Pistol braces

[Sistema1927]

I never saw the "need" for "Bump Stocks", (or trigger devices) as it's quite easy
to "bump fire" auto-rifles without them (with a little practice). I (also) do not see the
value (or need) for "pistol braces"; AR "pistols" accuracy or performance isn't really
increased by using them - they're just another "toy" to sell to people who like to
waste their money.

All fine and dandy until they come for something that you actually own and enjoy. "Pull the ladder up Jack, I'm OK", at least until the target is on your back.

"If we don't hang together, we will all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin

 

[dogtown tom]

I didn't need to read the volstead act to come to the conclusion that it was a pretty short time frame, I thought it was like 10 years, but 13 years. OK. That's not really my point anyway, but that's pretty obvious. Also, We? Like the royal we? .

"We" as in anyone in the world reading this thread.

Illicit drugs are not really an appropriate parallel/comparison, is it?

Actually its a perfect comparison. Those drugs were perfectly legal up until they weren't.
You want a list of more "things that used to be legal until they weren't"?......there's plenty.

But since you brought up the prohibition thing, you don't think the fact that it was wildly unpopular and the fact that everybody and their mother was breaking the law had to do with it being repealed?

Everybody and their mother wasn't breaking the law. It was so wildly unpopular it took thirteen years to repeal.
One could argue that the NFA is also wildly unpopular, but here we are eighty seven years later and repeal is a pipe dream.

 

[dogtown tom]

....... I (also) do not see the
value (or need) for "pistol braces"; AR "pistols" accuracy or performance isn't really
increased by using them -

Yet millions disagree. I can shoot an AR pistol much more accurately when I shoulder the arm brace.....as do many.
Now, I find using an arm brace as an arm brace annoying to the point I dont like it one bit. I see little need for an arm brace on a handgun, but I'll bet 99% aren't using it as an arm brace, but as a ersatz shoulder stock, effectively sidestepping the SBR definition in the NFA.

Difference between a 10.5" SBR and a 10.5" pistol w/arm brace?..........about $200, an eight month wait and better shoulder stock. Many would rather spend $100-200 on an arm brace and avoid the wait and federal registration.

they're just another "toy" to sell to people who like to
waste their money.

The ability to occasionally "shoulder" an arm brace has caused a massive increase in sales of AR pistols.....thats a lot of toys.

I can't put my finger on it but something tells me you have little experience with AR pistols.

 

[DustyGmt]

I really have a sore spot for people that are dismissive of "pistol braces" and other devices that may not align with their interests that they would just as soon see it banned just because they can't see the value in it or it isn't their thing. Doesn't affect me so why do I care mentality. I have a problem with that.

I don't see the value in alot of things, but I think people should be free to waste their money in any way they see fit. Just because it doesn't jive with your vision of what a gun should be or it isn't fine checkered walnut and blued steel doesn't make it a "toy" and to be indifferent and dismissive of it might come back to bite you. The evil black rifle will be first on the chopping block, but they won't stop there.

 

[giggitygiggity]

Yet millions disagree. I can shoot an AR pistol much more accurately when I shoulder the arm brace.....as do many.
Now, I find using an arm brace as an arm brace annoying to the point I dont like it one bit. I see little need for an arm brace on a handgun, but I'll bet 99% aren't using it as an arm brace, but as a ersatz shoulder stock, effectively sidestepping the SBR definition in the NFA.

Difference between a 10.5" SBR and a 10.5" pistol w/arm brace?..........about $200, an eight month wait and better shoulder stock. Many would rather spend $100-200 on an arm brace and avoid the wait and federal registration.



The ability to occasionally "shoulder" an arm brace has caused a massive increase in sales of AR pistols.....thats a lot of toys.

This is one instance in which I agree with Dogtown Tom. I echo his thoughts precisely on the applicability of braces and how, for many, they are much more than “toys.”

 

[crestoncowboy]

I see no use for one in an AR for my purposes. But they do look useful on the micro roni or Kriss. I don't own one though.

