Pilots say TSA not supportive of gun program

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rick_reno

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This article must be an error - there is no way President Bush would allow the TSA to drag their feet in arming the pilots.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7178784/

Pilots say TSA not supportive of gun program

TSA disputes complaint, says agency wants to train pilots

Updated: 8:10 a.m. ET March 14, 2005 WASHINGTON - While the pace of training and deployment of armed pilots on commercial flights has picked up, supporters of the program say the Bush administration still is making it unnecessarily difficult for crews to take guns into the cockpit.

Pilots who monitor the program estimate that between 4,000 and 4,500 have been trained and deputized to carry guns since the Federal Flight Deck Officer program began in April 2003. That total is about three times as many as a year ago, yet a fraction of the 95,000 pilots who fly for U.S. airlines.

David Mackett, president of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance, a group formed to lobby for guns in the cockpit, said tens of thousands of his colleagues are interested in the program.

“We have an armed pilots program that’s arming very few pilots,†said Mackett, who hasn’t signed up because of the way the program is run. He said many others won’t join for the same reason.

Mackett contends the Transportation Security Administration isn’t moving to get substantially more pilots trained to carry guns because it has never really wanted the program.

TSA spokesman Mark Hatfield disputed that, saying agency chief David Stone fully backs the effort and that procedures have been changed to more quickly get pilots into the program.

“I’ve got a pipeline with a couple of thousand applicants and we’re running two full classes a week,†Hatfield said. The TSA can train about 50 pilots per class.

Hatfield said he couldn’t disclose which procedures had been adjusted because of the program’s sensitive security nature.

The exact number of armed pilots is classified. No pilot has fired a weapon, either intentionally or accidentally, while on duty, according to TSA spokeswoman Andrea McCauley.

Reluctantly backed by TSA
The TSA initially opposed the program, worrying that introducing a weapon to a commercial flight was dangerous and that other security enhancements since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks made it unnecessary. The agency reluctantly endorsed the idea when it was clear Congress was behind it.

The Bush administration now wants to spend $7 million more on arming pilots in 2006 than the $25.3 million this year. The increase will mostly go toward retraining pilots who already carry firearms, according to a TSA spokeswoman, Amy von Walter.

Pilots must volunteer, take a psychological test and complete a weeklong firearms training program run by the government to keep a gun in the cockpit. Mackett said it can take from two months to a year to get a gun from the time an online application is submitted. Some pilots never even hear back from the TSA, he said.

Mackett said the psychological testing and background checks are unnecessary because pilots already have been carefully vetted by their airlines to be able to fly commercial jets.

Hatfield countered that the requirements are needed because of the unique stresses of defending a plane from terrorists while trying to fly it.

“All of the testing, including the psych portion, is designed to ensure we have the most capable candidates for this extremely demanding job,†he said.

“Unlike other law enforcement jobs, it’s not just about making a life-or-death decision and waiting for backup. It’s about making that decision and then turning around and flying the plane again.â€

Another pilots’ group, the Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations, gave the TSA a “D†for the guns-in-the-cockpit program as part of its annual “Aviation Security Report Card.â€

Both pilot groups object to the requirement that pilots carry their government-issue semiautomatic guns in a lockbox when they’re not in the cockpit and to store it in the cargo hold when they’re traveling but not flying a plane.

Coalition president Jon Safle said that forcing pilots to give up their guns is “just not a smart thing to do†and that it exposes the weapons to loss or theft.

Last year, Congress failed to pass a bill that would speed the application and training process, allow pilots to carry guns in holsters and let those among them with military or law enforcement backgrounds carry guns immediately.

Mackett said the pilots will try again this year.
 
Pilots say TSA not supportive of gun program.
Well, from the FFDOs that I have talked with I have learned that the above quote is bunk.

That quote comes from someone at Airline Pilots Security Alliance, a lobbying group. As with most groups claiming to represent a large group of people the vocal minority usually controls the reins.

The information that I have says the program is pretty easy to get in to. Sure, there are a few hoops to jump through, but it doesn't seem that bad.

