Phillipines to arm citizens

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Wesker

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A little dated, but it's still good reading.
http://tinyurl.com/y3np8k

Philippines to arm civilians amid growing security threats
By Girlie Linao

dpa German Press Agency
Published: Tuesday October 31, 2006

Manila- Faced with escalating hostilities from communist rebels and a volatile Muslim insurgency in the south, the Philippine government is planning to recruit and arm civilians to help maintain peace and order in the country. Under the government's strategy, the armed civilian militias would become "force multipliers" in the fight against insurgency, terrorism and crimes by gathering intelligence, serving as back up to troops and conducting community patrols.

The plan brings new meaning to President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo's call for stronger cooperation between a vigilant public and government security forces.

"The authorities are on top of the situation, but they need the active support of the community to safeguard the perimeters of peace and order," Arroyo once said in discussing the need to tap civilians in the fight against threats to national security.

Security officials said the plan, which started in October, would help plug a deficit in the 120,000-strong military and 110,000-strong police force in the country and strengthen security in villages and towns, which suffer the most during attacks by rebels and terrorists.

But not everyone in the Philippines agrees.

Critics warned the arming of civilians could only escalate a spate of extra-judicial killings blamed on government security forces, and turn the country into "the wild, wild West."

"What does the government want to happen, that we all just take up arms and shoot each other?" a horrified Marie Hilao Enriquez, secretary general of the human rights group Karapatan, asked when told of the plan.

"This only indicates a breakdown of law and order in the country," she added. "This is an admission that they cannot govern. It is very dangerous to arm civilians because these paramilitary forces would only become potential human rights violators."

Enriquez also warned that with congressional elections scheduled in May 2007, the recruitment of civilian militias could be part of an attempt by the government to manipulate the polls, which would be crucial for Arroyo to maintain control of Congress.

There were armed paramilitary forces in the Philippines in the past, particularly during the regime of ousted dictator Ferdinand Marcos, who tapped militias to fight the communist rebellion.

But the civilian auxiliary forces were disarmed after they deteriorated into vigilantes and were blamed for some of the worst human rights violations during Marcos' 20-year-rule. Some of the militias became private armies of politicians and warlords.

Brian Yamsuan, assistant secretary of the Department of Interior and Local Government, said the Arroyo administration was taking note of previous problems and treading carefully in implementing the plan.

"Safety nets are a primordial part of this programme," he told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa in an interview. "We will train these volunteers that their primary role is to defend the republic, to defend their locality."

"Part of their training would be (respect for) human rights and we will try to make them apolitical," he added. "We don't want them to think that just because they were given weapons, they become goons of local politicans."

The military has already been authorized to recruit nearly 8,000 civilians who would be "trained, equipped" and formed into 90 companies as part of the plan.

The police on the other hand has been allowed to deputize village security officers, who would be armed by their local governments, to help in their operations.

The southern region of Mindanao, plagued by a communist insurgency, Islamic extremism and terrorism, is being eyed as a pilot area for the deployment of the armed civilian militias.

Government security forces are battling both communist rebels and al-Qaeda-linked Muslim militants in the strife-torn Mindanao, home to the country's Muslim minority.

Tensions between the military and the 12,000-strong Moro Islamic Liberation Front, the largest Muslim rebel group fighting for an independent state in Mindanao, have also been flaring up recently amid an impasse in peace talks with the government.

General Hermogenes Esperon, armed forces chief of staff, said the recruitment of militiamen would help implement Arroyo's order to wipe out the 37-year-old communist insurgency in the Philippines by 2010.

He said the civilian militias would become part of a "village defence" system that was necessary to reduce the communist rebels' current strength of 7,200 to an "inconsequential level."

"They (armed civilian volunteers) will be the stay-behind forces," he said. "They will secure their own community so the regular soldiers can move on to their next target."

For anti-crime advocate Martin Dino, who is also a village chieftain in a Manila suburban city, the government's plan to arm civilian volunteers and village security officers was long overdue.

He noted that with a government ban on civilians carrying firearms and stricter rules in acquiring gun licenses, "criminals are emboldened because they know that good citizens cannot fight back because they don't have arms."