As far as enforcement goes, many say "may as well be disposed of if you can't use them at the range". I have to wonder what percent of shooters actually go to a range vs shooting on their or someone else's private land. Where I'm at one can't go too long without hearing shots. A gun with a pistol brace vs a gun with a pistol brace shouldered vs a standard gun.... nobody knows the difference

Another argument is that if it's not enforced its not illegal. Kind of like every mustang/ camaro/ challenger or pickup truck that has aftermarket exhaust. Almost all of the states have laws against exhaust having "excessive noise". Half have laws against making a vehicle louder than factory. Most don't even know the laws exist. And I assure you that in at least 2 of those that specify "not louder than factory" states most every truck has been rednecked up with straight pipes.

 

[DoubleMag]

...to be indifferent and dismissive of it might come back to bite you. The evil black rifle will be first on the chopping block, but they won't stop there.

Or in this case, the evil black...pistol

Hey...that is in need of repeating...
''The evil black rifle will be first on the chopping block, but they won't stop there.''

Hey...that is in need of repeating...

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I’m curious what your point is. Should we start banning anything you don’t see a need for? Maybe look for the government to establish a centralized list of what products and services are “necessary” for human sustainment. You could make this argument with just about anything beyond food and water.

I never saw the "need" for "Bump Stocks", (or trigger devices) as it's quite easy
to "bump fire" auto-rifles without them (with a little practice). I (also) do not see the
value (or need) for "pistol braces"; AR "pistols" accuracy or performance isn't really
increased by using them - they're just another "toy" to sell to people who like to
waste their money.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Maybe look for the government to establish a centralized list of what products and services are “necessary” for human sustainment. You could make this argument with just about anything beyond food and water.

Yep. I see no need for a dishwasher. Can just as easily wash by hand. I see no need for AC. Can easily leave windows and doors open. (In my area. When we were at the coast I saw the need for AC). I don't drink. See no need for alcohol. See no need for car radio, if you drive the right vehicle the engine sound is enough entertainment. Etc etc etc.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

My anecdotal observation is that the vast majority of people, who do actually shoot their firearms, do so in public or club ranges. Even so, even far out in the country, you get all sorts of uninvited visitors. Even when shooting on our private property we get the sheriff deputies or department of wildlife coming out to see what going on. Sometime they get reports of “automatic gunfire” and come out to investigate despite them having engaged with us several times and then being perfectly aware that any “automatic gunfire” is due to legally owned and registered automatic weapons or just semiautomatic weapons.

I see no use for one in an AR for my purposes. But they do look useful on the micro roni or Kriss. I don't own one though.

As far as enforcement goes, many say "may as well be disposed of if you can't use them at the range". I have to wonder what percent of shooters actually go to a range vs shooting on their or someone else's private land. Where I'm at one can't go too long without hearing shots. A gun with a pistol brace vs a gun with a pistol brace shouldered vs a standard gun.... nobody knows the difference

Another argument is that if it's not enforced its not illegal. Kind of like every mustang/ camaro/ challenger or pickup truck that has aftermarket exhaust. Almost all of the states have laws against exhaust having "excessive noise". Half have laws against making a vehicle louder than factory. Most don't even know the laws exist. And I assure you that in at least 2 of those that specify "not louder than factory" states most every truck has been rednecked up with straight pipes.

 

[crestoncowboy]

do so in public or club ranges.

They sure don't here. The closest range is 2 hours away and indoors. I hear shots all day, everyday. Never heard of LE coming out. I had a neighbor for probably 10 years that ordered ammo by the pallet or drum. Had several full auto and burst fire. I was putting up Christmas lights one year and listened to 3 round bursts for 2 hours. One day he moved off and nobody knows if his stuff was legal or not. Wasn't our buisness. The neighbor in the hollow across the road from us is LE. The guy on the roof putting up lights with me was a State Trooper.... I know of no one who goes to a range but everyone owns 10 or more acres here too. Ive never been to a range unless I was invited by LE friends or I was going to a class. I hate the lighting and noise to be honest. And load development/chrono use would be a pain id imagine.


Anytime someone shoots I hear " I heard you shooting the other day". Lol. Very rarely is it me these days.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

Well, it makes sense, if you live in a rural community where there are no restrictions on shooting on your own property, it seems reasonable that the people all around you aren’t going to go to the range. The reality is that > 85% of the population lives in urban and suburban neighborhoods where you don’t have immediate access to open land for shooting. As you can see, we have lots of space around us, yet we have uninvited guests showing up pretty regularly.

