Pilot to be fired for accidental discharge

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Braz1956

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http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/17/pilot.gun/index.html



Group: Pilot whose gun went off will be fired

(CNN) -- An US Airways pilot who aviation officials say accidentally fired his handgun in the cockpit during a flight will be fired, a spokesman for a flight officers group said.

The airline has begun the termination process for Capt. James Langenhahn, said Mike Karn, vice president of the Federal Flight Deck Officers Association.

Langenhahn told police that he was stowing his gun in the cockpit of a jet preparing to land in Charlotte, North Carolina, last month when it accidentally fired. The federal Transportation Security Administration is investigating the incident.

Calls to Langenhahn's home in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, were not immediately returned.

In an e-mail, US Airways representative Morgan Durrant said the company's policies prevent it from commenting publicly on a personnel matter.

Karn said his group, which represents pilots who are federally trained and allowed to carry firearms on flights, will fight the termination.

"This was accidental not intentional," Karn said. "This is not the way to treat a long-term pilot."

He said he did not know how long Langenhahn, 55, has been a pilot for US Airways but said he is a veteran with the airline.

The bullet from the H&K USP .40-caliber handgun penetrated the left side of the jet's fuselage but did not hit any crucial wiring or instrumentation, the TSA said.

The gun discharge was the first public incident of its kind in the history of the Federal Flight Deck Officer program, which has trained thousands of pilots to carry weapons in an effort to improve aviation safety.

Created in the wake of the September 11 attacks, the program was approved by Congress as part of the Homeland Security Act on November 25, 2002.

All AboutTransportation Security Administration • US Airways Group Inc.
 
Langenhahn told police that he was stowing his gun in the cockpit of a jet preparing to land in Charlotte, North Carolina, last month when it accidentally fired.
Without knowledge of the procedures that apply to the situation, I do wonder why the gun had not been stowed upon take-off rather than in "preparation for landing". Regardless, I suspect the actual procedure used for stowing violates one or more of the 4 Rules of Firearm Safety.
 
Without knowledge of the procedures that apply to the situation, I do wonder why the gun had not been stowed upon take-off rather than in "preparation for landing". Regardless, I suspect the actual procedure used for stowing violates one or more of the 4 Rules of Firearm Safety.
The FSDO holster and the procedures using it will turn your face white. It's how you would create an ND, if you were out to do so.

Among other things, there's a lock that goes through the trigger guard of the loaded weapon. And the weapon must be locked every time the pilot leaves the cockpit.
 
Who needs a .50 BMG when we now know a .40 will penetrate the fuselage just fine.

Who will be the first bonehead politician that will declare .40 cal guns as terrorist guns that will bring down an airplane?
 
:eek: Good grief! This puts every plane (and all aboard) at risk. In there any question that the axe needs to fall higher up in the FAA, rather than on a pilot?
 
So it IS to be stowed loaded ! What good is an empty gun right ?
 
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Its my understanding that the gun went off when the lock (goes through the trigger guard) caused the weapon to discharge. It appears that if the gun is not Fully in the holster, the lock will go in front of the trigger.

The regs also require that the firearm is locked when the aircraft is on the ground.

From the sound of things, its a miracle that a ND didn't occur sooner.

Firing the pilot is a B.S. PR move, CYA on the part of the airline.
 
With all the stupid rules stacked up for an almost guaranteed AD then I would just not bother if I were a pilot.

Pilots is there to fly the plane anyway not be a security guard. If he/she can't do a regular CCW on an airplane then what's the point.
 
I have personally seen one of the holsters provided to pilots. A guy I practiced with a couple of times, a pilot, switched to that holster to gain experience with it.

There is a leather loop that is supposed to go under the trigger guard when re-holstering. That piece of leather kept catching on the front of the guard and not seating properly.

I could see a lock winding up in that leather loop, but, in front of the trigger. To better describe the problem, the hole for the lock weakens the leather that normally fully covers the trigger opening. So, when the leather catches on the front of the trigger guard, the lock can be placed in the wrong location, in front of the trigger.

The other strange thing about this program of pilots willing to defend us as we fly: the pilots must pay for their equipment, ammo and practice.

The government needs to start respecting the responsibility these people take on voluntarily.

BTW, this guy is a great shot and I'd be happy with him in the cockpit.
 
Not surprising. Had he waited until he was on the ground where his attention wasn't divided, and followed the proceedure to secure his weapon, he'd not be in termination proceedings.

procedure required that the gun be locked up and stowed before landing...
 
Wow, I just don't get the whole let's put stuff in the trigger guard of a loaded gun... and since all guns are to be treated as loaded, putting anything in the trigger guard period, right?

I don't know if the pilot did anything 'wrong' or not based on their screwy policies, but it sucks for him, pilots, passengers, and gun owners in general.

Just shows how government can screw up even a good idea.

Karz
 
It's stupid freaking rules creating a dangerous situation because the people who wrote them didn't know jack squat. They should have commended him for following the other rules, and keeping it pointed in a safe direction.
 
Not surprising. Had he waited until he was on the ground where his attention wasn't divided, and followed the proceedure to secure his weapon, he'd not be in termination proceedings.
Once again, pilots do have to go potty, and the TSA procedures require the pilots to secure their weapon every time they leave the cockpit. They don't have a choice.

Bad procedure, bad holster.
 
I'm thinking if the storage rules are unsafe I wouldn't bother. A gun on a plane is very defensive only anyways. Even armed the pilots are told not to open the cockpit door for ANY reason. People are being killed outisde, tortured, whatever. They are never supposed to open the door, gun or not. That being said, looks like they need to work on this program a little more...
 
Hard to say what happened.

If the pilot was playing around with his gun (unholstering, showing it to his first officer, or whatever) he probably deserves to lose his job.

If it occured as the YouTube video showed, that may be another story.

Nevertheless, I carry a gun on-duty in a holster ten hours a day, no less than four days per week... Whenever I am away from home off-duty, I also carry.

I personally have never had a snap holster come loose for a reason like the YouTube video stated. I have a mechanical "hooded" holster retention system on my current duty weapon (safariland holster), and it has occasionally "unsnaped" by being hit once or twice... My job is certainly more rigorous than an airline pilot's duties while flying an airliner (I run, fight, wrestle, drive, etc while wearing that gun). Still, the weapon has never moved from it's properly retained postion, even in the remote instance where it has come unsnapped while wrestling with a turd.

My current off-duty rig doesn't even have a retention strap, and I've never lost a gun (or ended up with a gun half out of the holster in it).

So, while I'm not saying that it isn't possible that this could have happened in a benign way, I am inclined to believe that the problem very well may have been on the pilot's shoulders! Keep in mind, the other pilot was almost certainly interviewed, and cockpit conversations are recorded on airliners.

In other words, perhaps we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is a good/bad termination until more of the facts are available to us!
 
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