Philippines bans gun-owners from carrying firearms in public

[Drizzt]

Agence France Presse


January 30, 2003 Thursday

SECTION: International News

LENGTH: 295 words

HEADLINE: Philippines bans gun-owners from carrying firearms in public

DATELINE: MANILA, Jan 30

BODY:
Philippines President Gloria Arroyo on Thursday banned licensed civilian gun owners from carrying the weapons in public as part of her campaign to check crime and violence.

The order affects nearly a million licensed gun owners across the archipelago which has been rocked by kidnappings and communist and Muslim guerrilla insurgencies. Millions of Filipinos keep guns in their homes, sometimes illegally, as protection against crime. Police alone say they have issued 800,000 gun permits so far.

In a speech at police headquarters here, Arroyo ordered police to "suspend indefinitely the issuance of permits to carry firearms in public places."

Effective immediately, Arroyo said gun licenses would be limited to ownership, "and not carrying them in public places."

"From now on, only the uniformed men in the military and authorized law enforcement officers can carry firearms in public places, and only pursuant to existing laws."

She said civilians who own guns would henceforth have to keep these weapons at home.

"We cannot disregard the paramount need of law and order, just as we cannot be heedless of our people's aspirations for peace," Arroyo said.

Interior Secretary Jose Lina said earlier this month that unlicensed weapons figured in 85 percent of gun-related crimes in the Philippines over the past 10 years.

At least 328,000 firearms, mostly handguns, are held by civilians without police authorization, the government estimates.

The estimates do not include guns held by the 12,500-member Moro Islamic Liberation Front, the 9,000-member communist New People's Army, and smaller armed groups like the Abu Sayyaf kidnap gang which has alleged links to the al Qaeda network of Islamic militants.

 

[El Tejon]

Make the good guys defenseless, that'll fix it!

 

[CZ-75]

unlicensed weapons figured in 85 percent of gun-related crimes in the Philippines over the past 10 years.

At least 328,000 firearms, mostly handguns, are held by civilians without police authorization, the government estimates.

The estimates do not include guns held by the 12,500-member Moro Islamic Liberation Front, the 9,000-member communist New People's Army, and smaller armed groups like the Abu Sayyaf kidnap gang which has alleged links to the al Qaeda network of Islamic militants.

Yep. I think banning law-abiding civilians is going to solve the Phillipines problems with crime and violence.

 

[sixgun_symphony]

Philippines President Gloria Arroyo on Thursday banned licensed civilian gun owners from carrying the weapons in public as part of her campaign to check crime and violence.

They got a woman president, of course she wants to take away "all those nasty guns".

Very, very effeminate trait to be submissive.

 

[CWL]

Yup, take away the licensed gunowners' rights to prevent crime & defend against the spate of kipnappings that police are powerless to prevent.

As usual, everyone will continue to ignore this law.

 

[Jim March]

Part of what's going on here is rampant corruption. All these Filipino carry permits are handled the way California's discretionary system works and if you think it's bad here....

So with lots of legally armed crooks obtaining guns with bribes, the number of offenses by permitholders is unreal compared to US standards. Under any corrupt system of permit issuance, abuse of the permit by a crony is an embarassment to the issuing official and hence there's pressure to cover it up. It's happened in California.

Knowing this, the permitholders are more likely to screw up.

Under a fair system of issuance, with genuine equality under the law respected, if a permitholder blows it law enforcement faces no problems whatsoever in coming down on 'em like a ton o' bricks.

 

[New_comer]

:banghead:!!!

:banghead: :banghead: !!!

:banghead: :banghead::banghead: !!!!!

Sorry, but I can't talk right now...

http://philstar.com/philstar/News200301310404.htm

 

[citizen]

Makes sense to me............

 

[Sven]

I'd love to hear a report from the Philippines - any High Roaders out there?

 

[HABU]

Having lived in the PI for four years, I'm not suprised a bit.

 

[PATH]

Yome for a mlitary coup/ All they ever do is make the honest folks defenseless!

 

[New_comer]

At least our Pro-Gun advocates have voiced out the opposition to such a move. There is still hope...

"‘Extreme measure"
As expected, the decision drew mixed reactions from concerned groups.