Remember that the FFDOs are Federal Officers. Just getting deputized as a Federal Officer is cause for massive amounts of red tape.
 
Just getting deputized as a Federal Officer is cause for massive amounts of red tape.
Why? Why not just deputize them and be done with it? Why not allow them to CCW as they could up until the early 70's?

Pilots used to be required to carry a gun if the plane was carrying US mail. And now they need special psychological testing? That's obviously just BS to discourage pilots from arming themselves.
 
Pilots used to be required to carry a gun if the plane was carrying US mail. And now they need special psychological testing? That's obviously just BS to discourage pilots from arming themselves.

Your statement begs the question...pilots are certified psychologically sound enough to operate a commercial aircraft, but they need an "extra" bit of testing to carry a firearm... :fire:
 
The whole armed-pilots fiasco has just shown that President G. W. Bush is less pro-gun in practice than Senator Barbara Boxer. If he really wanted armed pilots, then we would already have armed pilots on every plane.

~G. Fink
 
I really don't think BUSH is the problem here guys....sheesh!

The whole thing would have been shut down if Bush and Congress didn't make a big deal about it.

The Bush administration now wants to spend $7 million more on arming pilots in 2006 than the $25.3 million this year.

Yeah...Bush has shut off this program!

It's all Bush's fault. :banghead: :barf:
 
One aspect not mentioned in the article, that I would like some of our THR pilots to answer. Apparently this deep background check, including additional psych testing, for gun certification; could result in a pilot not only being refused the gun, but losing his flying license as well! Any truth to this?

Its pretty obvious that the issue is being slow-walked into the ground. Bush, as executive, bears some responsibility, doesn't he? How 'bout spending some of that "political capital" I keep hearing about?
:fire:

Mineta_homepg.jpg
 
What - I will sign the AWB renewal GWB isn't pushing for armed pilots? That can't be. Let's look up the dresses of Grandma instead for liberty.

Bush is a gun phoney. He did enough blather on the RKBA to look better than Kerry and now he doesn't give a poopy. Those who have to be blindly loyal to the leader refuse to accept that. He has the power, if he doesn't use it - that's all I need to know.
 
Psychological testing for High Flying, High Speed Airline Pilots armed with tons of metal and loaded with human cargo? Give them the guns. What a dog a pony show! :rolleyes: More Govt stupidity (bias) at its best. :eek:
 
Imagine the sense of security you would feel as a traveler if the pilot were standing at the cockpit door with a holstered .45 at his side.
Welcome aboard!
Mineta should have been fired in January 2001.
 
It was obvious from the gitgo that the whole program was designed to inhibit participation. They started with one training location, at Roswell, NM, IIRC. That's an awkward location at best. Heck with it, I'm not going into details; everything I've ever read of the description struck me as anti-arming.

As usual, the proof of the pudding is in the actual funding requested by the Administration and enabled by the House Appropriations Committee.

Art
 
Your statement begs the question...pilots are certified psychologically sound enough to operate a commercial aircraft, but they need an "extra" bit of testing to carry a firearm...
And your statement raises the question: WHY do you feel they need extra psychological testing? Do you have a valid concern, or some inside knowledge on this topic? Or are you just buying the TSA line of BS?
 
I keep hearing that pilots were required to carry weapons if the aircraft was hauling mail. Can someone tell me exactly when this was? I can tell you for a fact that it hasn't been true quite a while, since I've flown freight aircraft with varying amounts of mail on board since 1987. As far as I know it was a lot longer than that, since I've never heard of it in recent times. The only reference to carriage of firearms I can remember is mention in General Operations Manuals from the '70s ALLOWING pilots to carry if their company authorized it. (I suspect that was a holdover even then and the FAA would have had a collective stroke if someone had actually carried while operating an airliner, freight or passenger.

I have to question the "support" the TSA and other governmental departments are giving. Until I don't have to carry in a box risking loss or theft, I won't be applying. Real support would make the process easier, not mealymouthing about needing to "be able turn around and fly the airplane afterwards." I wonder if they think it's better to have nobody flying the airplane, since the crew was unable to repel boarders and is dead?
 
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