Pietta v Uberti

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Docinfrance

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I have a pietta 1851 navy colt in stainless and I'm pretty happy with it, it's an absolute king compared to my first brass framed revolver of questionable parentage but I really fancy a Remington closed top model (maybe a target model).
I'll be sticking with stainless (probably... as you never know what you might fall in love with in the shop once you get that 'new gun funk' on).

Looking at pics of the Uberti it looks slightly better made then the pietta but I've never held one (maybe in Lucerne next month) so I can't make a comparison.

Is the Uberti worth the extra money?
Is there another make of s/s Target Remington or R&S I've missed?
 
I have owned both. Uberti was much better. It is to my understanding that Pietta's quality has greatly improved recently.
 
I have 4 Ubertis now ( Well, one's the Beretta goldrush rifle, but it's made by Uberti ). All are near flawlessly crafted. I had to do minor action work on my two BP revolvers to make them function better, but overall, the fit and finish are amazing.
I looked into Piettas once, but the ones I looked at weren't very impressive. The steel didn't even look as good. The store owner told me that Pietta presses alot of there parts rather than machining or casting them like Uberti does.
Unless you can check out a Pietta in person and see that it's nice, I wouldn't take the chance. Get an Uberti. I've bought from Taylors, Thunder ridge and Buffalo arms, but Cimmaron and EMF are great too from what I've seen.
 
I have picked up some recent Piettas which are very nice. I rather doubt they "press" their parts. In recent years their quality has gone up and they have improved their color-case hardening and many a richer now than earlier models.
Ubertis are technically better; I agree with that. But Uberti color case hardening is just not quite as good -- in fact as good as the revolvers are IMHO Uberti has always been not quite as good as it should be with regards the color case hardening on their guns, though I have seen good work on their rifles.
 
Coke vs. Pepsi these days...

The Pietta 1861s I got a year ago are every bit as well made as my Uberti I sold the year before.

What it all comes down to is doing a good inspection at time of purchase and a taking care of your toys.

A good action job is something both manufacturers can take advantage of.
 
I'd agree with that, about the CCH finish. Uberti is hit or miss, same with the Walnut figure. I was lucky with my 3rd Dragoon, it has great flames walnut, but the color finish is weak.
My Beretta Gold Rush ( Lighting rifle ) has an amazing CCH receiver, but its a "faux" CCH chemical I guess. Either way, great finish! :
http://web.mac.com/jarrod_taylor/iWeb/Site/Guns.html

I'm planning on a Walker for my next purchase, not sure whether it'll be Uberti or one of the Colt reissues.
 
While I agree with the comments regarding Pietta's improvements in quality, I cannot agree about Uberti's case hardening being 'weak'. I have 5 Uberti revolvers; all have very nice case hardening, comparing favorably to Colt's 2nd Generation guns.

Which brings me to a point - the Colt 2nd Generation guns are clearly better fit and finish, but they also cost twice as much as the Ubertis. And for another doubling in cost you can get one of USFA's guns, which exhibit to my mind the best finish ever sold on a reproduction revolver. Kind of like, you get what you pay for, eh?
 
I do agree that Uberti could do a little better with the CCH finish, but I also think it depends on the specifications of the importer ( EMF, Cimmaron, Taylors...) . Mine aren't bad at all, but I've seen better Ubertis. That's good I guess, knowing they can make absolutely fine guns.
I like the newer Colt Walker Reissue, I may wait and find one this spring, unless a good Uberti deal comes along.
 
Well just my .02 I have both, both recent, pietta not even close to Uberti in finish and smoothness,I went inside the Uberti, and did a little cleaning and smoothing and really made it sweet! [1849 pocket]
The pietta is a 1851 navy, case colors are WEAK, and action felt like it had sand inside. Granted I may have gotten a monday morning gun! After a little cleaning and a LOT of polishing its fine for what I want.
Really not that big of deal, but I would spend the extra for Uberti
 
IMHO the oil finished grips and full case coloring of the piettas look nicer than ubertis, but ubertis run much smoother than pietta's in my experience.
 
I have 2 Uberti 61 Navies and 3 Colt signature series navies the difference is night and day the colts CCH is deeper and richer fit and finish are far superior and the actions are better. If you can find them get colts.
 
Hello Docinfrance,

Are you really sure that your Pietta 1851 navy colt is stainless ? Would not it be polished steel rather, because as far as I know, stainless Pietta Colt are not available presently.......
Beware that some shop in France publicise stainless pistol that are rather polished steel !

