Physics of nunchucks?

[MatthewVanitas]

Dumb question, bear with.

I was thinking about the various weapons laws, and how many "cool" but pointless weapons are illegal.

I will agree that anyone carrying a nunchucks in public is probably a colossal dork, but that's beside the point. I was pondering that many legal blunt objects are as dangerous as, or far more so, than nunchucks.

What is it about nunchucks that would make them a desirable weapon? Is there some momentum advantage in having the hitting stick swing behind the handle stick? Or is it just that two 1.5' sticks that can fold in half are more concealable than one 3' stick that doesn't?

Is there any actual advantage besides concealment, and looking like a Bruce Lee wannabe until you hurt yourself?


(Side note: my favorite "idjit with cool weapon" scene was from Romper Stomper, where the skinhead wielding the chain manages to smack himself in the face during a fight.)

-MV

 

[CWL]

Nunchaku are a type of flail weapon. They work by using momentum to increase speed of strike which multiplies the impact force on a target. An added advantage is that speed & motion allow a knowledgable user to change direction of strikes in midair & make multiple strikes on an opponent. In pre-firearm days, flails also allowed a user to make an attack over the defender's shield.

Flails originated in Asia & Europe as farm implements for separating husks from grains and common to all poor farmers. They could be be carried without raising suspicions of the constabulatory. A "farmboy" who has been using one all his life certainly understood how to use them to crack an opponent's skull if necessary.

 

[zinj]

IIRC Very little is known about historical Nunchaku, even how they were used. There is a strong possibility that they were never considered a true weapon and were instead used in displays of martial coordination and dexterity, much like drill rifles today.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Nunchaku are excellent for making 1970's martial arts movies.

For everything else, not so much.

 

[AdamXBT]

I Know How To Use It A Little,And Yes It Hurts Very Well,But With Practice Are Easy To Use.Some Professional Use Two At Same Time Very Quick,These Are A Level Very High To Me... But Is Cool.

 

[rwc]

About 20 yeasr ago I learned a kata for them and had a few bruises to show for it. Something else I learned at the time is that they also can provide good leverage/control if you bind someone's hand or arm between them. Sort of a "nut-cracker" feeling.

 

[7ranquilcitizen]

Darn thread got me thinking of "once upon a time in high school". http://youtube.com/watch?v=xf1kFEUF-uU

the nun chuck fighting is about 5:10 into the clip. just that scene alone made me so buy the movie.

 

[rustymaggot]

i have no martial arts training whatsoever. that said, heres my take.

they are exeptionally mean and effective. very few of the hollywood moves are useful. keep it simple and brutal and they work. also, the octagon shaped ones break bones better cause of the sharper angles.

if you really want to practice and know what they do when you hit stuff then you have to actually hit stuff. be prepared for the spring back when you hit a solid target, and be prepared for misses and know where the striking handle is going to end up. forget about the behind the back crap, and forget about the two pairs stuff.

 

[tellner]

A big stick is much more effective.

 

[Arkie]

I've tried to use the Nunchaku but I usually put more pain on me than someone else. LOL...

I'll stick with the Bo Staff.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

I have a pair of metal collasping ones (think two short ASP batons connected by a chain) and can vouch that, for something that I can literally fold up and stick in my shirt pocket, the things would be an extremely brutal weapon if I ever needed to use them as such.

Think blackjacks, saps, those springy ASP style batons...

Nunchaku work using the same velocity multiplying mechanism as mideval flails (though they're much lighter) and can bring a lot more kinetic energy (translation: wallop) to a target than it looks like they can. With a pair you can swing figure eights or similar very quickly and set up a perimiter in front of yourself that nobody without a gun or a pike could get through without being beaten very profusely.

Nunchaku with chains (as opposed to rope) are also very good for catching knife strikes, binding opponent's arms/legs/necks, and all sorts of other things. But at its core, a pair of nunchaku is simply a portable beating stick that's hard to top.

 

[Steel Talon]

Hello Matthew...

The problem w/the Nunchaku is controlling the recoil of hitting it is difficult to maintain a flow of movement when it is firing back at you Spinning them in the air for an audience is a whole different thing. Yes, for a money shot they can crippel a BG quickly and for binds, come-alongs and chokes they work very well. But for multiple strikes they are very difficult to master. PLus they would be difficult to conceal.

