armoredman
Member
I would buy into a cheap raffle.. 
..no way could I buy into an auction.
..no way could I buy into an auction. 
PING! Oleg and Mods; Good cause Auction Idea!
- Thread starter bigjim
- Start date
- Status
OK I am convinced this is do-able based on the interest show so far.
Now its just a matter of THR being able to host this. Once again guys lets not roast Oleg if he says no. There may very well be problems with this.
It will need to stay simple and easy.
Standing by.......
Now its just a matter of THR being able to host this. Once again guys lets not roast Oleg if he says no. There may very well be problems with this.
It will need to stay simple and easy.
Standing by.......
Just a follow-up to Preacherman's note. So far all Staff we have heard from say it sounds good to them. As soon as we hear from Oleg (he's been away for a short period), we'll let you know.
Personally, I would say you can start the detailed planning now.
Oh, and by the way, I hope no one gets all bent out of shape if a moderator wins the Garand. THR will host the raffle/auction, but we sure as heck won't standby without buying some tickets!
Personally, I would say you can start the detailed planning now.
Oh, and by the way, I hope no one gets all bent out of shape if a moderator wins the Garand.
THR will host the raffle/auction, but we sure as heck won't standby without buying some tickets!Thanks Mal,
I will think about this today and try to come up with a plan that wont consume my life for weeks and weeks and still have a measure of security
for all the stake holders.
It would be great if someone known to the forum here with a paypal account could hold the rifle and the money. Maybe a FFL holder to make this real easy. Bottom line is somehow we need to get this done.
I had not thought about this beyond just selling tickets and putting them in Jar for my wife or a buddy to draw a winner from. Clearly that will not be enough to keep everyone happy.
bigjim
I will think about this today and try to come up with a plan that wont consume my life for weeks and weeks and still have a measure of security
for all the stake holders.
It would be great if someone known to the forum here with a paypal account could hold the rifle and the money. Maybe a FFL holder to make this real easy. Bottom line is somehow we need to get this done.
I had not thought about this beyond just selling tickets and putting them in Jar for my wife or a buddy to draw a winner from. Clearly that will not be enough to keep everyone happy.
bigjim
Yeah, that's the problem with an internet raffle. If we were all in a great big auditorium and you sold tickets and drew one right away it would be so much easier.
Hmmm - how big is your living room?
One thing's for certain, we don't want to make this complicated and too hard on you. That would take all the fun and joy out of it.
Hmmm - how big is your living room?
One thing's for certain, we don't want to make this complicated and too hard on you. That would take all the fun and joy out of it.
Since everyone who is interested in this will be reading this thread, I'll go ahead ask the question:
Would anyone have a problem with bigjim receiving the ticket sales and he and his wife drawing the winner from a hat, so to speak? Personally, I have no problem with that. It would make life for the next couple of weeks so much easier for him.
Speak now or forever hold your peace!
Would anyone have a problem with bigjim receiving the ticket sales and he and his wife drawing the winner from a hat, so to speak? Personally, I have no problem with that. It would make life for the next couple of weeks so much easier for him.
Speak now or forever hold your peace!
mrtgbnkr
Member
no problem here...I was just relaying a method I've seen before ...(albeit on a much smaller scale).
JohnBT
Member
I don't have a problem with it.
Of course, I never win either.
FWIW, IIRC, I entered a raffle for a Searcy double rifle once and they used the last whole number digit of the Dow Jones Industrial Average for three days in a row to get the 3-digit winning number. Talk about waiting and suffering. Of course, if I'd won I'd likely need another back surgery. No-I-don't-have-a-gambling-problem.
John
Of course, I never win either.
FWIW, IIRC, I entered a raffle for a Searcy double rifle once and they used the last whole number digit of the Dow Jones Industrial Average for three days in a row to get the 3-digit winning number. Talk about waiting and suffering. Of course, if I'd won I'd likely need another back surgery. No-I-don't-have-a-gambling-problem.
John
jefnvk
Member
Here is an idea, that could get around people thinking that something wasn't valid. This is using the 1000 tickets, and pick three. You take the orders, assigining the numbers as they are ordered. For example, the first guy orders 5 tickets, he gets numbers 000-004. Next person orders 17, they get from 005-021, etc. You keep that list, and don't tell people their number. When the orders are done, make a copy of that and send it to a third party not in the drawing, perhaps a moderator.
Yet another party will do the drawing. It will not matter if they are in the drawing or not, as they don't know their number. Put number 0-9 in three hats. The first hat is the hundreds place, the second hat is the tens, and the third is the ones. So if the first hat yielded 7, the second 2, and the third 7, the winner would be number 727.