Have fun
 
The "stainless Pietta" Colt is probably not actually stainless. The Remingtons are stainless. The Colt Pietta's that are "in the white" are (as the info came from Pietta thru a forum member at anothewr site) actually a specially hardened steel that is more rust resistant. Hardened steel. That makes for a better gun I think.
When comparing Uberti and Pietta the mechanical attributes have to be considered.(unless the guns "jest fer lookin at) The Guns of Pietta were the last I saw having chambers much closer to the diameter of the barrel grooves. More the way a gun should be. Uberti has in the past had chambers really undersized compared to the groove diameter of the barrels. I've guns that were made by Uberti that had chambers as much as .013 inch. undersized compared to the barrel grooves. Pietta has the guns more in the area of the chambers .003-.005 undersized. The closer the chamber size of a cap&baller is to the barrel groove diameter the more consistantly accurate they shoot. The Uberti's may have been improved upon in that area of the "undersized chambers' recently. I need to buy an up to dateUbereti to examine. Since the Bennelli Family bought Uberti and put it in the Beretta shop next door there have been changes made. I've noticed with some parts I've ordered to do jobs that Uberti has made improvements in the parts I was sent. People with the new Uberti's can check the specs in things like the hand hole in the hammers,the hammers main screw specs compared to the hammers hole, timing where as the action locks up nice at the point the trigger hits full cock, alignment of the chambers to the barrel grooves ect.ect.ect.
All the cap&ballers are a crap shoot to buy. May be good,may be sloopy. That's the way they come to the US in a "range" of quality control. The retailers or importers buy in the "range". Pay more for a higher grade or get a better deal for accepting some of the lesser guns with blems and defects.
One thing I know for sure. Pietta's are improved immensely since they put in all the new CNC machines. That takes us back to mechanics.
Pietta has a trait in the Colts I simply love. The arbor is in the barrel hole snug with less slop. The arbor bottoms out in the hole when the bottom lug of the barrel meets or comes within a .001 or .002 of the frame where the pins are. That makes for a much better mechanical fit to the gun. I applaud Pietta for that since it would be difficult to machine that close a tolerance into so many mass produced guns. The mechanicas of that trait is the way the guns should be built. The opposite wouild be the Ubert's I've worked on and own. The arbor hole is much too sloppy of an overly large fit to the size of the arbors. The arbor doesn't bottom put in the barrels hole. The result is the pinched cylinder that can be immobilized by putting the wedge in a little too much. It shouldn't be needed to use a feeler gauge or whatever to reassemble the barrel to a Colt cap&baller to make sure the cylinder gap isn't too small. The wedge should go in till it stops solid and the gap and other parts should be right. That's proper mechanics and tolerances. Because of the better mechanics to the Pietta Colts I'll take one of them over a Uberti if Pietta offers the model I want. The last several Pietta I bought were timed and constructed very well.
I have to conclude that Pietta has a better gun mechnically(Colts mostly) as far as I've seen. I have to be fair and say that I haven't examined one of the newer Uberti's that are coming out now. They are said to have been improved and I've seen the improvements in a few "parts" I've bought.
I've knowledge that Uberti is changing some things in an effort to minimize the number of different parts made for the models they make. They are said to be trying to put the same parts in as many different models as they can so they have to make less types of the same parts. You know, like they already do in like parts in the 1851's and the 1860's and the Open Tops ect.ect. The lists that VTI GunParts puts up on their site can be compared to see the like parts that are in differnt models.
One thing is for sure.....both Uberti and Pietta have their dang cylinder steel way too soft. The bolts can damage the cylinders after the very first few workings of the actions. When I buy or have a gun to fix for someone, the first thing I do before working the action is to loosen the trigger/bolt spring to minimize the deformation they cause around and "in" the cylinder notches. I think one improvement that Uberti and Pietta can both make is to use better steel in the cylinders more lke the steel they use in the cartridge guns they make. Harder. It's a disgrace to make such nice cap&ballers as both Pietta and Uberti do and make them with cylinder steel akin to jello. If they don't want to use a different steel than they should at least try to harden it some. Well, thats my two cents worth.:D
 
Thanks for you comments. Many things worth considering.

I do have one disagreement - there is no reason to allow action timing that results in the bolt damaging the cylinder. This is not a matter of making harder cylinders that can stand damage but rather of timing the action so the opportunity for damage is mitigated.

