Picking my first Lever Rifle

[civilian75]

Portland eh? You're just down the road from me. Where'd you say you found that Marlin?

I'll tell you AFTER I buy it.

It would be a shame to butcher a Marlin Cowboy.

My thoughts exactly. What a beauty!. I just can't find a plain jane

And I still wonder what you're going to be poaching. That sounds like a pretty classic poacher's gun right there. You don't need such huge bullets for paper-punching, bowling pins, or home defense.

I shoot at an armored plate. When I plink with my suppressed 22lr, I hear a puff, a very muffled click, plate doesn't move. I have suppressed a couple of 30 cals with subs, and they are a bit more gratifying, nothing to call home about. Need lotsa energy of a big bore to get a "Puff... CLANK!" Satisfied? The XTP-HP was my friends idea. I plan to focus on cast bullets.

And, about the .45 magnum cals, Ok, ok, I will look at them, too. THANKS.

 

[civilian75]

I'd like to hear about do-it-yourselfers retrofiting. Is everyone avoiding the topic on purpose? I really do not want to cut the octagonal barrel, but replace it with a cut plain jane. Go back and forth as I feel like. I suspect it won't be like a T/C or a 10/22, but how hard is it? AR15 hard, Savage hard, or AK47 hard? Or, is it a must-take-to-gunsmith hard?

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've run .44 mag /300 gr XTP hand loads through my Marlin 1894 BUT you must be careful when you handload. The .44 mag dinosaur killers my dad loaded for his Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter are too long to feed in my 1894 Cowboy.

Factory 240 Federal, Winchester and 300 gr bullets from Prvi Partizan worked just fine.

You'll pay $200 extra for that tapeered octagon barrel on a Marlin cowboy model JUST to cut it down. Better to buy a plain jane at Dick's or similar big box store as your base firearm.

 

[civilian75]

Just found from my friend his is a '92 after all. He does not like the top eject. I guess that explains why he has not yet scoped it. I've read posts saying top eject makes it harder to scope, suggesting to go the "scout" route.

Will anyone comment on my barrel swapping questions?

Just in case anyone is curious, check the aforementioned armored plate and its shooting stand here:
http://mysite.verizon.net/tikkaman/stand/

I very much appreaciate all your feedback, all of it, even when I may not fully agree with it. It makes me re-evaluate things. I've spent too much money on fireamrs that later do not deliver and I have no one else to blame but me for not taking the time to think things thru.

 

[Heck]

Not to hijack the thread here but has anyone else heard of the .45-70 guide blowing up on someone. I am sure the guy I know was shooting a 'special' hand load and has some scars to prove it.

That being said I love my Marlin .44mag. I don't reload so I saw reason to get the 45lc. I still want one in .45-70

 

[Daniel B]

the Guide Gun that blew up never had much story attached to it. There was a thread on marlinowners.com. vaguely remember that the owner wanted to test out some new loads. Wasn't sure if it was a double charge or to fast of a burning powder.

nothing to worry about if you take your time reloading. Personally I have no desire to reload just yet. I am collecting all the brass I fire through my 1895G. But don't know if I'll reload them or sell them off at some point in the future.

For how much I shoot my 1895G, buying the gear for this caliber wouldn't prove beneficial.

 

[civilian75]

The Guide Gun and Dikk's gun lock policy

A Dikk's [sic] Sporting Goods store just opened last week locally. I finally got a chance to check it out today. Their lever selection is pretty dim but sufficient for my purposes. No 45LC or 44Mag, though, but I finally had a face to face encounter with a Marlin 1895 Guide gun in45/70 gov't, both blue and ss and I loved it! Even its short 4 rd mag also leans itself for my project. I plan to go to great extents to preserve its original looks and original 18.5" bbl. Will see...

But I did not buy it. Unbeknown to me, the chain's gun lock policy prevents them from removing the locks until the firearms is bought and almost out of the store.

The policy ticked me off so much I could not continue with the fact finding process. I ended up leaving the store empty handed.

In short, the good news is a 1895 is now a big blip in my radar screen. The bad news is I don't think I will be buying anything at Dikk's [sic] any time soon. Bummer! I had so much hope... Joe's closure left such a big gap... but I digress...

