Picked up a new G20...

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MachIVshooter

MachIVshooter

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And all I can say is I don't know how it is that some find these guns preferable to other designs for recreational use.

It's been a few years since I traded off my gen II G22, and awhile since I'd fired any others, so I'd kinda forgotten how they are.

This gun has a purpose; I wanted a beater 10mm that holds 15, because I'd probably cry if I dinged up my Witness Limited or Kimber ST II in the field, and the Witness Compact and 1006 don't hold enough rounds (nor does the Kimber).

I thought about another Witness FS, but wanted something with a more rust-resistant finish. And also something different; The Sarzilmas K2 (17+1 capacity :eek:) is still vaporware.

Now, I'm not disillusioned, nor am I impressed. It will serve it's purpose and well, no doubt (though we'll see if it takes my loads without a LW tube.....), but I just cant see how anyone prefers these things to a Smith 3rd gen, 1911 or CZ platform for range work. Still feels like a beat-up 2x4 in the hand, doesn't have a very natural POA and the trigger.....well, it just is, we'll leave it at that.

Definitely my red-headed step-child. lol. I like it OK and I'm keeping it, but I'm sure glad I have other 10's to enjoy! YMMV, just my thoughts.
 
...I don't know how it is that some find these guns preferable to other designs for recreational use...

...I wanted a beater 10mm that holds 15, because I'd probably cry if I dinged up my Witness Limited or Kimber ST II...

...wanted something with a more rust-resistant finish...
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You know, for a guy who apparently can't understand why he just bought a Glock 20, you seem to outline the major reasons pretty well. You forgot to mention price.

If you carry it a lot, you'll notice the lighter weight. If you shoot it a lot, you'll notice the durability, and the lessening of recoil the flexing frame gives. You may even eventually decide to do something about the trigger--something besides complain, that is :D--and maybe get an aftermarket barrel to shoot lead (if you reload).

But you're doing well for a start. I remember reading an article in a gun mag once: "How I learned to stop worrying and love the Glock." Most of us get there, some don't. Either way's okay.

So: congratulations, and welcome back to the ranks of...Glock owner!
 
You know, for a guy who apparently can't understand why he just bought a Glock 20, you seem to outline the major reasons pretty well. You forgot to mention price.
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Oh, I definitely understand why I bought it. I just can't understand how people come to love them so.

Price was $500 even (friend owns the LGS), so more than a standard Witness ($360) but much less than the Limited ($900) or ST II ($1,000).

I actually find the recoil impulse of polymer guns much more offensive than steel, always have. This is/was true of all the poly guns I have/had: G-22 & Sigma vs. P94 and 4006, M&P .45 and USP .45 vs. 1911's & S&W 3rd gens, etc.

It is lighter for carry, but is actually more snout-heavy than my 5-1/4" bull barrel Limited, and certainly doesn't balance as well.

The trigger is a gritty 6-1/4 pounds. We'll see where it's at after a couple hundred rounds, but I'd like it smoother and about 3.5-4#.

I don't shoot much lead, so as long as I don't have blow-outs/head separations, I'll leave the factory barrel in.

I'm not hating on it, but pretty darn sure it'll be my only Glock. If there was an M&P 10mm, that would've been the one that came home.
 
I've bought mine used, so that's helped the price. Maybe the trigger, too.

Worst thing about Glocks is they "make" you a tinkerer. Every time a friend of mine turns into a podperson (that is, goes from "I'd never buy that combat tupperware cr-p" to "So, I finally bought one") we have a little "bag o' gun" party: strip it to pins and springs (okay, I usually leave the mag release button and its spring in place), put it back together, and see how many parts are left over when we're done!

Re trigger: perhaps you know about the 25-cent Glock trigger job. You can find it on youtube, too. Do that, get a 3.5# connector, and see what you think.

Personally, I prefer a heavier trigger with a more dependable let-off; I get that from the NY1 trigger spring. Try it if you want: it'll set you back $2 and postage. (The connector, however, will set you back whopping $10!)

Then we can deal with the stinko factory sights...
pretty darn sure it'll be my only Glock.
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You could be right. But then again, it's likely that just about every Glock owner on the planet said that at some point, too.
 
I am in the exact same boat. I have decided that I want a 10mm for hiking/Backpacking (four days 30+ miles hikes) woods gun. I have a EAA Witness in 9mm and thought about getting a 10mm slide for it, but when I checked out the wieght difference I just couldn't do it. The Glock is the lightest reliable 10mm around. I'll probably end up with a 29, but same difference.

I am not Glock guy. Don't like the idea of an unsupported chamber, prefer manual safeties, and I just don't like the bandwagon for what its worth. But the gun fits most of the criteria that I need and no one else is making anything that even comes close.

I'm gonna have to settle for one.
 
Then we can deal with the stinko factory sights...
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I actually rather like the sights.

It may get night sights someday, but unless I go that route, I'll probably leave them be. Target aquisition is about as good as the widened rear notch and flourescent-orange painted sights on my Witness Compact. I just have to bring the muzzle down consciously on account of the goofy grip angle.