But, if you really feel that allowing poor timing is acceptable, I suggest that surface hardening of the cylinder is the way to go rather than using a harder steel. The harder the steel the more brittle it becomes, and less tolerant of overloads and impact (recoil) damage. I wouldn't personally surface harden the cylinder as correcting the timing is easier, less expensive and more effective, but it's better than changing the cylinder material, in my opinion.
 
Good post there, Rifle. Very informative.
If the cylinders of the Italian guns are made of softer steel, what about the innards?
Then there's the "R" word - Ruger. The metal seems stronger and lighter.
 
hello,

As previously explained by Rifle, I have also noticed that Pietta Colts are superior to Uberti regarding this point : "The arbor bottoms out in the hole when the bottom lug of the barrel meets or comes within a .001 or .002 of the frame where the pins are. That makes for a much better mechanical fit to the gun. "

Practically it means that you can take the wedge in and out by hand, disassemble and reassemble in 3 secondes with a Pietta, and you will need a hammer and a lot of adjustment with a Uberti. That makes a big difference at the range or if you use a loading stand.

As for Pietta in the white, I have the 1860 army with ivory grip and white polish finish and unfortunately some stains have appeared (looks like grey water stains). I could polish them away but they should be back soon so I live it as it is.

By the way Rifle, do you think that the steel of cap and ball pistol is softer than the SAA cartridge pistol of the same manufacturer (Pietta or Uberti) at the same period of time?
If we consider for instance the Pietta or Uberti SAA 1873 Colt conversion cap and ball : do you think the manufacturer would change the quality of steel between the cartridge and cap/ball version?



Have fun
 
Thanks for all the info. One of the things I'm happiest about with my Navy is the good tollerances in cylinder to barrel fit. I can't tell if it is SS or just hardened, It looks, feels, cleans and polishes up like stainless.
It's a Navy .44 and they called it a 2007 model when I bought it last year.
I know what you mean about the about the sand in the action comment, mine felt exactly the same when I bought it but I stripped it down and cleaned it up with some 2400 paper and the action seems good enough now with an even pull.

As for different quality depending on the importer I've been looking at Cabela's with a view to importing back into France.
French 'Amouries' are much more expensive then the US, maybe because they shift less guns, but this does mean a considerable saving if I buy from the US (even with shipping and import taxes).
How do I know if Cabela's guns are firsts or seconds?
 
One thing to be aware of regarding Ubertis and Piettas is that Pietta tends to cover their barrels and other parts with un-necessary stampings in the most conspicuous areas, whereas Uberti hides theirs. Has nothing to do with function, but a lot to do with form...
 
Mykeal, I tried to understand what you were relaying about "timing" being correct thus there's no damage to a soft cylinder by the bolt. If there's some miracle timing secrete you know of that will stop the bolt of a Colt SA from hitting the cylinder somewhere you have to let me in on that one. If you insist on keeping it a secrete though I'll not fret too much about it. :p I don't type or write real well so I guess you could have misinterpreted my meaning but.....I don't know where you got the idea I "insist on bad timing". I know....you're just hacking on me like a joke right? I'm laughing. :D You got me Bud.:rolleyes: Pohill put you up to it right?:cuss:
I don't know about those 1873 SAA percussion revolvers so I can't guess about them. If the cylinders don't get peened by the bolt then I guess the cylinders are hard enough. Maybe the timing ,as Mykeal relays, is right on?
My older Uberti's,which I'm very fond of, have loose arbor holes in the barrels. They don't pinch the cylinder or have the barrels cant down at the breech end and cant up at the muzzle end of the barrel since I shim them. I lay a soft metal shim on the top front of the arbor over the wedge slot and insert it as I assemble the barrels. That makes for "no space" for loose in the barrels arbor hole when the arbor is in it. No loose space in the barrels arbor hole when the arbor is installed is actually better than a bottomed arbor in the barrel hole. The only thing better is a tight snug fit of the arbor in the barrels hole AND a bottomed arbor. The Piettas are close to that since the loose in the barrels arbor hole when the arbor is in it is minimal. I'd have to add that one of the possible improvements the Uberti's have is a tight arbor in the barrel hole. I orderd a Uberti barrel for a Navy Colt and the barrel is perfectly snug on the arbor. That is an improvement to me since that's the first I've seen like that. It feels good every time I twist that baby on to the arbor. Finally a Uberti barrel that is a snug push fit to the arbor.
I read two gun mag articles about Uberti 1851's where the authors complained that once the barrels were on it was very difficult to get them off. The one author relayed that even using the loading lever to wrench the barrel off didn't do the trick. I imagine he didn't give the loading lever a quick little wack with a hammer handle of rubber mallet or the wood end of a screw driver. A punch is always more forceful than a shove in most cases.:D Anywhooo....I didn't mention that the new Uberti cylinder I bought ,in the same order as the barrel for a "51" that was tight on the arbor, had chambers that are .003 larger in diameter than the barrels grooves diameter did I? That is an improvement in my book. I couldn't say whether or not all the barrels or cylinders from Uberti for cap&ballers follow suit. Take care Pards.
 