For a non-firearm weapon a Yawara (my favorite) is quite effective as a fist load , striker, and submissions device. It can be carried in the hip pocket. It can be eloborately made with pointed or domed ends, or can be an inconspicuous 6 inch piece of 1/2-3/4 diameter wood dowel. It can even be a magazine loaded with quarters and rolled up when needed. Yawaras can come in many forms, and names ie Koppo, Kubaton ..... BUt all do the job of fist loads, stikers, and submissions.

Arnis/escrima are great FMA to learn however carrying around 1 or 2 bamboo sticks is a bit noticable Dog Brothers philosophical approach to training is great, but there are still rules and controls in place when they have combat matches. To include minimal body protecting ie. Head gear with face shield and gloves.

A cane is much easier to conceal in the open, a little bit of drama such as walking with it correctly (no swaggering) is all that is needed. A fighting cane, needs to be solid (mine are hickory), have a good hook diameter with a steep "duck bill" (hooking and diggin') It should also have along its length finger grooves for gripping. Hapkido offers great cane fighting training techniques. As does others.

A knife, even in the hands of an "untrained" fighter is an effective PSD.

Peace
Steel Talon

 

[bakert]

tellner>"A big stick is much more effective."
I kinda likes a sawed off pick handle to carry in my truck. It works!!

 

[El Tejon]

Advantages? No. They are popular for the same reason that many less than optimal firearms are popular or switchblades are popular--presence in motion pictures.

They are among the more feckless "weapons" on the earth which would rank with the rope dart and the three sectional staff. The three sectional staff prominent in many northern CMA systems is thrice as difficult (only weapon that I am afraid of) to learn but at least has some utility.

Qin na with flails is such a rare probability that I cannot imagine the level of training for it to be successful (instructor level and beyond). Nunchuku has zero utility, but it is present in movies.

 

[tellner]

My first Silat teacher went to a martial arts to do sponsored by, and I quote "The Northwest Mafia". Participants were supposed to bring their favorite fighting stick and fighting knife. He gave a lot of folks the creeping horrors and couldn't find anyone to work with him. His "stick" was a pick handle wrapped in two yards of barbed wire. His "knife" was a meat axe.

 

[Beatnik]

The problem w/the Nunchaku is controlling the recoil of hitting it is difficult to maintain a flow of movement when it is firing back at you

Forgive the soapboxing....

This really points out the absurdity of the general belief that eastern weapons are somehow superior to western weapons.

For example, the katana was not a superior sword in any sense of the word. It was made for a different purpose, out of crap materials. If they had D2 steel, they would have forged it from one piece.

You'd be hard pressed to find a European flail that does what you mention. They are all short chained with a smaller head than a handle, which means that no matter how you swing it, if you keep it away from your head and body it's not going to smack you.

Nunchaku will always smash your fingers.

There is a resurgence recently in European reenactment communities and choreographers to rediscover European martial arts. I am no expert, but from what I've seen, they emphasize the brutal simplicity other posters have mentioned so far.

East: from horse stance, spinning back kick to crane stance... blah blah...

West: take both fists, and smash his neck mightily on either side of his larynx.

It's going to be really interesting in the next 20 years or so to see how much of it they rediscover. For now, I'm going to stick with 21st century self defense.

 

[Steel Talon]

>>>Forgive the soapboxing....

This really points out the absurdity of the general belief that eastern weapons are somehow superior to western weapons.

For example, the katana was not a superior sword in any sense of the word. It was made for a different purpose, out of crap materials. If they had D2 steel, they would have forged it from one piece.<<<

Hello Beatnik..

No problem soapboxing, me I perfer knuckle boxing

I'm not sure of your logic towards my statement.. being
>>>The problem w/the Nunchaku is controlling the recoil of hitting it is difficult to maintain a flow of movement when it is firing back at you<<<

I stand by that statement based on my experiences with them..

I believe there are better choices than Nunchaku (based on the thread question) for carrying a conceald non firearm weapon.

Sorry for the thread drift...

As for a Katana, its carries an extremely deeper meaning (spritual) to the swords master,, There is a saying "Master the sword, master your mind" which also transends to western beliefs also.

The Katana itself is a "cleaving weapon" parry and thrust is part, but it is used more in parry cleave if that. Your basic sets of strikes are ( - X Z I T) The goal is to cut your opponent down. To grip the katana is in the same manner of how Ty Cobb would grip his baseball bat. Its a push pull movement that focuses the power to the last 2 inches of the blade.