 

[JustsayMo]

If you can find a Marlin Cowboy with a 24" barrel, it'll do pretty much everything you want.


This is what I have in mind and why:
1. want a big bore rifle. I have narrowed it down to 44Mag or 45LC.
2. want a rifle that can stabilize at least a 250gr bullet (preferably a 300gr) at transonic and subsonic speeds and still be pretty darn accurate.
My vote is for 45 colt mainly because mine accurately shoots 325 grain bullets nearly as fast as 300 grain 45-70 loads factory loads. Big Bore Lite
3. want also to shoot hot loads as well as subsonic loads.
4. will reload
Lots of data out there for hot (Ruger/Contender) 45 Colt loads and mild "Cowboy" loads
5. Although I do not discard hunting, I am a plinker. But I like variety. I already have several 22 and 30 caliber guns (bolts and auto loaders). I want now something with a big bore and a mild rainbow trajectory that will still have a lot of energy at 100-150yds. I know that sounds like a .45-70 but I’d rather stick to calibers that will be easier to load subsonic.
I use my Marlin 1894 in 45 Colt for levergun silhouette, even with a moderate 250 grain load jogging along at 1200 fps the 100 yard rams go down with authority the chickens literally go flying

Shooting Cowboy loads in a 24" barrel is very quiet, I sometimes even forget to put on my hearing protection. I usually catch myself by noticing the hammer drop is more noticable than the report.

On the other end of the scale I've push the Lee 300 grain WFPRN cast bullet faster than my 44 mag 240 grain factory loads with Lil'gun and W296 powders and stayed well inside the published data. No need to go off the reservation in a levergun to get Big Bore performance. It is accurate out of my Ruger Blackhawk too though I would need a taller front sight if I wanted to zero the load inside of 75 yards or so. That bullet also works well at the low end of the velocity spectrum.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Heh! Modern 45 Colt brass is just fine. You can get the same velocities with the same weight bullets with less pressure from the 45 Colt as you can with the 44 Magnum.

PR787LV, my first posting in this thread would have been about buying a new wallet as the old one would have caught fire from the speed at which it would have left my back pocket upon finding a new Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt for $495. That's $200 less than what I've been seeing them for.

Of the two calibers, I'd choose the 45 Colt. It's versatile, accurate can be loaded to modern pressures in modern weapons and has more class than the 44 Magnum.

Seriously, can you imagine yourself holding your 44 Magnum saying "Ya feel lucky punk?" or the 45 Colt and "Fill yer hands ya sons of bitches!"

Ok, so the latter is better suited to the 44 WCF as they didn't chamber rifles for the 45 Colt back in the day.

Both are great calibers and wil serve you well. With the right bullets, the edge goes to the 45 Colt for hunting

Amen, thank you MistWolf!

 

[civilian75]

So, after reading a bit more about the Guide un and .45-70 for subsonic work, I am back to 45LC. I really should go quick and buy that used 1894 before one of you beat me to it. But, please, give me some feedback as to how to replace a barrel. Is that something that should be within my skills (I can replace barrels on a 10/22 AK, and a AR, for example). Is it like a Savae hard? Or, is it at the level of a Rem 700 receiver?

Come on, guys! Somebody out there ough to know! Hard as I tried, Google is turning up dry.

 

[Badlander]

Go to www.marlinowners.com for the info you seek.

 

[Ed Ames]

I have a '92 puma.

The only trick to shortening is that you'll need to shorten the magazine tube, which may mean the spring is stiffer than you want after you shorten it. Not a huge deal but the marlins will avoid the problem.

Mine is in .454, and it's a marvel. My opinion only. I load mostly light loads and switching from a 300+gr casull at something-teen hundred FPS to 250gr at <1000fps is paranoia inducing if you have any fear of squibs... much quieter, minimal recoil, a whole different shooting experience.

Mine feeds .45C and .454 flawlessly, and will sometimes give 11+1 of .45C (vs 10+1 of .454) in the 20" mag tube. These days the choice of large pistol (.45C brass) or small rifle (.454 casull brass) primers is a real boon.... I managed to snag 1000 small rifle primers recently while I haven't seen large pistol for a few months. I haven't had any problems with the rims or thin brass but I can't say it's never a problem. Hust hasn't been one for me.