People for Responsible Ownership of Guns (ProGun) group secretary general Andy Apostol said they were dismayed over the decision to indefinitely suspend gun permits. He described Mrs. Arroyo’s order as an "extreme measure."

On the other hand, Gunless Society president Nandy Pacheco said the total gun ban was a "long overdue" decision. He hailed the move as "a most welcome development" since it finally ended the decade-long debate on the issue.

Demetrio Tuason, president of the Association of Firearms and Ammunition Dealers (AFAD), said they will appeal the order.

"We always support the initiative or the instruction of the President. We shall however try to explain to her that this may open up the doors to all criminal elements in the country including rebels to take advantage of our law abiding citizen," Tuason said.

Tuason said AFAD will try to appeal the decision and "explain the side of responsible gun owners."

Apostol, for his part, scored the decision pointing out legitimate gun owners would be left with no choice but to remain in their homes while criminal elements roam the streets with their illegal firearms.

"She (Mrs. Arroyo) was certainly ill-advised on her decision," he said in pointing out that there was no public consultation on the issue.

Apostol argued on the same line that the government should also suspend the licenses of ten bus drivers who were recently found to have run over and killed a pedestrian.

At the same time, ProGun asked if the government would reimburse the amount gun owners paid in securing a permit to carry firearms outside of their residence.

Apostol said an applicant pays as much as P7,000 to get such a permit. The license fee alone costs P4,150 while other fees include the neuro-psychiatric exam, a gun safety seminar, and the gun proficiency test which each applicant is required to pass before being issued the permit.

"My permit expires in July. I can’t use it now but already paid the amount. Will the government reimburse us?" Apostol asked.

He said ProGun alone has an estimated 15,000 paying members."

To those who have missed it in my previous post, here's the link again: http://philstar.com/philstar/News200301310404.htm

 

[TheEgg]

Key Words --

"We cannot disregard the paramount need of law and order, just as we cannot be heedless of our people's aspirations for peace," Arroyo said.

If the paramount goal is "law and order" then all other goals/needs will be sujugated, including any rights of the people that get in the way.

Unfortunately, we have similar thinking in the US. There are a lot of people in this country, Republicans, Democrats, and those in the middle that will see nothing wrong with eliminating any human right that gets in the way of the "perfect, safe society".

:banghead:

 

[pax]

They got a woman president, of course she wants to take away "all those nasty guns".

Very, very effeminate trait to be submissive.

Sixgun_Symphony,

<heavy sarcasm>

What an intelligent comment. Obviously, the president of the Philippines is an idiot only because she is a woman, not because she is a politician adept in political grandstanding and all the other tricks of that obscene trade. I'm sure her brains would instantly rise to the occasion, if only she were endowed with that wee bit of proud flesh!

Ah, if only the world were run only by men! We should repeal women's suffrage immediately, and go back to the good old days.

</heavy sarcasm>

pax

Talking with a man is like trying to saddle a cow. You work like hell, but what's the point? -- Gladys Upham

 

[Chris Rhines]

Hmmm. No legislative session. No vote. Just pure rule by decree. When does President Gloria switch her title to 'Maximum Leader?'

Not that it's much better in the good old USA...

- Chris

 

[Drizzt]

Philippine Daily Inquirer


February 1, 2003

SECTION: 7

LENGTH: 557 words

HEADLINE: GUN OWNERS ASSAIL BAN AS RECKLESS, ILL-ADVISED

BYLINE: TJ Burgonio and Christine Avendano

BODY:
ADVOCATES of responsible gun ownership yesterday assailed the President's gun ban order-warning that this would leave civilians defenseless against gun-toting outlaws.

In the House, a lawmaker who leads two major target shooting clubs asked President Macapagal-Arroyo to reconsider her new policy given the current peace and order situation in the country.

Cagayan Rep. Jack Enrile said the gun ban on civilians was "ill-advised'' and will only encourage criminals because the "only effective deterrent to crime against a person'' has been removed. Manny Molina, vice president of the Peaceful, Responsible Owners of Guns group (ProGun), also denounced the President's directive, calling it "reckless.''

His group, which has 14,000 members, he said, is considering bringing a case before local courts to question the twin orders.

"Many bodies will be falling. Many civilians will be killed because they can't defend themselves against criminals,'' Molina said in a phone interview.

