $35,500 secured bond.

Ahoskie Police Chief Troy Fitzhugh said Cook and Hinkle posted bond prior to incarceration.

Yesterday (Friday), the pair made their first appearance in Hertford County District Court where Judge Rob Lewis set a July 19 court date.

"We've been investigating animal cruelty and illegal disposal of dead animals within our city for the last four weeks," Fitzhugh said. "Our investigators determined that these incidents were occurring every Wednesday for approximately one month."

During the month-long investigation, the exact number of dead dogs discovered in at least two commercial dumpsters in Ahoskie is not known, but it said to be in excess of 100.

The arrests came after law enforcement officials with the Ahoskie Police and Bertie County Sheriff's Office on Wednesday were able to observe a white panel van drive next to the commercial dumpster located behind Piggly Wiggly in Newmarket Shopping Center. A person in the van tossed several dark-colored bags in the dumpster before the van attempted to pull away.

At that time, a traffic stop was initiated on the van - a vehicle occupied by Cook and Hinkle.

The bags located in the dumpster contained 18 dead dogs, including one bag containing seven puppies. An additional 13 dead dogs were found in the van.

A license check revealed the van was registered to PETA in Norfolk, Va. It is confirmed that Cook and Hinkle are official representatives of the animal rights group.

PETA has suspended Hinkle in lieu of their own investigation. Cook remains actively employed with the Norfolk, Va. based organization.

Detective Sgt. Ed Pittman of the Bertie Sheriff's Office confirmed, through the county's Animal Control Officer, that Cook and Hinkle identified themselves as PETA representatives from Norfolk, Va.

"According to Barry (Anderson, Bertie's Animal Officer), the man and woman told him they were picking up the dogs to take them back to Norfolk where they would find them good homes," Pittman said.

Pittman added that as far as he knew, persons identifying themselves as PETA representatives had picked-up live dogs at the Bertie Animal Shelter for at least the last two months.

Anderson, also involved in Wednesday's surveillance and subsequent arrest, was able to positively identify nearly all of the dogs found in the dumpster as the ones picked-up just a few hours earlier on Wednesday by Cook and Hinkle.

Anderson noted that he collected some of the dogs found in the dumpster earlier in the day on Wednesday at various locations in Bertie County.

"Barry documents the animals as they are received at the animal shelter," Pittman noted.

Two of the 31 dogs were kept for an autopsy. The remainder were properly buried on Town of Ahoskie property.

Chief Fitzhugh praised the work of his lead investigator, Detective Sgt. Jeremy Roberts, as well as the outstanding cooperation between his agency and Bertie County Sheriff Greg Atkins and his investigators.

 

[LAR-15]

In a lot of countries guns are legal for hunting and not much else.

But I guess American gun owners don't care about that.

This is a WORLDWIDE debate, no?

If it gets Elmer Fudds in other countries to wake up, then it is good.

Yes I hunt.

 

[CentralTexas]

Are ya kidding?

"Killing is killing and PETA = hypocrites"

Where has PETA ever said it's wrong to kill animals rather than let them starve to death etc.? Or there would be no give on sustaining unadoptable dogs at the expense of others that could be saved? Without a 100 million dollars to take care of the unwanted & unadoptable what are the options? Hard times=hard choices. Their policy is sad but humane. If they had ever said they were 100% against animals dying under any and every circumstance yoou could use the hypocrite card.
As far as the 2 members dumping dead dogs into a dumpster what do you think the local vet does? Unless, like me you spend the $$ to have yours cremated. Yeah they didn't follow rules and they are out of work now...
I'm glad these perceived actions of wrongdoing against animals are so offensive to some here- I'm sure you have spayed/neutered your pets, voluntered at the shelter or donated $$.
CT

 

[CentralTexas]

I paid and watched the last debate

Ms. Peters comments were telling/chilling. I'll probably watch this one also. I fear that PETA etc. is being used as a fund raising canard/boogeyman though.
Every NRA/ILA email I get warns against PETA (or some other terror), seldom do I get any anti-hunting stuff in my email from animal welfare groups. When I do, it's anti-HUNTING not anti-guns. I do however believe that politics makes for strange bedfellows and I think the politicians/lobby to pass laws in America outlawing thiose under 18 to hunt is funded by anti-gun forces that know if kids aren't exposed to shooting early on we lose them to the opposite sex or the computer etc.
CT

 

[LAR-15]

Many anti hunters are anti gun liberals.

At least the one's Ive met, especially the one's that claim loud 'n' proud their vegans.