Have that person post the number onto the thread. You can check your list to see who won, and the person with the other list can verify it. In that way, there is no onflict of interest, as the people with the list have no control over the drawing, and the person doing the drawing can't see the list to potentially draw who they want to win.
I think that would be the best way to keep any doubt about the authenticiy out.
Yet another party will do the drawing. It will not matter if they are in the drawing or not, as they don't know their number. Put number 0-9 in three hats. The first hat is the hundreds place, the second hat is the tens, and the third is the ones. So if the first hat yielded 7, the second 2, and the third 7, the winner would be number 727.
Have that person post the number onto the thread. You can check your list to see who won, and the person with the other list can verify it. In that way, there is no onflict of interest, as the people with the list have no control over the drawing, and the person doing the drawing can't see the list to potentially draw who they want to win.
I think that would be the best way to keep any doubt about the authenticiy out.
EVIL5LITER
Member
I'm in for say, $50 worth of tickets. It's for a good cause, and I've been in the struggling to make ends meet situation before. Hell, I don't think I ever left, lol.
redneck2
Member
Come on guys. If someone is willing to donate a Garand, I'm really not worried about him taking me for $10-20. If you're willing to do that, PM your address to me and I'll send $20 ticket or not. Just forward the money as you see fit
Just my opinion:
I think someone already had the best idea to make sure no one can later claim foul in a raffle drawing and that was, I think, mrtgbnkr's idea to have the numbers be picked by a state lottery that has a pick three type game. Also I believe it was his idea to sell numbers in groups. I would think that would be a great idea so long as the tickets are always sold in sequential blocks of 5. For instance I want to buy into the raffle, I get 5 tickets or 5 numbers for $20. That way there are 200 ticket sets (each set is a block of 5 sequential numbers). Selling 200 ticket sets at $20 each set would be $4,000, which by my guess would be a nice tidy sum. Of course if it seems to much to hope for to sell 200 sets of tickets at $20 per set, then do it for $10 per set.
As for not telling people what number they got - and this is just my opinion - bad idea. This will only allow for someone to later moan and groan that theyy were robbed. Think about what raffle you have ever gone in on where you have not known your numbers in advance of the drawing. None that I have ever bought into. I think sequential ticket blocks (sets) of 5 numbers should be sold, such as 0000 - 0004 (as the first set), 0005 - 0009 (as the next set), 0010 - 0014 (as the next) and so on until all the tickets are sold - or at least until an accpetable minimum amount of them have been sold. (Any minimum amount of ticket sales required to make the raffle go off needs to be announced in advance of any sales.)
As for picking the number, you pick a date by which the raffle will go off, and do so well in advance and announce the date when you advertise the raffle ticket sales. You also pick a state lottery that has a daily pick three lotto type game. The numbers drawn for the pick three by that state on the pre-announced date, are the winning numbers. Just make sure that you are certain that the pick three game is the morning or evening game if you use a game's numbers from a state like New York (which would be sort of Gun Rights justice in my opinion).
So if this raffle had already sold all its tickets, and if yesterday: May 14, 2005 had been the drawing date, you (or anyone in the raffle) could have gone to the OFFICIAL NY Lotto web site, and could have checked the pick three numbers for whichever pick three for that day corresponded to the raffle (mid-day or evening pick three in NY) and there would have been the winning raffle number for anyone to see - and it would have been drawn by a totally independent party from the raffle.
As far as hlding money goes, I think whoever sets up the raffle should hold the money and then send it to the family with best wishes from us all.
Something else to think about is tha as a condition of the raffle you must note in your conditions that anyone who buys a ticket, is by virtue of buying the ticket agreeing to the rules and ascertaining that they are: legally able to own, possess and have transferred to them firearms, that the firearm must be transferred through an FFL holder, that all federal, state and local firearms lawsa and regualtions must be followed and it is the responsibility of the receiver of the firearm to obey such, that any cost regarding FFL transfer fees are the responsibility of the winner (unless you want to take those out of the raffle money). Shipping, insurance and handling should be paid from the raffle money. If for any rason the raffle winner is inelligible to receive this firearm, his/her raffle ticket purchase money will be forfeit and the prize will be awarded to the next set of sequential numbers that was purchased by a person other than the inelligble one. So if Joe blow buys tickets with numbers 000 - 0014 (or three sets of tickets) and he wins but is found inelligble because the NICS check by his FFL holder uncovers he is a convicted felon, he does not get the gun, he loses his money, and the prize is awarded to whoever has tickets in the block 0015-0019.
