Pistol-caliber carbine for home defence.

[selector67]

Now I have seen threads on here about whats the best home defence weapon, such as shotguns, rifles, pistols, but what about pistol caliber carbines. If you had to use a carbine for home defence, what would you use. I guess it would be along the lines of like the Beretta storm, Calico 9mm, Feather Industries AT-9, M1 carbine-----ahh you get the idea.

 

[Dienekes]

Have been fooling with a Kel-tec Sub-2000 9mm (Glock mags) of late. My wife bought one and my daughter bought another. So far I am quite impressed, actually. It's sort of a Sten gun that folds in half. We now have about 200 rounds of my handloads through it and things are shaping up quite nicely. Had some trouble with feeding and ejection for the first 100 rounds or so but as it broke in those have pretty well gone away. It still occasionally fails to eject the last round from the magazine but I expect that to iron out as well. The other one has acted exactly the same way. Oddly enough the bolt assembly in it is much better machined even though they are quite close together in serial numbers.

When hinged the OAL is about 17", and the gun fits into an attache case or a large padded pistol case that looks like a soft briefcase (Cheaper Than Dirt, $10). Kel-Tec makes a nice little sling setup for it and I have mounted those. The guns came with one 10 rd Glock mag each which we are using until completely satisfied with the guns--then I will order in some 17 and 32 round ones.

The trigger is fairly decent--better than some DA pistols--and the sights are wierd but adjustable (rear is an aperture). Hits out to 75 yards are no problem, and my wife really likes the little thing. It is a pure blowback, though, and operating the bolt is quite a bit of effort for her.

Sure seems like a lot of gun for the money, and you could sure do worse.

Don't have any experience with the other guns mentioned other than the M1/M2 carbines--which I am not a big fan of. Irrespective of their merits--and I owned an M1 carbine when they were much more affordable--they are now pretty pricey.

 

[swingset]

Why weild a weapon that's as big as a rifle, but shoots a pistol round?

Overpenetration is the only reason that's ever offered up, but that myth has been killed many times over.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

A pistol caliber carbine wouldn be a bad choice for defense, but it isn't the best choice either. I full powered rifle or a shotgun would be better.

If you already own the carbine, then perhaps I can understand relying upon it for defense. Otherwise stick with the full powered long guns.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Pistol caliber carbines for HD

benefits

-Less noise than handguns or rifles
-more controllable in rapid fire than most handguns or rifles
-easy to mount lots of tacti-cool accessories
-possible magazine or ammo compatibility with sidearm

Detractors
-rifle size without the power
-much more difficult to use one-handed than a handgun
-more cumbersome in CQB than a handgun
-hard to conceal when you go to investigate bumps in the night

IMO, they are the worst of both worlds. I believe you are much better off with a handgun and a rifle/shotgun. Use the handgun to investigate noises, shadows, etc. When you are convinced a threat exists, use the rifle or shotgun for their superior ability in ending a fight.

 

[grimjaw]

There are half a dozen threads that have covered this specific topic on THR alone. You should be able to find them with a search.

jm

 

[silliman89]

Why weild a weapon that's as big as a rifle, but shoots a pistol round?

It allows women and children (those that can't handle a full sized rifle or a shotgun - I know the ones on this board can) to shoot more accurately without the need to stockpile any new type of ammo.

 

[SuperNaut]

Reposted from an identical thread from a week or so ago:

I bought mine for potential Katrina-esque scenarios with the following rationale:

1. Shares the same ammo as the majority of my handguns.
2. Recoil is minimal, so my wife isn't afraid of it.
3. Any increase in fps is okay with me.
4. It is small and light so it is easy to store, carry, stash, etc.
5. It is accurate enough for small game if the need arose.
6. It looks scary as hell and in a SHTF scenario with the CX4 on a sling I'd be less likely to be confronted by BG's .
7. Easier to aim in a high stress situation.
8. I can shoot it at the pistol range.

Y'know all the same reasons that pistol caliber carbines were invented. Now if you are talking CCW, not so much.

 

[browningguy]

Why do some people keep insisting they are the size of a rifle?

They aren't even close to a rifle, they are generally shorter, much lighter, less recoil, less noise, and less power of course, than a rifle. If you have the Sub 2000 then when folded it makes a nice little 16" long package.

Compared to a pistol they are longer, more accurate (in general), easier to shoot, as easy to add lights to, less recoil, less noise, more powerful (higher velocity hence higher energy).