 

[pcf]

Central Texas,

First you post an article about HSUS succesful effort to shut down operations in the US that slaughter horses and bans the export of horses for slaughter.

The you post:

Where has PETA ever said it's wrong to kill animals rather than let them starve to death etc.? Or there would be no give on sustaining unadoptable dogs at the expense of others that could be saved? Without a 100 million dollars to take care of the unwanted & unadoptable what are the options? Hard times=hard choices. Their policy is sad but humane. If they had ever said they were 100% against animals dying under any and every circumstance yoou could use the hypocrite card.

It's okay to put dogs and cats down that are unadoptable and would otherwise starve or be a nuisance, but not horses? What kind of horses do you think were being sent to slaughter houses?

 

[CentralTexas]

.

Issue Five: Horses Will Be Left Starving To Death
Pros: Another argument used by slaughter supporters.

Cons: Each state has strong and enforceable anti-cruelty laws that are designed to stop irresponsible owners who desire to starve and abuse their animals.

Fact: Weak and selective law enforcement promotes animal cruelty. No law will solve the problem of irresponsible behavior, but laws can punish those who starve their horses if law enforcement decides to take action rather than turn their back to a situation.

Issue Six: There's No Place For All The Horses
Pros: "These are useless horses that no one wants. How else are you going to get rid of them?" From an email sent to the author.

Cons: In 1999 there were a total of 5.32 million horses in the Unites States, according to the National Agricultural Statistics Service. Current estimates place that figure at around 6.5 million in 2002. At 5.32 million, the 56,600 slaughtered in the US in 2001 represent ONE PERCENT of the current population. The amount slaughtered in 2002, 56,600, is down from 130,000 in 1996 and 345,000 in 1990, according to the United States Animal Health Association. Those horses have been absorbed into the current population.

A large number of equine rescues, clubs, riding associations, equine therapy facilities, retirement farms and other nonprofit organizations are more than capable of handling healthy horses or those with curable health problems. For more information see "What Do You Do When You Can No Longer Keep Your Horse?"
http://www.habitatforhorses.org/joincampaigns/proandcon.html

a lot of healthy horses are going there as well, pets,
http://www.freep.com/fun/food/qhorse5.htm
farm animals and probably some bred for meat. Would you buy meat for your french cafe that was in horrible shape? Even if most were wild horses that "may" starve, euthenasia is preferable to the slaughterhouse.
http://www.habitatforhorses.org/joincampaigns/slaughterhouse.html

 

[straightShot]

both organizations are equally insane.

for every peta act the nra has one of its own and vice versa. i would still side with the NRA but will never be a member.

It's amazing. Isn't that a special thing to say? Welcome to The High Road, and thanks for saying that I belong to an insane organization. As a member, I AM THE NRA. I appreciate your insight, your infinite wisdom, and I am glad that you will never join.

On the other hand, maybe I am insane. I take my kids shooting and obviously teach them the same sort of insanity. I also teach others to shoot and to carry a firearm for personal protection.

From a different angle, for everyone else, what sort of insane organization do all of these people come from who keep saying nasty things about the NRA here on The High Road? Lately, it's happening almost constantly. Doesn't anyone else here see the same thing?

The frequency of these attacks and the nasty comments are both increasing and alarming. Daily attacks are commonplace. We seem to let them occur because we assume that they are just gun enthusiasts posting their thoughts, as most of us are. I suspect that a portion of these people are trolls, however.

Certainly, not everyone registered on this board is pro-gun. It's an impossibility. Trolls, in whatever form, can and do slip in.

Therefore, I wonder whether these people hang around for a few days, months, or even longer and try to drive a wedge amongst gun owners. (It's inevitable that I must wonder these things since I belong to an insane organization and am probably insane, myself...)

I wonder why these posters don't spend any time posting nasty comments about Sarah B and her rich, anti-gun friends. I also wonder how they're so knowledgeable and well-versed about the NRA, our practices, our public debates, etc., when most card-carrying members know less than a fraction of the same information.

Heck, if they're not members, they don't even get a monthly NRA magazine to read. Knowing this, I wonder why they should even care what we do, let alone waste the time typing their anti-NRA rhetoric on this forum.

Why? What could be a plausible answer? It could very well be that they're not here for that reason. They have their anti-NRA agenda and must seize every opportunity to bash us. (Insane people can think up conspiracy theories pretty quickly.)

I know that I have a simple mind, and I think in simple terms. It's obvious, though, that as more and more gun owners keep reading anti-NRA garbage on this message board, the likelihood that the intent to insert doubt and disgust into the minds of otherwise unknowing gun owners and turn them against the NRA and each other is great.