If I want to make ragged holes at 25 yards, that's best done with the target sights and much better handling & triggers of the Kimber and the Limited anyway:D

but when I checked out the wieght difference I just couldn't do it. The Glock is the lightest reliable 10mm around.
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The Witness P-carry 10mm is 27 ounces empty, 3.6" tube and 15+1. I thought about it, but as mentioned, I kinda wanted something different. Might come to regret that. Time will tell.
 
The real beauty of a Glock is how quickly you can draw your pistol from a holster, acquire the target and hit it with multiple rapid shots, bangbang bangbang bangbang. Glocks are not a bang bang... yawn bang type of firearm. If you hold your sights on a target for much more than a millasecond then there are better choices than a Glock. A 10mm pistol may be next on my list maybe a G20 maybe an STI 1911 or 2011, probably go cheap and get a G20.
 
I disagree completely about how a polymer gun is less balance, and has more felt recoil then a steel framed pistol. My glock 19 and m&p 45c are much easier to shoot then my father Sig p220 or ruger sp101 with 38spl+p loaded in it. The m&p is a compact 45 and has much less felt recoil then my fathers p220 that is quite heavy.

I think you love those pistols too much to even begin to think that a polymer framed pistol performs better then steel framed pistols.

But hey, to each his own. It wouldn't be a forum without different perspectives. I hope you enjoy your new G20 my friend, and safe shooting.

smitty704
 
"The Witness P-carry 10mm is 27 ounces empty, 3.6" tube and 15+1. I thought about it, but as mentioned, I kinda wanted something different. Might come to regret that. Time will tell."


Unfortunately I have heard nothing but bad bad news from the polymer witnesses. If someone else has a different experience I would LOVE to hear from them, but all I could find was bad press.
 
You should have bought a Glock 29 instead.
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I have a Witness Compact 10. 12+1, only 5 ounces heavier and much more comfortable to shoot. It's also a beater that is accurate and extremely reliable:

100_1010.jpg

Capacity was the deciding factor
 
Sounds like what you really wanted was a G29.
The guns you are comparing it to give the impression you would have been happier with the more compact G29, which is less of a 2x4 and closer in dimensions to the Witness.
Some don't like the short grip on them that makes them more compact, but if that is the case for you there is aftermarket grip extensions for magazines that give a longer more standard grip. Some of them also add +1 or +2 additional capacity in that extra finger worth of length.
Additionally you can also use Glock 20 magazines in the Glock 29, giving you a 15 round capacity as well. So you can have 12-15 round+1 capacity in the G29.


The 10mm Glocks are light weight, and hold good capacity.
Glocks in general for their shortcomings are reliable, durable, and have limited moving parts. They are easy to strip and work on, and won't spend time in a shop or at a workbench. If you break something the parts are simple and inexpensive.
Because the parts on so many Glocks are interchangeable, and Glocks are widespread, you can easily obtain a number of inexpensive competitively priced components and accessories that are more difficult to obtain in other 10mm platforms.

The grip angle is undoubtedly a challenge transitioning from other platforms when it comes to naturally pointing.
It feels worse when just holding or aiming it, but once you start shooting it in 10mm you can come to appreciate the grip angle. That same angle that points differently also gives a very low bore axis that results in noticeably less muzzle flip and perceived recoil. This makes it easier to deliver rapid shots once you are familiar with it compared to a more typical grip angle.
It may not be as noticeable in 9mm, but in 10mm accurate follow-up shots are noticeably faster.
Worse while just holding and better while actually shooting is a good trade-off in my opinion.

There is trigger jobs. Be careful with these and don't go overboard if you actually want to carry it as you have no manual safety. You want the stock trigger travel. A lighter trigger pull can be good though.
 
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Sounds like what you really wanted was a G29.
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Nope. See above.

I hate the look and feel of FS mags in a compact. Otherwise, I'd have just bought some 21 round Hennings mags for the Witness Compact.

This is not for CCW; I have a CS-45, Bulldog Pug .44, PF-9 and P3AT for that. This is a "take it out in the woods, beat the crap out of it and don't care, easy to replace if I lose it" gun.

Same way I like my AR-15 much better than my AK-74, but would rather trash the AK because it's a durable, reliable gun that I love to hate. The AR is a durable, reliable gun that I just love.

If my life hung in the balance, though, concerns over finish damage go out the window, and capacity takes a back seat to ruggedness & reliability; I'd grab my 1006.
 
One of the benefits of the G20 if you plan to use it outdoors is you can readily obtain a 6" barrel. In heavier loads the barrel length is not as important, but several jurisdictions and states have minimum barrel lengths for hunting.
I know of both 5" and 6" barrel minimum states for example which would not allow the use of the stock barrel.
So consider getting one of the 6" barrels if you get an aftermarket barrel for in the woods. It will of course stick out a little.
 
I love 10mm. The only downside is the availability and cost of ammo. If you reload your own ammo or price isn't an issue, you've got yourself one hell of an awesome gun. I owned a Glock 20SF for like 2 months and then I sold it because I don't reload and the cost of ammo was seriously starting to inhibit my joy of shooting it.
 