I don't know any secret - it's just a matter of bending/polishing the bolt arms, trigger/bolt spring and the cam on the side of the hammer until they work together properly. The timing should be such that the bolt does not extend far enough to contact the cylinder until the cylinder anticipation notch is in place. This whole process can be observed with the trigger guard removed and adjustments made in one or two evenings with an India stone, fine rat tail file and emery cloth. Or if one is really brave, a Dremel tool. And if you mess it up, the parts are just a few dollars to replace.

The Colt single action design is a masterpiece of simplicity and function. Unfortunately the parts are often not well enough made to take full advantage of that fact. But fine adjustment is well within the capability of most home enthusiasts, whereas changing the cylinder material properties is not. There are a number of books and threads on bp forums describing how it works and how it can be adjusted.

I apologize for my tone - I did not intend to be interpreted as critical as my earlier post turned out. It was not clearly worded and I'm sorry for that.
 
Hey Mykeal,don't be sorry for anything. It's just all about having a chit chat with friends. The more we talk the more info gets passed around. We all have something to add to the recipe. Don't be put off by my sense of humor. It's a little off the wall when it's typed and not spoken.
I know about that timing scenario. Some other guy may not so the more opinions he reads the more he can develope his own.
I try to bring up the soft cylinder steel for the benifit of ,say, a pard new to cap&ballers. I hate to see those new guns with the deformation on the cylinders. Timing does play a role. Getting the bolt leg shortened on those Piettas so the bolt doesn't peen down the edge of the cylinder notch into the notch and having the bolt hit further back in the ramp away from the edge is important. A gun with hard steel can have the bolt hit next to the notch edge but not the cap&ballers. Shortening the bolts leg that rides the hammer cam to get the bolt hitting further rom the notch edge in the ramp is one thing to do. The next thing is to lighten the bolts spring so the bolt doesn't hit the cylinder hard enough to peen the metal. The bolt can peen the ramp even and make a rough action.The bumps it causes make a rough ride for the bolt to slide on. I always recommend people loosen the bolt/trigger spring 1/4th to 1/2 a turn from tight tight. That helps keep the bolt from damaging the cylinder.
I wish the Italian gun makers would realize it's a shame to make nice guns that the bolt damages the cylinders too easily. It's just a dang shame. A person can't very easily learn to harden a cap&ball cylinder since the manufacturers won't devulge the type of steel the cylinders are made of so a person can harden ansd temper correctly. I think the manufacturers should harden the cap&ball cylinders themselves. They know more than we do about it. The only good point about it is that the replacement cylinders are relativily cheap. Knock on wood. You're a Gentleman and a scholar Mykeal. Best wishes and have a nice Thanksgiving Holiday. May we all have a good holiday.
 
Hey Docinfrance ...

I've been thinking of purchasing an "in the white" Pietta like yours. Is the grip frame solid steel? Or is it nickel plated brass?
 
springs.......

I used to have more problems with springs in the Pietta guns, but have had far fewer problems the last 5 years or so.
I tend to like the Uberti guns a little more, but I have both, and they all work well.

Good Shootin!!
DarryH
Nebraska
 
Here's my .02 cents.
I have an 1860 Colt Open Top Army by Pietta, and an 1858 Remington by Uberti. Everytime I go into a store I compare the Pietta's to the Uberti's. One thing I have noticed is the Uberti's are becoming harder to find in stores, but on every occasion the small details have been better on the Uberti. If you see them side by side its small features like the trigger shape, or the amount of force in hammer strike (Spring I know, but always stronger for the Uberti). Now having said all that, I really like both manufacturers and wouldn't care which one you gave me as a gift, but fewer misfires will come from a Uberti.
KKKKFL
 
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