Pistol Caliber Carbine vs. Pistol Caliber Lever Gun

[priv8ter]

It seems like we used to have this discussion on The Firing Line fairly often, so let's try it here.

First, a disclaimer. Yes, I know that the ANSWER to my question is a .223 or .308...they reach further and hit harder than any pistol cartridge out of a longer barrel. But, play along with me.

Due to large amounts of OT and my income tax refund, I am rapidly moving down my list of wants/needs. One of the next things on my list, is a short barreled carbine for plinking/intermediate range home defence. My guess is 50-100 yard type work.

For utility and ammo stocking purposes, I am looking for something in a caliber I already have...9mm, .40 S&W or .357.

Since cost is less of an issue on this that asthetics(have to please the wife) the High Point Carbine is not in the running. If I got a pistol caliber carbine, it would be a Ruger PC9/40, or a Marlin Camp Carbine. The lever action gun would probably be a Marlin 1894 type.

So, what would be better as a quick action short barreled pistol caliber rifle that is pretty and wouldn't scare the sheeples?

 

[Redlg155]

Neither of your two choices will scare the sheeple. The Ruger and the Marlin share the basic look of the 10-22, a very familiar look. Want to scare sheeple? Then get an AR15 based 9mm or .40.

Out of the choices you mentioned, I would get the .357 mag lever action. It makes a great home defense caliber. You can shoot .38's for economical practice. Plus you can also use it for close to medium range deer hunting. If wifey ever wants to shoot with you the .38 is a very mild caliber.

I'm a great fan of the semi auto pistol carbines, but I'll also admit they aren't as versatile as a good .357 lever gun.

Good Shooting
RED

 

[lawboy]

I vote for the short levergun in .357. Out of a rifle, the straight wall magnum pistol cartridges truly are a new beast. I recently bought a win. 94 trapper in .357 and have fired about 500 rounds of assorted handloads, both cast bullet light loads and hopped up jhps, through it. WOW. The rifle has tremendous utility as a home or homestead (for those with some property) defense weapon. In running dry drills around the house, the gun proved very maneuverable, and once you develop some technique, it really isn't a problem. I've replaced my hi-power on the window sill at night with this carbine, loaded with handloads pushing a .115-gr 9mm .355 bullet at about 2100 fps. The smaller diameter bullets slug up nicely and are accurate out of the 1:16 barrel, don't lead, will will break up at this velocity when hitting an interior wall, greatly reducing over penetration problems. One piece of advice, with either semi or levergun carbines; put a williams or lyman peep sight on it and using the aperature housing as a ghost ring. You will gain a new respect for this class of rifle for accuracy, power and speed out to 100 yards. Regards. lawboy.

 

[JamisJockey]

I'm leaning towards a .357 lever action for my next purchase. I've got a .38 snubbie and a 2 3/4" Security Six .357 I carry for personal defense. A lever action .357 seems like the perfect compainion, espeically for camping and backwoods trips. It also has alot of appeal since I've already got a primary handgun that would share ammo with it. Would also like to get a 4" .357 revolver for backwoods trips. All in good time, though... :banghead:

 

[Artful]

my .02

I'd choose either .357 lever (mine's a rossi ) or .44 mag lever gun (mine's a Marlin).

Won't scare sheeple - large capacity magazine able to be topped off while still able to shoot. Accurate & easy to handle - go for a short barrel carbine model.

I second the Williams sight as I have that on the .44 mag and like it. For hunting be careful of bullet selection as those that open quickly out of the handgun - really explode when shot out of the rifle.

 

[BusMaster007]

Remington makes a 165-gr. Core-Lokt hunting round in .357 should you decide to use a heavy bullet.
http://www.remington.com/ammo/pistol_revolver/crlkthdgn.htm
Whatta thumper that would be.

 

[Marshall]

I think your preference of rifle is more important than who you scare with these two. Although I tend to think LEO's have a more forgiving attitude of lever guns or, anything that appears as a game hunting rifle. If you're going to be carrying it your car or truck, you might consider that?

The Lever gun is a favorite of mine anyhow. .357mag, .44mag or .45LC

 

[444]

I have three 9mm carbines, a Marlin 1894C in .357, and a Winchester 94 Trapper in .45 Colt.
The 9mms are a lot of fun. There are readily available and inexpensive mags for the Ruger PC9 including 30 rounders. Of course if you own something like a Ruger P89 handgun, the mags will interchange. The Ruger is also nice for mounting an optical sight. You can do this with a lever gun, but to me it looks out of place; looks might not matter to you however. I also have a pre-ban Colt AR15 Lightweight Sporter in 9mm. The gun is very expensive $1500+, and the mags are very expensive $80 or more for real Colt mags that really work. Then of course I have the Hi-Point which would be my choice in a 9mm carbine except you already ruled that out. The 9mm cartridge is a very feeble rifle round. You will see very little if any increase in velocity between a 9mm handgun, and a 9mm carbine. I consider this caliber in a carbine to be in the toy/plinker class although it would be fine for home defense. It is just a lot of gear for no gain over a handgun in the same caliber.
The Winchester in .45 Colt is a pretty serious rifle. If you are a handloader you can really make this thing sing. Even if you rely on factory ammo you can go from Cowboy Loads at very low velocity with cast bullets up to 300 grain softpoints and hollowpoints. This rifle can be used for everything from plinking to close range big game hunting. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt elk in the black timber with this rifle.
The Marlin 1894C is however the cream of the crop. You can just look at a Marlin and see that it is all about quality. The carbine is accurate and powerful. There is a wide seleciton of bullet weights, types, and loads. This would make a dandy defense carbine, a plinker, or would suffice for deer hunting if you had the disipline to only take sure shots. The cartridge is a reloaders heaven and does show a marked improvement when fired out of a rifle. Look into the AO sights and mounts for this carbine. They make a nice set of ghost ring sights and a scout scope mount that is terrific.
I would go with the Marlin 1894C in .357 mag if I was you.

