Pistol Training F.A.S.T Drill

[kd7nqb]

I have been looking at a number of different drills to improve both draw speed and accuracy. Currently my favorite is the F.A.S.T drill from pistoltraining.com.

For those who are not familiar with the drill here is a link that explains it, http://pistol-training.com/drills/fast-fundamentals-accuracy-speed-test

And just for fun here is Dave Sevigny setting the world record for this drill doing it in 3.5 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU3jceN4JAc

The drill it self is pretty easy to set up 1 3x5 card and 1 8in circle at 7yds.

Draw from concealment fire 2 rounds at the card then slide lock reload and fire 4 rounds at the 8in circle.

Anybody here regularly use this drill? Any advice to somebody just starting?

 

[possum]

i use and train on alot of different drills, i have never heard of this one. The F.A.S.T that i am used to stands for Fight, Asses, Scan, Top off.

I don't really agree with the way this drill is run, why am i gonna fire 2 rds in the "head" of the target, then follow with shots to the chest? nowif this was a drill that was supposed to get you used to shooting at different sized targets that would be one thing, but here it seems that it is training to take head shots then body shots. in the context of CCW the head is the last resort for me. i train what i call the "won't stop drill" which is 4-6 rds in the high center chest, the target does not stop possing a threat to me, and i fire 2-3 rds in the pelvis region, the threat continues to pose a lethal threat to me, and then and only then do i engage the head.

why the pelvis? the pelvis is just about as wide as the chest, essentailly it is a big target, as compared to the head, which is a smaller target, and will be moving in a dynamic critical incident, therefore making it harder to hit. additionally in the context of ccw you are liable for every round that goes out of your gun. most likely there are gonna be innocent people around, when the fight occurs, that is not a time that i want to take a chance at a smaller, and moving target, when i can demobilize the threat by hitting the pelvis. and if you know anything about the human body there are alot of nasty things that run through that region.

it is good to train with a reload in the mix, as well i put atleats one dummy and or inert round in each magazine to cause a type 1 malfunction, so i get the training on the tap rack every magazine that i go through. i also oddly load my magazines so i have to do speed reloads more often, as well after any and all drills, i access the target that i just engaged, do a threat scan to look for more threats, as well as conduct a tac reload for any fight that might come in the near future.

 

[DannyZRC]

I think the point is to have to fire with a high degree of accuracy straight from the draw, it forces you to do your marksmanship properly.

FAST in this context stands for "Fundamentals, Accuracy and Speed Test" having the small target zone right after the draw forces you to practice marksmanship at the moment during the engagement where you are least likely to take the time, and then the chest engagement with rapid fire gauges the "fundamentals and speed" part, that you can execute good rapid fire without jerking the pistol all over creation.

I think it's a reasonable "test", but I don't think anyone is implying that it should be a central part of a training regimen. in fact, too frequent training for it probably reduces it's usefulness as a test.

 

[9mmepiphany]

i just recently learned the F.A.S.T. drill and would view it much like the El Presidente drill. the term i've heard before had been Firefighter Assist and Search Team

it's just a standardized gauge of proficiency with a handgun...presentation, sight alignment, trigger management and mag change
1. it is far enough to require the correct sight alignment
2. the first target is small enough to ensure correct draw mechanics for the first shot
3. the reload should be an obvious skill
4. the larger target tempts you to cheat on your trigger management while again determining correct sight picture needed

the times are very generous...as they were with the El Presidente...what they save is the number of targets you need and the room/ammo to run the drill

 

[Walkalong]

Looks fun. Nothing unusual though. Body shots and head shots.

I like to practice drawing and shooting body shots without extending my arms. One handed. Never can tell what the other hand will be doing or how close an assailant might be.

I'll have to give this one a try soon.

 

[Manco]

Well, I certainly wouldn't use such a drill for self-defense training because it ingrains a habitual reload after two shots (if you think you won't do that in a real gunfight under combat stress, think again), which are taken at the head, no less, one of the more mobile targets on the human body. One of the best reasons for aiming at the center-of-mass first is that it is the least mobile part of the body, and will tend to rotate before it actually "translates" out of your sight picture, giving you more time to fire. Generally, the COM will be low on the torso, near the pelvis, and in my opinion, possum has many great suggestions, including aiming for the pelvis specifically in order to immobilize the threat. Head shots should be reserved for bad guys wearing body armor, which is a pretty rare case I would think, and pelvis shots may also work in such cases. I sometimes practice the "Mozambique Drill" (two to the COM and one to the head) along with variations on that theme in order to improve the speed of my aim adjustment, although I vary it enough so that it doesn't become habitual, as people tend to revert to their habits when they're under stress, and actual combat requires adaptability along with simpler habits (i.e. "muscle memory") rather than complex patterns of actions that are rehearsed repeatedly.

 

[capttom]

from possum: i can demobilize the threat by hitting the pelvis
I've long felt the same way. A human with a shattered pelvis or hip isn't going anywhere quickly. Of course, an armed man on his belly is still dangerous, even if he can't get at you. I think, though, the pain will have him thinking of something besides trigger control.

 

[David E]

from possum: i can demobilize the threat by hitting the pelvis

A human with a shattered pelvis or hip isn't going anywhere quickly.