Like I mentioned, a few trolls can infect many others. It doesn't even take the immense wealth of George Soros to post an anti NRA post on this forum.

It makes one think, even the insane ones such as myself.

 

[CentralTexas]

Yup,

Just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't out to get ya...

No, I bash the NRA and I send them my dues, along with the GOA etc.
I think the NRA has immense power I think many of us don't agree with their priorities (hunting or 2A), willingness not to compromise etc.
CT

 

[fallingblock]

BINGO! You got 'er, straightShot!

"Heck, if they're not members, they don't even get a monthly NRA magazine to read. Knowing this, I wonder why they should even care what we do, let alone waste the time typing their anti-NRA rhetoric on this forum.

Why? What could be a plausible answer? It could very well be that they're not here for that reason. They have their anti-NRA agenda and must seize every opportunity to bash us."
*********************************************************



'Activists', I definitely sense anti-gun 'activists'.



*********************************************************
"It's obvious, though, that as more and more gun owners keep reading anti-NRA garbage on this message board, the likelihood that the intent to insert doubt and disgust into the minds of otherwise unknowing gun owners and turn them against the NRA and each other is great.

Like I mentioned, a few trolls can infect many others. It doesn't even take the immense wealth of George Soros to post an anti NRA post on this forum."
*********************************************************



On the other hand, they're "projecting" again, just as such folks do with their firearms phobias.

Perhaps they honestly hope that we are as gullible and impressionable as they?


*********************************************************
"I think the NRA has immense power I think many of us don't agree with their priorities (hunting or 2A), willingness not to compromise etc."
*********************************************************


Vote in the NRA, stand for a position within the organization, lobby the board.

Just don't insist on shrill, do-nothing defeatism -

or you will become part of a self-fulfilling prophecy!



*********************************************************
"Would you buy meat for your french cafe that was in horrible shape? Even if most were wild horses that "may" starve, euthenasia is preferable to the slaughterhouse."
*********************************************************


Uh, DEAD is DEAD.

PETA-types have some strange concepts for a carnivore bestowed with beautifully functional canine teeth.

Is there honestly anything so outrageous about eating horses?

Folks around here are happy to carve up and campfire roast a horse.

Or a camel, or a donkey. Feral cats are regarded as a delicacy by some.

Macropod marsupials are a standby, and very lean and healthy meat, too.

 

[JohnBT]

"People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), with more than 850,000 members, is the largest animal rights organization in the world." - PETA Mission Statement www.peta.org

"One of the central beliefs shared by most animal rights activists is the belief that we should not harm any animal—human or otherwise." - PETA faq

"You may believe that animals should be killed, that black people should be enslaved, or that women should be beaten, but you don’t always have the right to put your beliefs into practice." - PETA faq


Good thing I can read.

I stand by my previous statements about PETA.

John

 

[Art Eatman]

I figure that if folks don't like the NRA's way of doing things, they oughta not join it; stay with GOA, CCRKBA or JFPO. Those three are hard-working pro-gun outfits. Bashing strikes me as an underwhelming display of something, but Grammaw won't let me say it.

PETA? When BossLady Ingrid Newkirk sez, "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy," I just figure her elevator doesn't get much past the mezzanine. When she calls for an end to medical testing with animals, MEGO. When she sez the owning of a pet is animal abuse, same-o, same-o. A farmer having a cow or a horse is "abuse". Duh? And her buddy at HSUS, Wayne Purcelle (Pacelle?) is just as loopy; first get rid of hunting, then get rid of fishing.

Sorry, but I don't even see why there is any "debate" on all this nonsense. I realize a lot of legislators don't know sheepdip from wild honey, but I'd think that THR folks would know better.

All members of the anti-gun and/or anti-hunting crowd are really good at disguising their intentions in fanciful, feel-good language, but the underlying goals never change. We went through years of the same style of lying propaganda from the Communists (and from Dr. Goebbels), and I'd think folks would have learned a little by now. Unfortunately, it looks like people still can only look at the face value of counterfeit garbage...

Art

 

[Robert Hairless]

"You may believe that animals should be killed, that black people should be enslaved, or that women should be beaten, but you don’t always have the right to put your beliefs into practice." - PETA faq

It's disturbing to see anyone equate human beings with animals. Such people have lost their way.

 

[roo_ster]

Quote:
"You may believe that animals should be killed, that black people should be enslaved, or that women should be beaten, but you don’t always have the right to put your beliefs into practice." - PETA faq


It's disturbing to see anyone equate human beings with animals. Such people have lost their way.

Such people are moral cripples...and by rights ought to be moral & social lepers.