Methinks the detractors are people that don't own one. Personally I have a Sub 2000 with the G17 magwell. I also have full size pistols (5 BHP's and 2 Witness's) available for home protection (one in the nightstand), SU16 in .223, AR with two uppers, an 8mm FN49, HK SLB 2000, SKS, and a bunch of hunting rifles and shotguns. If I wanted a long gun for checking the house in the dark of the night I would go to the Sub 2000 first, SU16 next. Everything else is in a tie for last place.

 

[miko]

Why weild a weapon that's as big as a rifle, but shoots a pistol round?

Unless the "pistol round" in question is a 357 Magnum or 44 Magnum.
Such a round usually carries more energy at 100 yards than it does at the muzzle of a full-size revolver, which is substantial to start with.

Which is why my HD carbine is a Marlin 1894C Lever to complement my 357 revolvers.
36" long, 9+1 rounds of 357 or 10+1 rounds of 38 Special +P, no legal restrictions that semi-autos are subject to and other nice features.

miko

 

[DougW]

For HD in doors, the pistol caliber carbine would be dandy. If you feel the need to defend a 100 yard perimiter, then a rifle caliber would be much much better. The 9mm carbine, for example, can be short, fired much more accurately in a CQB environment (why do so many agencies use an MP5?), and is easy for others to operate. I used to own a Camp9, and it was the HD weapon of choice back then, backed up by a Winchester 1200 Defender. Today it is various Glocks in 9mm, then the Benelli, then a .223 AR or .308 FAL. After that, it is time to RUN !

 

[romma]

There are half a dozen threads that have covered this specific topic on THR alone. You should be able to find them with a search.

We are about out of topics that are new. Sometimes maybe fresh insight into an old topic might be worth discussion.

 

[USSR]

Don

 

[MCgunner]

I prefer handguns in my small home. Fartherest I'll have to shot is maybe 15 feet. I don't even need the sights for that. If I get into a hand to hand tussle, I want my snubby, hard for the BG to grab.

No rifles of any kind are loaded in my house, they're all put away. I keep a shotgun in the corner, old double barrel, unloaded. It's for barracaded safe room (my bed room) use. Just open the barrels and drop a couple of rounds in from the carrier on the butt and wait for him to kick in the door. Any bump in the night investigations are done with a handgun.

If I lived out in the country, I'd keep one of my SKSs loaded. Might need to shoot a coyote or dog raiding the hen house or something. My little SKS carbine that I tacticooled would be good for this, being as it's got a laser mounted on it. However, my rifle has a lighted reticle scope on it that's pretty bright. It wouldn't be for in house defense, though. Since I live on the edge of town, I don't have a hen house for a coyote to raid and can't be firing rifle rounds outside.

 

[MCgunner]

They aren't even close to a rifle, they are generally shorter, much lighter, less recoil, less noise, and less power of course, than a rifle. If you have the Sub 2000 then when folded it makes a nice little 16" long package.

My pistol caliber carbine has a 20 inch barrel, tube magazine, lever action, ghost ring sight and fires .357 magnum. I have hunted heavy woods with it and did kill a doe with it one year at about 80 yards.

I got no use for a carbine that fires 9mm or .45ACP other than a 9 would be cheap fun to plink with, but that's why I have .22s. I really don't shoot that Rossi 92 that much anymore. It's a neat little compact carbine, but I just have better tools for hunting even deep woods.

 

[Spencer]

The Beretta Cx4 Storm has a length of 30 inches and weighes 5.5 pounds empty. The Calico 9mm has a length of 33 inches and weighes 4.8 pounds empty. The Kel-Tec Sub-2000 has a length of 30 inches and weighs 4 pounds empty.

I really don't see a reason to use any these for home defense when you could use a Mini-14 or AR-15, since the carbine specifications are about the same as a small high powered rifle.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Now keep in mind that I already have a pistol/SRC combo for cowboy action shooting and I've put a LOT of rounds through it both in competition and practice.

Some would laugh about the notion of using a pistol caliber carbine, let alone a lever action, for home defense.

Well it's just this simple (in my mind anyway).

1) With all the CAS practice I've had I can run 10 rounds of .357 magnum through that rifle almost as fast as any semi-auto you care to name.

2) Inside of 30 yards I'm shooting with precision (not just accuracy) with that SRC so in a (God forbid) hostage situation I might actually be able to do something about it. Something I would never even consider with a pistol because I'm just not that good.

3) It's a .357 magnum. I have a lot of experience with, and a LOT of faith in, that particular round.

4) That steel-crescent buttplate would make a mighty fine backup weapon.