And, for the person who said their next was going to be a puma .454 ... they are no longer making/importing the .454 model so once the current supply is gone you'll be searching the used market and I ain't sellin' mine.

 

[Big Bill]

Bear this note from "Buffalo Bore" in mind when you are looking for a Rifle:



NEW HEAVY 44 MAGNUM +P+

Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ Ammo - 340 gr. L.F.N. - G.C. (1,478 fps/M.E. 1,649 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

This new load is designed for only certain revolvers that have the cylinder length to handle it. They are as follows. Ruger Red Hawk, Ruger Super Red Hawk, Ruger Super Blackhawk or Vaquero, Freedom Arms Model 83, Taurus Raging Bull and Dan Wesson Revolvers. Suitable rifles include T/C Encore, "modified" Marlin 1894, Winchester 1894, any rifle with a falling block action and the Handi Rifle.

What do we mean above by "modified" Marlin? Marlin (for an unknown, not well thought out reason) is using a very slow rate of twist (1/38 inches) on their 1894 chambered in 44 mag. Because of this slow rate of twist, the heaviest bullet that the factory Marlin will stabilize is about 270grs. Other firearm makers that chamber for the 44 mag all use a much faster rate of twist so that their guns will stabilize and therefore accurately shoot bullets over 300grs. Many folks today want their 44 magnums to be able to utilize the heavy 300gr. and heavier bullets - Marlin has not figured this out. If you want decent accuracy out of our new +p+ load in a Marlin, it will need to be re-barreled with a twist rate of roughly 1/20 inch. I have Dave Clay re-barrel all my Marlin 1894's with a faster twist barrel. A 44 magnum that wont accurately shoot 300gr. or heavier bullets is useless to me. Call him at 817-783-6099 for pricing.

This load brings a level of power to the 44 mag. that has never before been known.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=54

 

[okotoks]

The 45 Colt is a lousy cartridge to shoot past 100 yards. In my '92 Rossi (45 Colt), Marbles receiver sight, I shoot 250-255 gr Lead with 9 gr or Unique or 18.5gr 2400. I need this ~1000fps velocity to get mine it to reliably group. and shoot at or over +/-100 yards. I shoot "Ruger blackhawk" 45 Colt +P loads in mine with no untoward effects. (probably 2000 rounds). This load is 1.5 grains under the standard 20 gr/2400 44Mag load with a 250 grain bullet, and it is a lot easier to shoot in 45 Colt!. This is a pistol cartridge is not a long range round. It was designed to shoot 37+Grains of Black powder and 250 grain bullet at about 890+ FPS. through a hand gun and stop what ever it hit.

Slower and or lighter loads like Trailboss, or any factory 45 Colt ammo, is a dream to shoot but scatter all over past 50 yards. I have a Uberti 44 WCF "73 sporting rifle that shoots rings around the Rossi but it has a piddling little 205 grain projectile. (8.x to 9 gr Unique or 16.5gr 5744). It will reliably shoot well past 100 yards. without needing any extra umph.

Either of them would kill a deer <100 yards, neither of the will reliably kill one further than that. Power factor 250 gr at ~1000 fps vs 400 grain bullet at 1600+fps, or 150 grain bullet at 3000+fps, or even 63grains at 3900fps (22-250), is against the pistol cartridge. The 45 colt will never "shoot cover leafs" at 100 yards. (barely at 50!) a 44MAG might (or should). 45-70 will, with a scope and load worked up for the specific rifle.

I don't believe there is much difference between the strength of different models, Marlin vs Winchester clone. The Winchester may break sooner, but that will still be after thousands of rounds. John Browning designed a fine rifle. The imports need some tuning, or a lot of shooting, to get them to cycle smooth.

Optics, I hate a scope on a lever gun, it is just obscene, but I did put on on my Marlins Guides stainless '95 45-70. (1.5x4 shotgun scope with high rings so I can still use the XO receiver sights) the marlin is easier to scope if your eyes are fading-like mine. It is even more ugly now, but it is the one I shoot the most, and the one I would keep if I had to make some painful choice. A 45-70 lever action, should be your first rifle, you may never have to buy another one.

 

[gglass]

I don't believe that you need to worry about the rate of twist with the newer LSI Puma .44 Mag rifles. For over a year, LSI has been listing the rate of twist as 1-20" for the 44 Magnums, but the still show a 1-38" for the .44-40 caliber versions.

