Please Donate to Adopt A Sniper! Help the Troops!

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Well, our reconnaissance fleet at Offutt needs new engines.

Those tired old TF-33's turbofans are sucking JP-8 like there's no tomorrow, and maintenance on the 1960's vintage engines is sucking up manpower while lowering sortie generation (and mission success) rates.

I think I'll set up a website, ala' Adopt-a-Sniper and Kim duToit, and petition the general public to donate either funds or complete CFM-56 engine refit kits. Our mission suffers as a result if we don't do something to get better equipment on our jets. Now, because stewardship of taxpayer funds isn't an issue, nor is mil-spec certification of the items donated, we can just get rid of the archaic TOE. Unit armorers can just look the other way, there's no reason for them to get involved if a Cabela's Leupold ends up on their M24 or M40 rifles.

If equipment issue is indeed pandemic, then petitioning materiel on a website sounds like a Band-Aid approach to a sucking chest wound. As part of the chain of command in my own squadron, I know full well that measures are in place to identify deficiencies and shortfalls, and I have no problem letting my my superiors know it. They expect feedback on how the mission's going, at least in my neck of the woods. We also understand that the military budget won't put the latest Garmin GPS in my bail-out vest. How much of a chance did our impromptu snipers at Adopt-A-Sniper give their chain of command and logistics system? Did the IG get involved? Or, from the armchair commando perspective, do I need to ****, too? :scrutiny:
 
Hello Gentlemen,

Brian K. Sain here from adoptasniper.org. I understand the skeptiscm fellas. CENTCOM felt the same way and sic'd a JAG investigator on us. MC Sgt. Major from McDill called to say we were okay with them ...

If questions remain ... please contact the Chief of Police at the Port Arthur, Texas Police Department and ask what type of cop I am. I will allow you to look the number up so you will be able to verify it's authenticity as well.

We are currently supporting 95 sniper platoons of the US military deployed OCONUS.

Some info that may explain what we are dealing with.

See also the "What we are dealing with" thread on the site / forum.
http://adoptasniper.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=32&highlight=dealing

From the www.adoptasniper.org site ...

Regarding the government's support or perceived lack
thereof:

I cannot speak for the entire military. However, in
the sniper's cases it kind of goes like this.

The snipers are specially trained and should be
specially equipped and indeed, some units are exactly
that. The school trained snipers that have actually
graduated sniper school and that have been snipers a
good while often buy their own gear OUT OF CHOICE or
are VERY WELL equipped by their units. This is
especially true with the special ops guys.

However, what we have found is that the US military is
using snipers in numbers not seen since the Vietnam
conflict. Iraq and Afghanistan are ideal locations for
sniper deployement. However, this fact has been
forgotten after every war since the American
Revolution. When war breaks out, we then find that we
are behind the curve and are then scrambling to train
up enough qualified marksmen because all of a sudden
we now need people that know how to shoot. Plus, the
emphasis on marksmanship training has been steadily
decreasing in the US military, whereas it used to be a
priority. This, I believe is due to too much reliance
on smart bombs and technology.

That said, a sniper is pretty much the smart bomb of
the infantry, firing one shot and obtaining one kill
with no collateral damage to innocents. We simply
cannot rely on the air force to do everything at all
times.

Furthermore, the sniper schools have a high attrition
rate because only the best of the best can make it
through. Only the coolest thinking, smartest,
strongest, fastest, non quitters in the military can
stand up to the stress and discipline required to
become a sniper. Likewise, only the best policemen
make decent snipers in law enforcement. To lower the
standards would cost lives and the sniper schools run
a very high operational tempo program. This is because
the snipers may have to shoot right beside or over
their friends heads to stop a threat and the soldiers
and marines must have explicit trust in the sniper's
abilities to do this. In additon the snipers are often
operating in two to four man teams and must be as
totally self sufficient as possible, often times
behind enemy lines.