5) The carbine will work indoors and has a definite advantage should you need to take the search outdoors (I live in a urban area, but I know a lot of people who might need to check barns, property, etc. as well as their houses).

Having said all of that, I'd still prefer to have a hand free in a home defense situation and would still go for an XD-40 or S&W 686 as a first choice.

 

[MCgunner]

I really don't see a reason to use any these for home defense when you could use a Mini-14 or AR-15, since the carbine specifications are about the same as a small high powered rifle.

Some people live in neighborhoods or apartments and don't wanna be liable for shooting their neighbors 6 month old kid, regardless of whether it was intentional. Simply, rifle calibers have too much penetration for home defense in a crowded neighborhood. Fine if you're out in the sticks, not so fine in an apartment building.

 

[Spencer]

Some people live in neighborhoods or apartments and don't wanna be liable for shooting their neighbors 6 month old kid, regardless of whether it was intentional. Simply, rifle calibers have too much penetration for home defense in a crowded neighborhood. Fine if you're out in the sticks, not so fine in an apartment building.

I guess some myths never die.

 

[Doug S]

Although my primary HD firearm is a G17, I back that up with a Glock Sub 2000 with 18 round mags. Over 500 rounds of fmj and hp through it without a single issue so far. 29.5 in long makes the thing pretty handy, and the 33 rounds of Silvertip Hollowpoints make it a viable defensive weapon in my opinion. Contrary to what some individuals are saying here, the Sub2K is way more handy that my AK carbines, my SKS, or my tactical model Mossberg, within the confines of my bedroom or living room. Also, the 9mm does not benefit as much from the longer barrel as does a 357, but is does still benefit. I would think it benefits enough to for reliable hollowpoint expansion if nothing else. Folds easily and fits in a pack or briefcase well. You can also get a nice little tactical sling from Kel-Tec so you can hang the thing around your shoulder nicely.

I think some of the comments about "why use a rifle size gun when you can use an AR", are the equivalent of my saying, why use an AR, when you can use a "reliable" pistol caliber carbine. . Lookout, I'm in trouble now. Flame suit on. Seriously though, the question was not about using rifles for home defense, it was specifically about using a pistol caliber carbine for that purpose.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Carbine vs Pistol/Revolver

For a number of reasons (not least: threats against my wife) I've given this some serious thought lately.

I have a CX4 in 9mm, a Camp9, and heavier stuff (30-30, M1 .30 Carbine).

Also on hand are XD40 and PT111 in 9mm.

I've tried to work through various scenarios and their solutions with each of these, from the starting point of "what if I couldn't get to the others and this was all I had handy?"

What I've found is that, depending on the starting point of the action, the viability of any given weapon changes.

If I had to initiate home defense starting at the door of my bedroom, headed toward the front door, a carbine would definitely be prefered -- I have nearly 60 feet of unobstructed space there.

If I started in the kitchen, then it's 50/50 -- I could use either a carbine or sidearm.

If I were in any of the North/West rooms off the hallway, a carbine would suck, and it would be sidearm-only traffic.

I would suggest that you tailor your choice of weapons to the most general scenario where you are.

That said, I'm shopping for a 4-inch 7-shot .357 as the most generally useful for most of my own scenarios. No need to rotate magazines, enuf firepower for most things I can dream up, enuf power for good stoppage, and I can partner it with a Marlin 1894C in the same calibre for broader applications.

 

[Spencer]

I think some of the comments about "why use a rifle size gun when you can use an AR", are the equivalent of my saying, why use an AR, when you can use a "reliable" pistol caliber carbine. . Lookout, I'm in trouble now. Flame suit on. Seriously though, the question was not about using rifles for home defense, it was specifically about using a pistol caliber carbine for that purpose.

I was suggesting just about any semiauto in .223 caliber over the pistol carbines, not just ARs. I personally don't care for ARs but alot of people do so just to cover everything.

 

[Doug S]

Hi Spencer,

I really wasn't referring to your post. I've read a zillion threads like this one, and there is never a shortage of people recommending the AR over a pistol caliber carbine. Personally, I don't have anything against the AR. Sorry if it sounded like I was criticizing your comment.

Doug

 

[mljdeckard]

I have argued ad nauseum about overpenetration. But I have never had anyone say that my M-1 carbine isn't a perfectly acceptable compromise. My 870 loaded with #4 is my primary, but the carbine is my wife's backup.

 

[lwrnc1963]

A short barrel lever gun like my model 94 trapper in 45 colt would make a handy home defense gun. It's more accurate than a hangun and more manuverable than a pump shotgun and can be handled by even the most recoil shy and still give decent stopping power.