They sure don't here. The closest range is 2 hours away and indoors. I hear shots all day, everyday. Never heard of LE coming out. I had a neighbor for probably 10 years that ordered ammo by the pallet or drum. Had several full auto and burst fire. I was putting up Christmas lights one year and listened to 3 round bursts for 2 hours. One day he moved off and nobody knows if his stuff was legal or not. Wasn't our buisness. The neighbor in the hollow across the road from us is LE. The guy on the roof putting up lights with me was a State Trooper.... I know of no one who goes to a range but everyone owns 10 or more acres here too. Ive never been to a range unless I was invited by LE friends or I was going to a class. I hate the lighting and noise to be honest. And load development/chrono use would be a pain id imagine.


Anytime someone shoots I hear " I heard you shooting the other day". Lol. Very rarely is it me these days.

 

[Styx]

I never saw the "need" for "Bump Stocks", (or trigger devices) as it's quite easy
to "bump fire" auto-rifles without them (with a little practice). I (also) do not see the
value (or need) for "pistol braces"; AR "pistols" accuracy or performance isn't really
increased by using them - they're just another "toy" to sell to people who like to
waste their money.

To say that braces are useless and don't aid in proformence or accuracy is to also say that stocks on rifles and SBRs are also useless and a waste.

 

[crestoncowboy]

The reality is that > 85% of the population lives in urban and suburban neighborhoods where you don’t have immediate access to open land for shooting.

I can see that. But near 100% of the folks out here shoot. The 85% that live in urban areas aren't so unanimous. I know of not one family that doesn't at least own a gun. When my sister lived at the coast I knew far more that didn't own one than did. And like I said, if someone is breaking in my home and I call the police they will be there in 30-45 minutes to clean up the mess. Our defense is entirely on us. At the coast we could have driven to several military bases in 30 minutes. And had a police response within 5 I would guess.

My point is that anyone here could be using home made suppressors, illegal full auto, a pistol brace as a stock or whatever and nobody would ever know. Everyone here has a Hickok45 type range. Each area is different.

As far as that goes he isn't all that far from here.

Ill add that I don't know of a single pistol "Brace" around here. AR rifles have actually became somewhat common finally though.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I guess I'm just not sure what you're getting at. The reality is that millions of braces have been sold and I don't think "well, you probably won't get caught because a lot of people shoot in out in the country" is a good reason to agree to sacrifice one of our freedoms. If the chance is .1% that I will get "caught" using something illegal, that would result in the loss of my liberty for decades, I'm very likely not interested in owning it. The purpose of the second amendment was to decriminalize the ownership and to preserve the right for the people to defend themselves against tyranny. It's also constitutionally corrupt for the executive branch of government to selectively enforce the laws enacted by legislature, or to enact "regulations" that circumvent the legislator. They should be enforcing all federal drug and immigration statutes unit the legislature changes the law and they should not be creating "regulations" that act, in effect, as criminal laws that circumvent the legislative branch.

I can see that. But near 100% of the folks out here shoot. The 85% that live in urban areas aren't so unanimous. I know of not one family that doesn't at least own a gun. When my sister lived at the coast I knew far more that didn't own one than did. And like I said, if someone is breaking in my home and I call the police they will be there in 30-45 minutes to clean up the mess. Our defense is entirely on us. At the coast we could have driven to several military bases in 30 minutes. And had a police response within 5 I would guess.

My point is that anyone here could be using home made suppressors, illegal full auto, a pistol brace as a stock or whatever and nobody would ever know. Everyone here has a Hickok45 type range. Each area is different.

As far as that goes he isn't all that far from here.

Ill add that I don't know of a single pistol "Brace" around here. AR rifles have actually became somewhat common finally though.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I'm very likely not interested in owning it.

is a good reason to agree to sacrifice one of our freedoms.

Absolutely. We are on the same page. No worries there. I agree 100%. I would have never in a million years wanted a bump stock either but I still sent emails and hard earned money to the folks trying to stop a legal piece of equipment from becoming illegal. Same for the pistol brace for me.

I was just wondering if other places were that dissimilar than here and people actually snooped. Was a thread drift. I apologize.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

It's all good my friend.

 

[crestoncowboy]

It's all good my friend.

IF I wanted a pistol brace it would be on a Kriss or a Micro roni 10mm Glock. In which case I might be tempted to shoulder fire....so Ill just stick with my Fudd guns. Lol