Earlier in the month, one of Dino's village security officers - who was merely armed with a nightstick - was shot dead when he chased after a suspected robber.

"My officer would have had a chance if he had a gun," Dino said. "So I believe it is high time we give arms to civilian volunteers, but with proper training."

"Having a gun should not be a license to shoot anyone," he added. "The priority is self-defence, only use your weapon if your life is in danger while on duty. If you abuse this, you have to be punished, especially if you use your weapons for your own interests."
 
I like the article, but a few of the opinions were just... backwards. Don't arm the citizens against anyone, because then they might violate someone's rights? Uh, haven't governments been worse with that than citizens in general?
 
Critics warned the arming of civilians could only escalate a spate of extra-judicial killings blamed on government security forces, and turn the country into "the wild, wild West."
Where have we heard this before. Every time we try to ease gun restrictions we always get "and turn the country into the wild, wild West."

It hasn't yet to my knowledge. Seems to me like it has been "take away the guns and turn the country into the wild, wild West."
 
Historically the Wild Wild West was far safer for the average citizen than the streets of todays major cities. 120 years ago unless you were in Indian territory you were usually safe from crime. Gunfights murders, and other gratuitious violence was usually constrained to bars, whorehouses and other less than wholesome areas. Avoid these and you were quite safe. Can't say that now about most cities.
 
120 years ago people were safer from crime. Even if you were black or chinese, because if you were killed by a white man, it was hardly a crime. If a native american entered a whorehouse or bar and was on the receiving end of gratuitious violence, he wasn't a victim, because beating a native american wasn't a crime either. Aaahhh... the good' ol "safer" days !
oops.. "average citizens"... blacks, asians, and native americans technicaly weren't "citizens". Maybe white people being allowed to beat, whip, and lynch minority non-citizens is the definition of the good ol' days.

(sorry, sarcasm. just being my usual cynical self. I actually agree with thexrayboy. The wild wild west had alot less random violence than most of todays cities.)
 
Just a note:

Crime is pretty much where it was at, since before this Administration came in.
The communist insurgency HAS strengthened a bit in recent years... but
the big difference between today and ten years ago is the surging influx of
Muslim squatters

---they find a vacant lot, set up shantytowns around a quickly-built mosque.
These micro-slums generate regular crime, but worse, have at least 14 times
in the past 3 years proven to be staging areas for urban terrorism
(bus-bombings, a cineplex bombing, a bunch of groceries and markets bombed, etc).

Extremely undereducated, but very fertile and violent, they move in,
depress real estate value, form gangs and drive/bully Filipino homeowners out.
They actually have a movement called 'Balik Muslim' (Return to Muslims),
aiming to return the Philippines to a pre-Hispanic Muslim State (a concept
that's historically without any basis).

There are a great many armed, law-abiding Filipino households.
What may be lacking is a training program to teach them how to defend
more than just their own, individual homes.

The minute that government signs REAL LAW that allows it, my block alone
has 31 households sufficiently-armed, reasonably-skilled and fairly itching
to get into community-defense training and organization.


h.
 
thexrayboy said;
Gunfights murders, and other gratuitious violence was usually constrained to bars, whorehouses and other less than wholesome areas. Avoid these and you were quite safe. Can't say that now about most cities.

Actually you can say that. Most people in our cities are free from violence and serious danger of violence except in the less then wholesome areas. It's usually a district, precinct or neighborhood or two that is responsible for the majority of the violent crime in any given city.

horge,
Could a mobile training team from the states get any business in your neck of the woods?

Jeff
 
Funny a second class country gov has a higher regard for it's general citizenry than our own. I wonder why.

Jeff White
Actually you can say that. Most people in our cities are free from violence and serious danger of violence except in the less then wholesome areas. It's usually a district, precinct or neighborhood or two that is responsible for the majority of the violent crime in any given city.
I'd have to disagree with that. Houston is a good example; although there are distinct trouble areas, they are numerous, large, and pretty much checker the entire city - even extending well outside the city limits. The result is that violent street crime is a fact of life everywhere except the most proactively and heavily policed neigborhoods and gated and patrolled communities.