"Why are gun owners, who are mostly responsible, being penalized for the acts of irresponsible gun holders like in the Llamas' killing?'' he added, referring to the man who shot dead Ateneo law graduate Jose Ramon Llamas in Pasay City on Jan. 10 following a traffic altercation.

By Molina's estimates, licensed gun owners number around 750,000 nationwide.

Enrile said he backs the President's bid to fight crime in the streets but said that "stripping the law-abiding citizen of his wherewithal to defend himself when confronted with imminent danger is not the way to do it.''

"The current peace and order situation in the country is such that the ordinary citizen is forced to go through the tedious and time consuming process of legally acquiring a firearm and lawfully securing a permit to carry the same for his personal protection," said Enrile, who is vice chair of the House committee on national defense.

He said that "none of us can really rely on the country's law enforcement agencies to ensure the safety and security of each and every individual citizen."

Loose firearms

Enrile, son of former Sen. Juan Ponce Enrile, is chair of the Philippine Practical Shooting Association and regional chair of the International Practical Shooting Confederation.

In a statement, he said the government should look more into the problem of loose or unlicensed firearms in the country, citing the Department of Interior and Local Government records showing that, in the past 10 years, 85 percent of the 12,233 firearms involved in the commission of crimes were loose or unlicensed.

Molina stressed that the President's order was issued despite 2002 police figures indicating that only 7 percent of gun-related incidents were committed with the use of licensed firearms.

But in Camp Crame, Director General Hermogenes Ebdane Jr., chief of the Philippine National Police, advised ProGun officials to consult the police first before resorting to protest actions.

"I would suggest that they coordinate with us and that they refrain from making any mass actions because that would not be too good to them. That will be to their disadvantage," he told reporters.

"Remember that we are still in the process of preparing the implementing rules and regulations, and if they conduct these things, we might think otherwise."

 

[Shootin' Buddy]

Very, very effeminate trait to be submissive.

No, obviously it's a masculine trait, since all the men are just going to roll over and take it.

 

[Drizzt]

Philippine Daily Inquirer


February 1, 2003

SECTION: 27

LENGTH: 785 words

HEADLINE: CRIMINALS ARE VERY HAPPY

BYLINE: Ramon Tulfo

BODY:




BECAUSE of that rotten, stinking, good-for-nothing Moro who shot to death a topnotch law graduate during a traffic altercation recently, other citizens who need to carry guns for protection are already helpless.

How can law-abiding citizens, whose lives are under threat, now defend themselves against would-be assailants?

How can law-abiding citizens protect themselves against criminals and criminal-minded law enforcers?

You say that they should depend on the police for protection? C'mon, give me a break! ***

But these questions are already moot and academic because President Macapagal-Arroyo has ordered the indefinite suspension of the issuance of permits to carry guns.

Law-abiding citizens whose lives are threatened will just have to use their wits and cunning to stay out of harm's way.

So, when you sense danger, run like hell! And when you're cornered, fight with your teeth and nails.

***

Criminals are happy because they bring their guns or other deadly weapons with or without the presidential ban.

With citizens deprived of the means to protect themselves, they are easy prey to criminals. And the criminals include many of those who wear the uniform.

Look what happened to PR man Bubby Dacer and his driver Emmanuel Corbito. Weren't they kidnapped and murdered by elite policemen?

***

When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

And the irony of ironies is that some of the people who are sworn to protect and serve the citizenry-the policemen-are the ones abusing the people.

The ban on the carrying of firearms in public places should also include off-duty policemen or cops wearing civilian clothes. Only those wearing their uniform should be allowed to carry their service firearms. The exception should be cops on intelligence work.

 

[rick_reno]

Philippines ban gun-owners from carrying

I worked in the Philippines (Manila) from about 95 to 2000 - the very large company I worked for had a number of test and assembly plants located there. I always felt like I was the only one without a gun in that place - our plant guards had guns, we'd go out to eat and the restaurants would usually have guards armed with shotguns at the door, banks always had an armed guard, shops/grocery stores often had guards in uniform with shotguns/handguns. On one visit the Intercontinental hotel in Makati (Manila) had armed guards on the floor I was staying on. Once on a lunch trip I commented to one of our plant managers that I should bring a gun with me, he reached over and pulled an old 1911 out of his glove box and told me if I wanted to I could borrow his, he had others he could use. It appeared to be a very well armed country.