This makes a pretty big ASSumption that the load chosen will be able to "shatter" the pelvis/hip.

 

[meytind]

I would think the muscle memory ingrained from this drill would be to immediately reload following the feeling of the slide locking back after your last round, not an automatic reload after your first two rounds no matter what. I've seen this drill before but have never tried it. Looks challenging to beat the 5 second time limit they set for really high scores.

 

[bratch]

Looks challenging to beat the 5 second time limit they set for really high scores.

That's a bit of an under statement. Only 5 people who have tried it have managed to do 2 out of 3 under 5 seconds.

I was told only about 10% of the people in his class can do it under 7 seconds.

I'm taking his Aim Fast Hit Fast this weekend so I'll have a better idea after that.

 

[meytind]

Would you be willing to post an AAR of the class when you come back? I love reading people's opinions on the training they receive.

 

[bratch]

I'll post a AAR is the S&T section but it could be a couple weeks due to work.

 

[Manco]

This makes a pretty big ASSumption that the load chosen will be able to "shatter" the pelvis/hip.

Well, it's as good a place to aim for as any, may have a greater immobilizing effect than most areas, and defeats body armor that does not provide coverage in that area.

I would think the muscle memory ingrained from this drill would be to immediately reload following the feeling of the slide locking back after your last round, not an automatic reload after your first two rounds no matter what.

Maybe that's true for some people who are mindful of why they are reloading, or maybe both habits will get ingrained if such a drill is overly emphasized over all others (easy to let happen when one is competing). Whether one believes in the veracity of the stories about CHP officers putting their empty brass in their pockets during the Newhall massacre due to their training habits, or other instances like LEOs who automatically reholster after firing two shots in accordance with their training, such scenarios at least seem pretty plausible to me, depending on how one reacts when under fire. I expect that real gunfights will require much improvisation anyway, calling for smooth execution of only the most basic actions combined with a high level of awareness, rather than a great deal of practice in fixed sequences of actions such as those used in competitions. People are creatures of habit, by and large, and will often revert to their habits when subjected to stressful situations, in my opinion.

 

[dovedescending]

I've tried this a couple of times... it's friggin hard. What it has done for me is to expose several flaws I have in my shooting technique. For instance, it's hard to drop a mag from a CZ 82 without first shifting the gun in my hand. The release is not easy to reach. Second, I'm bad at finding the slide release with my thumb. Third, in order to work around problems 1 and 2, I end up messing up my straight-from-the-holster-grip that I've worked so hard on.

In other words, this drill is, to me anywho, invaluable for working out kinks in my reloading. Once I've figured THOSE out, then I'll add my own variation... failure to fire...

 

[9mmepiphany]

it's hard to drop a mag from a CZ 82 without first shifting the gun in my hand. The release is not easy to reach. Second, I'm bad at finding the slide release with my thumb. Third, in order to work around problems 1 and 2, I end up messing up my straight-from-the-holster-grip that I've worked so hard on.

first i have to admit that i've only handled a CZ 82 once and don't own one to confirm what i'm typing, buy...

1. i can't reach the mag release on a 1911 when using my firing grip. what i do is rotate/shift it slightly out of my palm as i bring the gun in to my reloading position. when we have students who have a problem with this, we've been lucky that they have been using a Sig, Beretta or H&K...we just have them use their trigger finger to release the mag
2. don't use your thumb to hit the slide stop in trying to release the slide. bring your support hand over the top of the slide, grasp the slide with your fingers and palm, pull back while pushing the gun forward. if you insist on using the slide stop to release the slide, you can do it with the weak hand thumb as it reaquires it's grip
3. never compromise the master grip you establish in the holster. it is critical to the first 2 shots, before the reload, and take a moment to make sure you have re-established your grip before starting the next string of shots

 

[1SOW]

dovedescending: My 75B is the same way for me.

I tag the mag drop with my left hand on the way to the mag, so I don't lose my holster grip. I've tried shifting my grip to reach the mag release, but it doesn't work for me "every time".

Most CZs (probably yours too) will drop the slide by using a firm mag insert. The top bullet in the mag raises the slide just enough to release the slide from the slide lock. It doesn't give 'maximum' force to the bullet going into battery, but with a good running gun it's reliable. It really is a time saver.

 

[Corey]

The FAST drill is not a training drill, it is a skill assesment. One should not be doing this drill over and over as part of training. It is done occasionaly as a gauge of certain skills, i.e. smooth draw, precise aim, reload, rapid fire. It is also supposed to be done cold. I run this drill about every other range session. I do two runs at the begining of my range session and record the times. I am pretty consistently in the low 6 second range from concealement (same rig I actually carry with). I will be taking the Aim Fast Hit Fast class this fall and will see if I can get down to under 6 seconds.

As for my training, I don't do repetitive drills trying to get good at set responses. I practice certain skills and mix them up. I will do a range session of just precision shooting (25 to 100 yards), a session of rapid fire drills (working on recoil control and sight tracking), and sessions of one-hand shooting, reloads, etc.

 

[possum]

This makes a pretty big ASSumption that the load chosen will be able to "shatter" the pelvis/hip.

do you know what runs through that region of the body?

You don't have to shatter the pelvis to cause him to be demobilized and or stop possing a leathal threat to you.