-------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
I Disagree

Im Pinoy and I disagree with the governments plan if it were to generalize the plan. Bcuz I have to admit of the Pinoys moral understanding on the gun subject is alsmost nil. Though we have the highest literacy rate in Asia it does not follow that we are well-literates in the gun issues, crime laws, etc., compared that to other developed countries, like the U.S. A mere 5% of the population can only afford to buy guns, legally. While almost 50% of the 85million population live below in the poverty line. To translate all this gun illiterates, crime law illiterates just dont have the capacity to responsibly carry firearms. If you ask a common barangay official or town official the definition or difference of homicide from murder chances are he'll answer you, duh!

However, I am open in acquiring civilian support personnel from legal gun clubs, IPSC and IDPA players since these people have been known to be more safety and moral conscious. yes we have IPSC and IDPA competitions here. But of course strict screening must be in place, psycho, mental and other evaluation tests.

Just my take.

Thanks.
 
Good point

Although, PPSA sometimes sponsor safety training program, it does cater mainly to that 5% you mentioned. I wonder where the present government will get the funding to train civilians when local police force are lacking in proper training due to lack of funds. My own cousin who is a retired police sergeant cant even shoot straight, he even accidentally put a hole in one of our antic desk. I remember his department issue service revolver with only three rounds in it while on duty(not enough ammo).

But I do like the governments idea and maybe they should ask PPSA members to volunteer and offer training.

Jorge, these proliferation of muslim squatters you mentioned, is it also happening in the central and northern part of the Philippines? I suspect its only down south as I have not seen them in my neck of woods(homes rather).
 
LAK -

Houston, unlike many cities has NO zoning. That is a major problem regarding crime, but it is also kind of a blessing in disguise. There are not any places in Houston that are literal war zones like you see in DC, LA, Cincinatti et cetera.

So, while crime has a larger foot print, Houston is far from the war zone that you just described.
 
Houston, unlike many cities has NO zoning.
I lived in Houston and I have been wondering if there was still no zoning.

Also, can the husband still shoot the wife's lover? Last I heard the wives were trying for equal rights, ie; to be able to shoot the husband's lover.
 
This thread went out of whack!

How did this thread went from arming Philippine citizen to shooting a married couples lovers in Houston. I must have missed something along the way:eek:
 
:barf: thats about 20thousand miles, right?:uhoh:

anyways python looks like the current government is hoping for the private sector to chip-in some for cash for all these armed civilian component.

just this morning i watched our local news via ABS/Cbn - showing MNLF rebels already patrolling some parts of Davao City in an apparent support or to augment the city police against local crime groups. though no long arms were shown on t.v. it was obvious these guys were still packing. this was sanctioned by the way by no less than the city mayor himself. so far its looking well but for how long. these guys are bound to temptation of being influenced by higher powers in the government or society to their advantage.

**And if I may add, Philippines has quite a checkered past in arming civilians. First arming citizens in the local level, there was the 'alsa masa,' the ilaga's, the CHDF then for one reason or another they all end-up being private armies to some top honcho politicians and hacienderos in the country side.

Lets face it GUN OWNERSHIP is not for everyone.
 
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combatantr2
Im Pinoy and I disagree with the governments plan if it were to generalize the plan. Bcuz I have to admit of the Pinoys moral understanding on the gun subject is alsmost nil. Though we have the highest literacy rate in Asia it does not follow that we are well-literates in the gun issues, crime laws, etc., compared that to other developed countries, like the U.S. A mere 5% of the population can only afford to buy guns .. (etc)
The gov in Peru armed the illiterate peasants there when the raiding of villages and murder by the communist "Shining Path" loonies reached a critical level a number or years ago. Old men, women, et al were issued a hodgepodge of old shotguns, rifles etc. It worked, the thugs suddenly found a hindrance - and actual deadly consequences - to their activities.

mbt2001
Houston, unlike many cities has NO zoning. That is a major problem regarding crime, but it is also kind of a blessing in disguise. There are not any places in Houston that are literal war zones like you see in DC, LA, Cincinatti et cetera.
Zoning may place controls on some things - but it does not stop thugs or gangbangers committing street crimes anywhere they care to drive or walk to. Thus there is no place where one can say it is "safer" than the other in any city with the exeptions I already noted.