I think someone already had the best idea to make sure no one can later claim foul in a raffle drawing and that was, I think, mrtgbnkr's idea to have the numbers be picked by a state lottery that has a pick three type game. Also I believe it was his idea to sell numbers in groups. I would think that would be a great idea so long as the tickets are always sold in sequential blocks of 5. For instance I want to buy into the raffle, I get 5 tickets or 5 numbers for $20. That way there are 200 ticket sets (each set is a block of 5 sequential numbers). Selling 200 ticket sets at $20 each set would be $4,000, which by my guess would be a nice tidy sum. Of course if it seems to much to hope for to sell 200 sets of tickets at $20 per set, then do it for $10 per set.
As for not telling people what number they got - and this is just my opinion - bad idea. This will only allow for someone to later moan and groan that theyy were robbed. Think about what raffle you have ever gone in on where you have not known your numbers in advance of the drawing. None that I have ever bought into. I think sequential ticket blocks (sets) of 5 numbers should be sold, such as 0000 - 0004 (as the first set), 0005 - 0009 (as the next set), 0010 - 0014 (as the next) and so on until all the tickets are sold - or at least until an accpetable minimum amount of them have been sold. (Any minimum amount of ticket sales required to make the raffle go off needs to be announced in advance of any sales.)
As for picking the number, you pick a date by which the raffle will go off, and do so well in advance and announce the date when you advertise the raffle ticket sales. You also pick a state lottery that has a daily pick three lotto type game. The numbers drawn for the pick three by that state on the pre-announced date, are the winning numbers. Just make sure that you are certain that the pick three game is the morning or evening game if you use a game's numbers from a state like New York (which would be sort of Gun Rights justice in my opinion).
So if this raffle had already sold all its tickets, and if yesterday: May 14, 2005 had been the drawing date, you (or anyone in the raffle) could have gone to the OFFICIAL NY Lotto web site, and could have checked the pick three numbers for whichever pick three for that day corresponded to the raffle (mid-day or evening pick three in NY) and there would have been the winning raffle number for anyone to see - and it would have been drawn by a totally independent party from the raffle.
As far as hlding money goes, I think whoever sets up the raffle should hold the money and then send it to the family with best wishes from us all.
Something else to think about is tha as a condition of the raffle you must note in your conditions that anyone who buys a ticket, is by virtue of buying the ticket agreeing to the rules and ascertaining that they are: legally able to own, possess and have transferred to them firearms, that the firearm must be transferred through an FFL holder, that all federal, state and local firearms lawsa and regualtions must be followed and it is the responsibility of the receiver of the firearm to obey such, that any cost regarding FFL transfer fees are the responsibility of the winner (unless you want to take those out of the raffle money). Shipping, insurance and handling should be paid from the raffle money. If for any rason the raffle winner is inelligible to receive this firearm, his/her raffle ticket purchase money will be forfeit and the prize will be awarded to the next set of sequential numbers that was purchased by a person other than the inelligble one. So if Joe blow buys tickets with numbers 000 - 0014 (or three sets of tickets) and he wins but is found inelligble because the NICS check by his FFL holder uncovers he is a convicted felon, he does not get the gun, he loses his money, and the prize is awarded to whoever has tickets in the block 0015-0019.
jefnvk
Member
Even better than my idea. I like that. Of course, it isn't my choice, though.
All those rules, by the way, are not only to protect the buyer of the tckets but even more so to protect the holder of the raffle. It is great for someone to say now, hey we are all adults and can live with the raffle results however they come out. I would be altogether different however, if someone were to pitch a complaint after the drawing or, if someone won and was not elligible but demanded the prize anyhow. While I think most people, if not all on these forums, are honest - you can never quite tell how these things turn out. So I figured it was better just to mention some failsafes just in case. Kind of like when you buy on an auction at GunBroker or AuctionArms, there are certain rules you have to follow. That way no one can later say with legitimacy - hey I thought it was this way as ooposed to the way you are saying it has turned out.
Great idea mrtgbnkr and Glenn. A lottery pick leaves little doubt as to the randomness of the ticket chosen. Everyone will know their ticket numbers in advance. I don't see how there could be a quarrel with the outcome.
You said we could use a Pick 3 lottery, with any luck we will have to use a Pick 4 if a thousand or more tickets are sold (whether in blocks of 5 or singles).
You said we could use a Pick 3 lottery, with any luck we will have to use a Pick 4 if a thousand or more tickets are sold (whether in blocks of 5 or singles).
