I would like to buy a rifle that will serve as an effective home defense weapon, be inexpensive to shoot (i.e. 9mm), and won't break the bank. I am considering a police trade in Ruger PC4. What are your opinions on this gun and what other guns should I be looking at?
Pistol Caliber Carbines - Opinions
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Jonny V
Member
Check out the Camp 9 from Marlin. I have one for the exact reasons you laid out. It uses 20 round S&W 5900 pistol mags and I can shoot with very good accuracy as fast as I can pull the trigger. It doesn't look like the fearsome "black rifle" everyone seems to be so in love with these days, but looks don't count anyway. Looks are for idiots.
With it's carbine length barrel, it's more like a 357 than a 9mm, and being able to hit that fast should be decisive. You can find a nice Camp Carbine for well under $500, mostly around $250-$300. MecGar mags run about $25 each. You do need to change out the factory buffer and recoil spring, but that can be done without tools in under one minute.
The Camp 9 is also more attractive than the Ruger, but that's just my opinion, and as before, looks are for idiots (even me).
With it's carbine length barrel, it's more like a 357 than a 9mm, and being able to hit that fast should be decisive. You can find a nice Camp Carbine for well under $500, mostly around $250-$300. MecGar mags run about $25 each. You do need to change out the factory buffer and recoil spring, but that can be done without tools in under one minute.
The Camp 9 is also more attractive than the Ruger, but that's just my opinion, and as before, looks are for idiots (even me).
briansmithwins
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I had the PC9.
Trigger was heavier than Rosanne Barr. I had people I lent it to ask me how to take the safety off when they tried to fire. I just told them to keep pulling, it'll go off eventually.
Dumped it and bought (and SBRed) a Uzi. Much better fun gun.
As to using a Pistol Cal Carbine for HD, I wouldn't. I'd always grab a rifle first. Even out of a slightly longer barrel you're still talking about a pistol caliber. Rifles are in a different class.
BSW
Trigger was heavier than Rosanne Barr. I had people I lent it to ask me how to take the safety off when they tried to fire. I just told them to keep pulling, it'll go off eventually.
Dumped it and bought (and SBRed) a Uzi. Much better fun gun.
As to using a Pistol Cal Carbine for HD, I wouldn't. I'd always grab a rifle first. Even out of a slightly longer barrel you're still talking about a pistol caliber. Rifles are in a different class.
BSW
I'm hesitate to recommend the Sub2000 for SD but mine has proven itself as a reliable and accurate weapon. I keep it bedside but there's also my M&P there for me. The best thing about the 9mm carbine is they don't sound like thunder when you shoot.
possum
Member
if you are going to be using something that is similiar in size to a rifle caliber carbine, but you are shooting handgun rounds i wouldn't do it, i would buy and use a rifle caliber carbine.
Mossburg 835 they have a package that will give you 2 barrels 1 rifled for slugs & 1 barrel for shot. & for home defense Buck shot ,slug, buck shot ,slug. Or what ever combo you want. Its a nice little package. You can hunt about anything in north America with this set up. & for the guy that just wants 1 gun. Ya cant go wrong.
jonnyc
Member
They're great, everyone should have one. I'm partial to my HiPoint 995 in an ATI stock.
mcdonl
Member
CTGunner... I second the new Hi Point TS995... it has a nice rail system, good sights and can be had brand new, lifetime no questions asked guarantee for $200...
BUT...
It has a 10 round capacity. So, if you feel as though you need more rounds to "get the job done" you will need to look at the KT or Marlin, both of those are nice guns too.
Also, if you are the type who likes to "name drop" what you have for guns no one will ever be impressed with a hi point.
Good luck!
BUT...
It has a 10 round capacity. So, if you feel as though you need more rounds to "get the job done" you will need to look at the KT or Marlin, both of those are nice guns too.
Also, if you are the type who likes to "name drop" what you have for guns no one will ever be impressed with a hi point.
Good luck!
mcdonl
Member
Guntech... I am assuming you are a smith, or an armorer because of your name. Would you mind sharing what a "proper" gun is with dubs like me? I am a low budget, just care about accuracy and reliability so my gun selection is different than a collector and certainly different then a professional but I still would not mind knowing what makes a gun bonefied... proper as it were.
PSS - Whats a PCC?