And while I did not comment on the level of crime, contrary to your assertion there is a very high overall level of serious crime in Houston - I see it often firsthand. Every year one city or another is listed as murder capital USA; I believe it is St Louis at the moment. At the present rate Houston is not that far behind.

I have seen this in action in many countries, and things will be no different in the Phillipines or anywhere else.

--------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
LAK;

What may work in PERU may not work for The Philippines. Our political affairs is immature, seems like we can change leaders overnite. How many coups did we have since 1986? Was it 9, 11? An attempt last was made in Feb/2006. We have the marxist threat from the NEW PEOPLES ARMY, the muslim rebellion in the south that has been going on since the Spanish colonization down to the American occupation after the Spaniards left. The cultural divide among Christians and muslims. The corrupt image of some government lead agencies, etc.

I think law enforcement work should be left the government. But as I said armed civilian component is okey but check and balances mechanisms must be in place. A standard must be upheld. A time frame must be observed, that as soon threat has gone down armed civilian groups must be disbanded accordingly. Etc and etc.
 
Arm citizens...

What a novel idea... almost sounds like something that I've heard before... oh, no what was that term again? Oh yea, a MILITIA!
 
Full blooded Pinoy!

I too is a full blooded Pinoy. One thing that worries me in arming the citizen is that we in general (I am speaking of a macho personalities ofPinoys during my time 40 some years ago along Caloocan and Tondo), blood on the streets the Florida gun-banners predicted during passage of "Stand your ground" might really happen in Pinas. Hell, I still remember the time where simply looking at a guy few second longer is a fight waiting to happen. I do know that a lot of us specially the less educated are a bunch of hot headed Pinoys. I do not know much about the younger generations as I am now a senior citizen and simply looking at them longer probably will not result in a perceived challenge to them.
But, if the citizens are willing to learn and change like I did then there is hope.
 
With reguards to arming the poor and illiterate....

The Minutemen militias of the the American Revolution were made up of people pulled from the general populace. Many of them were farmers and hunts who were great shots, but some were city folk who had little firearm experience. Very few were literate, but they were all trained in the complex process of loading and firing flintlock muskets.

Throwing a bunch of guns into the hands of poor and frightend civilians and telling them to defend themselves is probably dangerous and irresponsible. However, if the government places officers to form and train a militia they can have a very sucessful security force. A trained militia (not an armed posse) can provide a stronge defense of a town. A civilian trained in the militia can fight in a unit, but also can defend him/herself should they be alone.

I have heard that things are getting worse in many places in the SE Pacific (Phillipines, Austrailia, Indonesia), I hope things improve.
 
I am a Filipino too from Manila. I've been here in Virginia, USA for the past 4 years. One thing I've admired this great country is the way their forefathers educate them about the importance of learning how to use a firearm, the moral obligation that comes with it and the noble passing of this knowledge from generation to the next. That is why the law-abiding-citizens of this country are now enjoying their God-given-right to defend themselves. I have experienced handling firearms here (thank you Mr. Tommy Steinbach) with the guidance of a good friend I worked with in the operating room. Learned to respect the gun's power and understand the responsibility that goes with owning one. (CHP holder and owns 2 awesome 1911s). I also read, study, practice shooting at least 3x a month and yes joined the NRA.

Here in the US when I go to the range you meet courteous well manered people who spend time talking to you and exchange ideas and views about firearms. In contrast the Filipino culture, owning a gun has a different effect on one's personality. Majority of the male especially in lower income bracket will be most often than not hot headed and will just use a firearm to defend one's ego, and machoism. Now don't get me wrong, PPSA is there PRO Gun is also there and is more than willing to promote proper and lawful gun ownership. Sad to say it is not enough. It will take a lot of education for this present generation, for the Phillippines to be at the level the US is at now. The ordinary Pinoy guys are just not ready.
 
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