I have not had any issues with accuracy or key holing rounds with any ammo in my .44 Mag Puma.

Current Puma Models:

.38/.357 Mag (1-18.75" Twist Rate)
44-40 Win (1-36" Twist Rate)
44 Rem Mag (1-20" Twist Rate)
45 Colt (1-16" Twist Rate)

This is my Puma .44 Mag's best 10-shot group at 50-yards with a scope.

 

[MistWolf]

Check this website. You'll find your answers here-> http://www.leverguns.com/

 

[Rob96]

This is what I have in mind and why:
1. want a big bore rifle. I have narrowed it down to 44Mag or 45LC.

Really, big bore levergun equals only one thing, A Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45/70!

 

[civilian75]

When I started researching this project, I never dreamed lever actions rifle would create such an incredible enthusiasm in me. I find myself wanting to get them all, the Guide gun in SS, the beautiful 45LC octagon, the short and handy 44Mag... I learned about the 454 Casul and how in practice one can shoot 45lc as well (although I wonder how practicable is that). I am in sooo much trouble

I visited to my friend yesterday. I checked his suppressed SBR 44meg Puma more closely. He cut it to SRBed to 10.5" (dang FFL/SOT's!!!). He also cut the magazine which is now help in place by the can. He confirmed zero baffle strikes shooting 240gr and 300gr, which I could not bring myself to believe. Now, thanks to gglass, we can see why. I also noticed the action got very stiff. He said it has happened over time and chalked it on increased back pressure from the suppressor. I kind of think it is just his Puma, but that's an unsubstantiated opinion.

If I could muster the courage and the $$, I'd buy the Puma 44Mag for the suppressed subsonic project, which I now think will also be SBRed (more taxes for our most beloved G-guys), the 1894 45LC, which I'd leave untouched and the Guide gun, which I'd have the barrel cut to 16.5" and threaded, too. They all have their strong points, although, I'll probably end up dropping the 45lc after all. It is a beautiful gun but I already have too many guns with poor accuracy, mostly of Russian manufacturing or design, though, and have turned into safe queens.

I started another thread to address my re-barreling question. I got great advise from a couple of prolific THR poster. In short, if the barrel is cut and indexed, it is no big deal. That's what O needed to know.

Will keep checking for any new posts. But I consider you've accomplished the goal and thoroughly answered my questions. Thanks a bunch to all.

 

[higene]

.45 Mag

Rossi makes a .454 in the Puma model 92. Does that sound like something that would work for you?

 

[ijosef]

I picked up a LNIB used one in .44 Mag not long ago at a GM for $200 OTD, and it was a pre c.'83 model without the saftey!

Wha...wha...what? You must have some crazy Gander Mountain stores by you, because the ones by me would never sell a LNIB Marlin lever gun in .44 mag for less than $200 OTD. They'd probably tag it at three times that. This is the same place that would sell you a box of 50 Winchester white box .44mag ammo for $49.95.

 

[civilian75]

Well, thanks everyone. Look what followed me home the other day!

Got .45-70 reloading stuff right away, a couple of LeveRevolution boxes, loaded a few subsonics with 405gr Laser-Cast on top of Trailboss, and took off for the range. Love it!! Yesterday, I picked Titegroup, SR 4759 and RL7 for my next round of loads.

 

[civilian75]

BTW, my friend, the FFL/SOT, is selling his M92 shorty. Chech it out here:
http://www.shop.orl-llc.com/SBR-Rossi-Model-92-44mag-SBRRossi92.htm

 

[Maverick223]

That ain't no sissy gun...I like it.

 

[Nick5182]

I've got a winchester 94 in .30-30, and I love it. Compact, reliable, accurate just a great gun. The downside is that they are no longer made, and the action is not nearly as smooth as a Marlin. For pistol calibers you can always go for a Yellow Boy or Big Boy. I'm not certain if Marlin makes lever guns in pistol calibers. My Dad has a winchester 94 pre-cross bolt safety in .45 Colt with a 16" barrel, and it is an awesome gun.

 

[Nick5182]

I'd love to get one of those Marlin guide guns in .45-70, just like yours. I think at the local shop here they go for about 599 or so.