 

[AlexI]

Hey, I'm new to rifle shooting but I would recommend a lever.
I got a 1894CP Marlin in .357/.38 recently and I love it! I also tried shooting Ruger PC9 alongside my 1894CP, and to me Ruger didn't look nearly as nice, didn't feel nearly as comfortable, and wasn't as much fun to shoot as 1894CP.

Alex.

 

[LeadPumper]

PCC

Being a big fan of pistol caliber carbines, I'll add my $.02.

Winchester, Marlin, and Rossi make 38/357 mag lever guns in various sizes. The quality on the Rossi's I've seen has been spotty, but acceptable. Both Marlin and Winchester offer a 16" barrel (my idea of a carbine). The Marlin has larger wood furniture and a shorter lever throw. It's also easier to mount a scope on the Marlin as it's a side eject. (not that I'd mount a scope on a carbine).

I prefer (and own) the Winchester Trapper 38/357(9+1) with Ashley Express ghost ring sights. Trigger adjustments and internal work is not recommended unless you have good smithing skills. (It took me a week to get mine back together after messing with the lever safety and trigger) Like it has been stated above, ammo selection can radically change the handling of these rifles; especially if you get into handloading .44 or .45 LC.

After handling the Ruger PC-9/40 twins, I decided they were too heavy and cumbersome for a carbine. (at least for my concept of a short, lightweight, fast handling small caliber long arm).

I've never found a Marlin Camp Carbine I liked, but have heard good things about them.

I did pick up a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 in 9mm. The sheeple run and hide when you unfold this thing on the range. It holds S&W, Glock, or I believe Beretta magazines depending on grip style (hi-caps anyone?), has decent open sights (ghost ring style), and is light and handy. Off hand, standing, I can make one ragged hole at fifty feet. Cost less than $400 and folds up into a briefcase.

Don't bypass the fact that pistol caliber carbines are a lot of fun to shoot (plinking), use inexpensive ammo (in some cases), and are great for teaching beginners on centerfire long guns.

Go do us all proud and buy a couple. Do it for the children.

-LeadPumper

 

[22x9]

My choice is Feather RAV-9MM. www.featherusa.com

I own and it is one heck of a plinker.

 

[Ron L]

Since cost is less of an issue on this that asthetics(have to please the wife)

Well, since you mentioned aesthetics, the lever would be my first pick. Besides, it would be more versatile since you can also load them with 38's. You can take a fair amount of medium sized game with the lever gun too.

 

[Dobe]

If you are considering the lever actions, you may wish to also consider the spring in the tubular magizine. Some believe that a spring will never loose its ability to spring as long as its limit is not superceded. That's great if it is true, but magizines can be swaped out, not so with the tubular.

Since the lever action is at best a slow loader, that means that you must keep it loaded in order to get any real sense of security from it.

You could always partially load the tubular magizine. That may help.

My vote goes for the ruger auto carbine.

 

[106rr]

I have a 357 mag Marlin 94 CS. It has been very useful. It's also the first rifle my wife can shoot well enough for SD. Get the one w/o ports. recoil is light even for her. These mag loads are ferocious out of a carbine bbl but have little kick.

 

[Wyobuckaroo]

Howdy
I think the Marlin Camp 9 is very under rated. They have a lot going for them. Despite all that is said about the limits of the 9x19 cartridge. Too bad it is out of production.
I do not own one...... Yet....... But I have shot one quite a bit.
Always take one along on range day for Firearms Safety Class.
Kids really like to shoot it.
Wyo

 

[seeker_two]

Remington makes a 165-gr. Core-Lokt hunting round in .357 should you decide to use a heavy bullet.

Federal, Hornaday, and Winchester make 180gr. rounds for hunting as well.

I vote for the levergun too. You can even get one in .44Mag or .454 Casull (talk about heavy loads... )

 

[JamisJockey]

I forgot to mention:
A good friend of mine has the Keltec Sub2000. Fine little piece of machinery, neat to shoot. Not fond of the charging handle, but its still slick. Reasonable accuracy, and the ability to match it to a handgun (it uses handgun magazines, either glock S&W or baretta depending), and comes in 9 or 40. I *might* get one instead of the lever action, although I don't think 9 or 40 is up to stopping pissed of Bovines in the high wilderness. Still, would be a good camping carbine. Folds in half for storage and portability, but won't accept optics.
Also, the Camp Carbine (Marlin) can be had in .45, using 1911 mags, however, they tend to be more pricey then the Camp 9mm. These are no longer in production, unlike the Sub 9mm, which is a newer model.

 

[Art Eatman]

Aw, shucks, I'll jump in: Lever gun. A buddy of mine who's into CAS let me try his, and it's fun. Needed some trigger work...

Magazine springs for tubular mags? Don't sweat it. I have an old Model 94 that was built in 1902, and there's not a thing wrong with that spring...Okay, a little rust on the inside that I haven't tried to sand out.

Art

 

[moxie]

For Atc1man,

You mentioned you have a Security -Six snub and you're looking for a 4" gun. Go with the Security-Six 4" for that too, and you can probably find one if you look around. I've had one for years (stainless) and shot many thousands of rounds (including very hot magnum reloads) through it. No problems. I love that gun. I like it with a Hogue rubber monogrip. Cheers, Moxie