I've owned an EAA in 10MM and a Colt Delta Elite..(back in the early 90s)

Both got cracked frames and had other issues as well. :(

I bought my first Glock 20 in 1993..same year I bought my first Glock 21 (.45)

Loved both of them. Talk about RELIABILITY..incredible.

Sold the Gen 2 G20.....went without 10MM for many years. Decided to get a new Glock 20 a couple of years ago. Ended up buying 3 of them. ;)

Love that weapon. Nothing is easier to shoot in 10MM. They run 100%; with my lonewolf barrel I run lead reloads (I reload 10MM).

Now I have 2 Glock 29s.....and aftermarket barrels in .40 as well. (I reload .40)

Nothing is more versatile than a GLOCK 20 and 29. The 10MM cartridge properly loaded is a fantastic cartridge. With 15 round mags and a set of good sites you have a great woods or back-alley weapon.

I've been shooting Glocks since 1987 and would never be without several of them. :)

25ivv49.jpg

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That's a pretty nifty setup you got there, Oceanbob. Is that a rack full of Glocks in the first picture? Nice
 
MachIVShooter - Here are my Ten's...Yes, the G20 is a 2x4... but once you get used to the best way to hold it (and get that dang trigger job done) its really an incredible firearm. It comes 2nd place to my Fusion Hunter 1911 longslide but its still a great value... and 1/4 the cost!

img2895z.jpg


(That Kimber STII is a great woods gun, too...)
 
I like my new G20. I have not shot it yet. Recovering from a nasty hernia surgery. :(

I use to be one of those folks that didn't like the 2 x 4 grip. And I have the hands to use it. A very good friend of mine got me through that mental road block. The hand is a wonderful tool. The result,,, my hand meld's right into my 20.

Mine came out of the box with a grit free trigger. Just a tad heavy. A good clean up and relube helped. Then I took the dremel to it. That really helped.

I have since installed a LW connector and there 5.15" barrel. Seeing that I can't shoot right now. I have been dry firing the heck out of it. The trigger has got pretty darn good.

For me the G20 was the best over all 10mm purchase I could make. I look forward to shooting 9 x 25 Dillon with it and white tail hunting.

Please understand I'm in no way a Glock FAN BOY! I dislike there barrels and chambers, No, I hate them!
 
I look forward to shooting 9 x 25 Dillon with it and white tail hunting
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I'm probably going to pick up a 9x25 barrel. Haven't played with that one yet.

The only downside is the availability and cost of ammo. If you reload your own ammo or price isn't an issue, you've got yourself one hell of an awesome gun.
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I'm pretty well versed in the art of the 10 ;)

101_1124-1.jpg

My next project is going to be modifying a Witness for 10mm magnum (have a ton of brass already). The only road block right now is the barrel; It's probably going to have to be a custom. The frame, slide and mag mods I can do myself, since i have a TIG welder and a mill.
 
Odd that you hate your G20 so much. I have learned to like mine more than any other handgun I own or have experience with. I love both my Colt Combat Elite, and my CZ 75, but I like my G20SF more.

The amazing thing with a Glock is you do not care if you feed it some abuse as it takes it and holds up to it so well. I would never treat any of my other guns the same as I do my Glock.

The biggest thing I don't like about my Glock is this. More than any other gun I've ever shot the quality of the ammo affects how well I shoot my G20. I've put this to the test to figure out if it was me or the ammo, and I'm far from some great shot, but I consider myself okay, but not great. With cheap, shoot around ammo in my G20 I'm horrendously off. For me to feed some of that Bitterroot Valley, or Georgia Arms ammo though my Glock is just a waste of my time and money. If I step up to the quality really 10mm loads that you can buy such as Swampfox or Double Tap I'm pretty accurate with it, but probably not quick as accurate as I am with either my 1911 or CZ 75 which I feel that I can shoot both of them pretty accurately regardless of the ammo cost.(both will shoot cheap or expensive ammo pretty accurately for me) Now if I throw some of that Hornady ammo(either 180gr or 200gr) in my Glock I feel like I'm an all-star. For me I just shoot my Glock with Hornady's 10mm ammo(which is not full 10mm loads BTW, but it is great ammo and I like to carry it) better than any other hangun I've ever fired other than my buddies Colt King Cobra, but I can drive tacks with that gun.

I like shooting clay bricks with real 10mm loads. With a 180 or 200gr bullet most of that brick turns into straight dust. I can tell you the 10mm does a lot more damage to them than a .357Mag with it's lighter bullets.

BTW I recommend a few mods to fix some of your complaints. First get a 3.5 lb connector(I have a LWD connector) and do a $.25 trigger job, and you will like the trigger much better. Also for full power loads the Wolff 22 lb recoil assembly I run in my Glock makes for a much more enjoyable shooting experience, and it works just fine with any other ammo I've put threw it.(weak loads, 9x25 Dillion, whatever)

BTW the 9x25 Dillion is a fun round to shoot.
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Yea I don't like the Glock feel either. If you can get the Witness Polymer to run right they are great. I just don't care much for plastic guns though.
 
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