There is an Iiado art soley dedicated for drawing, striking ,and resheathing in one fluid movement (first strike) as for the historical manufacture of Katanas I have held some truly awsome pieces from historical Japanese swordsmiths.

I also agree with you on your thoughts of Western MA I believe that the traditional Bowie knife is the premium CQB weapon. Look to Colonel Applegates Smachete, its size and use same principle.

However a kerambit is a wicked tool in the hands of a Silat trained fighter. Given one focus of use is to "Peel" the flesh away from your opponent But I also understand any knife even in the hands of a untrained person is /can be devastating.

In a fudal combat Pikes, Poles, Axes, Flails,and swords layed waste to many a soldier. (Hence the use of Archers first) They have nothing to do with an alternate to concealable firearms.

IMHO...Ultimately, a person who trains in the Martial Arts (east or west) needs to pracrice / understand open handed combat, traditional and non traditional weapons, improvised weapons combat, and firearms combat. Primarily situational awareness ie. paying attention. Its about creating an avenue of escape and taking it.

End of thread drift..

Sorru for the poor spelling and gramar its been a long day.

Peace
Steel Talon

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Advantages? No. They are popular for the same reason that many less than optimal firearms are popular or switchblades are popular--presence in motion pictures.

They are among the more feckless "weapons" on the earth which would rank with the rope dart and the three sectional staff.

I'll make you a deal. You let me hit you with one, and then you can tell me if it's ineffective.

Not that I have any illusions about my kung-fu skill (or lack thereof) but given the choice between a stick and a pair of nunchucks I'll take the nunchucks. Of course, given the additional option of a knife and I'll take the knife, gun and I'll take the gun...

 

[tellner]

Give me a good stick and I'll take odds against the nunchuks. Give me a pick handle and I'll take any odds you care to give.

 

[alucard0822]

The nunchaku are a relatively modern "weapon" they came about during the early 1900s as a training aid by cantonese martial artists to try to increase dexterity and reflexes and wrist strength. they were not even originally intended to be a weapon, but became instantly popular because of their use in bruce lee's jeet-kun-do forms in his movies. they are now used by some chinese and japanese police in place of batons. the nunchaku can be flipped over a persons wrist and when the handles are pulled together apply control and pressure to the base of the thumb and wrist to detain someone. As an offensive weapon they have a good chance of rebounding from a strike and hitting the user. I have seen footage of chinese police who hold the top of each end in each hand and use them individually as small batons, then use the chain or rope (twards the officer) to block.

 

[RyanM]

The real physics on a nunchaku vs. a stick of the same length (combined) and weight, is basically the old heavy and slow vs. light and fast argument. Again. Can we never get away from that???

Basically, a solid stick allows you to get a small fraction of your body weight behind the blow, but speed is limited to how fast you can swing, plus a bit due to the extra length (assuming the stick isn't a significant encumberance, angular velocity is about the same as if you were swinging nothing, but because of the extra length, instantaneous linear velocity towards the tip is much faster than the instantaneous linear velocity of your hand).

By adding a flexible point in the middle, you make the outer stick move on a very tight arc in addition to the usual (very complex) arm and hand arc, adding a considerable amount of velocity. But the trade-off is the striking weight is limited to the weight of the stick.

Basically a difference of leverage (effective weight). Contrary to what people say, a longer weapon gives you less striking leverage than a short one, but higher velocity. So adding a flexible point is basically a way of artificially lengthening the weapon, without adding actual size or weight.

 

[tellner]

The solid stick is much better for defense and allows more effective thrusting attacks. It has the virtue of simplicity. Many of the skills and techniques are applicable (with slight modification) to other important weapons like the big knife.

 

[plexreticle]

Nunchucks are great for knocking yourself out.

 

[iiibdsiil]

I've seen a couple people in person that I would darn near give up even with a gun in my hand against when they had their nunchucku.

But, I bet it looks a lot more fancy and faster moving then it really is. Eh, thinking back, maybe not.

 

[2TransAms]

No less than three of my friends (more like people I know) have given themselves wounds needing stitches with nunchuks,and another knocked himself unconscious..in his dorm room...by himself. His roommate found him on the floor. Good times,good times.

I suppose they're like anything else...a useful tool if you have the training to use it, or something to hurt yourself with if you don't.