Olympus
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Pistol Caliber Carbine
I've also been considering something similar to what you are talking about. Beretta CX4 is probably the top of my list for a pistol caliber carbine. But you've got several choices that people have already mentioned. The Camp Carbine, Police Carbine, Kel Tec, Hi Point, and Beretta CX4.
mbogo
Member
I used to want a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45ACP, but there were some 'issues' with them IIRC, and Marlin held them back.
If the gun doesn't have to be semi-automatic, how about a short-barreled lever-action rifle in .45LC or .357mag? They point naturally, hit harder than a 9mm, and even the most rabidly anti-gun prosecutor couldn't sell it as an "evil weapon designed only to kill people".
mbogo
If the gun doesn't have to be semi-automatic, how about a short-barreled lever-action rifle in .45LC or .357mag? They point naturally, hit harder than a 9mm, and even the most rabidly anti-gun prosecutor couldn't sell it as an "evil weapon designed only to kill people".
mbogo
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I am a firm believer in the pistol cartridge carbine. The advantage of a rifle is not the immense increase in power but the ease with which you can make hits with a shoulder stocked long gun as compared to a pistol. The short and light pistol cartridge carbine exemplifies this without the heavy recoil and noise associated with rifle cartridges. With the autopistol cartridges you also gain ~200fps with DOES affect how a jacketed bullet reacts to flesh. With revolver cartridges like the .357, .41, .44 and .45Colt you can gain as much as 500fps over sixgun lengths will has a HUGE impact on their effectiveness. Personally, for home defense, I think you'd be hard-pressed to do any better.
Zach S
Member
Exactly. My beater pistol and small carry gun are both 9mm, and although prefer .45 ACP, I dont feel undergunned with a 9mm (just almost undergunned). That same 9mm round doesn't become ineffective when its fired from a carbine.
Given a choice between my .45 ACP, 9mm, and 5.56 ARs, I'll take the 5.56 every time. Almost every time anyway.
However, if given the choice between a handgun and a PCC, I'll take the PCC. My 9mm AR served as my HD for a long time.
ejfalvo
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I have a CX4 Storm in 45 ACP and it's role is occasional range fun and always HD. I chose the Beretta versus other makes just because it felt right (balance, grip, etc). My other firearms (XD45C and SW 625-3) are 45 ACP and keeping 1 caliber around is enough for me.
I probably put 300 rounds thru it without any problems. Low recoil, easy manuverability. Easy for my wife to manage if I'm not there.
I probably put 300 rounds thru it without any problems. Low recoil, easy manuverability. Easy for my wife to manage if I'm not there.
rjrivero
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I'm also a fan of Pistol Caliber Carbines. I originally started shooting my home built 9mm AR because of cost. 9mm is so much cheaper and easier to load. After shooting it more and more, it's become my favorite gun in the safe. I like the fact that it shares magazines with my Glock 9mm's and after shooting a couple 3 gun matches in the Pistol Caliber Carbine class, I'm hooked.
I also have a Marlin Camp 45 that shares magazines with my 1911's. In my opinion, a PCC should share magazines with a pistol that you actually like to shoot. So the Glock and Lone Wolf Dist. AR lower, the Marlin Camp 45 and 1911, and the CX4 and Beretta 92 are on my short list for Pistol Caliber Carbines/Handgun combinations.
This is a picture of my 9mm AR. My form 1 came back recently, and I slapped together an 8" 9mm upper.
I also have a Marlin Camp 45 that shares magazines with my 1911's. In my opinion, a PCC should share magazines with a pistol that you actually like to shoot. So the Glock and Lone Wolf Dist. AR lower, the Marlin Camp 45 and 1911, and the CX4 and Beretta 92 are on my short list for Pistol Caliber Carbines/Handgun combinations.
This is a picture of my 9mm AR. My form 1 came back recently, and I slapped together an 8" 9mm upper.
For your purposes, it would be hard to beat a Marlin 1894 in 357 mag. They are light, handy, cheap to reload for, plenty powerful and innocuous looking. To me a levergun receiver is easier to wrap my hand around and carry than any other type of carbine.
If you don't want to go the F/A route, this looks fun.
http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/hkmp5?set=65&sz=1259x825
http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/hkmp5?set=65&sz=1259x825
Hanzo581
Member
Double post...
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Hanzo581
Member
The keltec sub2000 has a version that takes glock mags and will take the 33 rounder....sounds great for HD.
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