Dang guys this is getting to big. I just want to raise a grand or so for this family. Now I am keeping track of a thousand tickets and who bought what and who was first...... YIKES!
Three ways I can do this:
1. How about I just buy a roll of tickets. I will sell 150 of them to you guys.
I will post my address you can send me a check for 10 bucks for each ticket you want.
When I get your check I post here that I got it and your ticket numbers.
Then when they are all sold I will put them in a box shake it and and my wife will draw. I will post the name of the winner here and ship the rifle to a FFL.
OR
2. I just send the rifle to somebody that wants to do it right and has a FFL.
They hold the auction and send the money to the family.
OR
3. I go with my original idea and just post it for sale and give the cash to the family when it sells.
I work and have a Wife and a Life.... need to keep this simple.
Three ways I can do this:
1. How about I just buy a roll of tickets. I will sell 150 of them to you guys.
I will post my address you can send me a check for 10 bucks for each ticket you want.
When I get your check I post here that I got it and your ticket numbers.
Then when they are all sold I will put them in a box shake it and and my wife will draw. I will post the name of the winner here and ship the rifle to a FFL.
OR
2. I just send the rifle to somebody that wants to do it right and has a FFL.
They hold the auction and send the money to the family.
OR
3. I go with my original idea and just post it for sale and give the cash to the family when it sells.
I work and have a Wife and a Life.... need to keep this simple.
I think it is not as complicated as you seem to make it. You do not need to sell a thousand tickets or keep track of a thousand numbers even if you use the pick three lotto method. You would only be keeping track of how many sets of numbers were sold. Sell 200 sets. Pretty small list of names, easy to figure who had what number in what set.
Or do it the other way and sell numbered tickets if you want, you still need to know whose name goes with what number. The thing is if you do a raffle more people have a chance to get in on donating while at the same time having a chance at winning. Granted selling it maybe easier, but again not likely as to bring in as much money. The lottery method just assures everything is up front and honest to everyone involved (no I am not doubting anyone's honesty but I also realize people get screwed out of money or, complain they did, on a daily basis).
If you decide to auction it online, I recommend asking a good reserve or starting price for it; then remember that once that low bid is made that meets the starting or reserve price, you have agreed to sell it for that price if no one else bids.
No matter which way you do it, if you do it over the internet and the gun goes interstate you have to follow some pretty set rules/laws on how to transfer it and to whom you may transfer it.
Good luck, whatever you decide.
Or do it the other way and sell numbered tickets if you want, you still need to know whose name goes with what number. The thing is if you do a raffle more people have a chance to get in on donating while at the same time having a chance at winning. Granted selling it maybe easier, but again not likely as to bring in as much money. The lottery method just assures everything is up front and honest to everyone involved (no I am not doubting anyone's honesty but I also realize people get screwed out of money or, complain they did, on a daily basis).
If you decide to auction it online, I recommend asking a good reserve or starting price for it; then remember that once that low bid is made that meets the starting or reserve price, you have agreed to sell it for that price if no one else bids.
No matter which way you do it, if you do it over the internet and the gun goes interstate you have to follow some pretty set rules/laws on how to transfer it and to whom you may transfer it.
Good luck, whatever you decide.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
Sorry, just saw the thread! Go ahead, please.
longspurr
Member
Bigjim
Your heart is in the right place and there many of us out here that would like to help.
“I work and have a Wife and a Life.... need to keep this simple.†Please consider modifying your idea #2. Let us – or one of us help you with this. But I think you and your family should be the ones to deliver the cash or check to the Marines family!!!
With letting someone help set this up per the ideas posted $2000-$4000 should be possible at $10 to $20 per ticket. I know I would like to a contributor. If the moderators post a sticky with a voting mechanism in the popular forums they can get a sense of how much could be raised in about a week.
Good luck
Your heart is in the right place and there many of us out here that would like to help.
“I work and have a Wife and a Life.... need to keep this simple.†Please consider modifying your idea #2. Let us – or one of us help you with this. But I think you and your family should be the ones to deliver the cash or check to the Marines family!!!
With letting someone help set this up per the ideas posted $2000-$4000 should be possible at $10 to $20 per ticket. I know I would like to a contributor. If the moderators post a sticky with a voting mechanism in the popular forums they can get a sense of how much could be raised in about a week.
Good luck
You may also want to set up a paypal account to receive the money. They charge a nominal fee for the money received, and that way you do not have to worry about cashing or bouncing checks. If you already have a pay pal or similar account, all the better. I think you could even have a link to your particular account for such a raffle.
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