Our soldiers and marines are currently not in a static
battle, in the middle of nowhere, with a clearly
defined enemy and desolate surroundings for a
backstop. They are fighting an enemy dressed as the
rest of the populace, that uses women and children as
shields, who are often on the move, within the
civilian population of huge urban environments. Their
shooting has to be surgical in nature and there can be
no collateral injury of innocents as a result. This is
the same type of environment that the police sniper in
the US and UK lives in everyday. They simply cannot
miss because to do so means that the wrong person dies
or their friends are killed.

That said ... most of snipers are issued body armor
and helmets. But it is just too cumbersome to wear and
shoot with to the degree of precision demanded of the
sniper. However, the sniper's Commanding officers have
often times never been to sniper school themselves and
do not understand what it takes to do the job of the
sniper. A sniper is just one of many troops the CO
must look after and he may view the snipers as not any
different than any of his other troops when they
really do have specific equipment needs. The COs often
misuse the snipers because they either do not know or
care about the capabilities their snipers can provide
them.

In the sniper's cases, it is not that the snipers need
body armor per sey. But rather that the snipers need
different CARRIERS (specific clothing that holds the
ballistic panels) than the regular troops. This is so
they can shoot on the move and in cramped shooting
positions. The issue helmet hurts one's neck in the
prone position and is also cumbersome. If the snipers
use the standard armor, they either have to take it
off or try and shoot with it on.

If they take it off, their vital organs are exposed to
enemy fire and then they must quickly don the armor or
try and carry it with them if they have to quickly
change locations. If they try and shoot with it on, it
adversely affects their shot placement and we have
already established the ramifications of that.

Furthermore, the armored divisons and Stryker brigades
are also seeing the value of having snipers with the
convoys as they can engage the enemy with one shot and
end the threat. However, here again, the COs know
TANKS and vehicles and NOT snipers ... and often the
budget is spent on the vehicles and not on the needs
of six or eight snipers. These are the voids that
adoptasniper tries to fill.

Every soldier or marine that shot "Expert" on the
range is now being assigned as the "Company sniper"
although he probably has not had a chance to go to
sniper school. He has a rifle but often times no scope
or training to go with it. When he trys to get these
things from his supply officer, his unit probably has
not ever been issued this type of special gear and
getting approved is a mountain of beurocratic red
tape. If the soldier or marine's request gets shut
down by his CO or supply then he cannot usurp the
chain of command or suffer disciplinary action for
doing so.

Adoptasniper works because we are not in anyone's
chain of command. We know exactly what the snipers
need when they ask for it. We know where to get it
cheapest and we have the same address for these guys
that their momma has. All of this because we are
snipers ourselves. The items go from AAS shipping
sites to the snipers tents in 2.5 weeks. Done deal. No
red tape, no disciplinary action, no charge. Just that
simple ...

Furthermore, when units deploy overseas; they are
allotted funds that they do not receive here in the
States. Many supply personnel either do not know this
or the funds are spread elsewhere.

In my own very limited experience, it seems that the
problems lie more with the individual unit commanders
and supply officers either not understanding or caring
what their snipers need; moreso than the fact that the
government is not providing the funds to adequately
supply the armed forces.

The cutbacks in military spending from the previous
administration seem to have affected our military far
more than anything the current administration may have
done or has failed to do.

I hope this clears some of the common misconceptions
up. I believe our program is working and I think we
are making a difference.

Regards,

Brian K. Sain
www.adoptasniper.org

Stars and Stripes:
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=21396&archive=true

Reuters:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6812320
 
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Thanks, Brian

those vests are what I was talking about in my post above. Hope some Marines are wearing 'em now.
 
Lone,

I understand the sentiment. Lord knows I pay enough taxes, running a small business. BUT it's unrealistic to a) expect the President to control minutiae like the items AAS asks for, and b) to ever expect any government to field soldiers who have exactly what they need in adequate quantities. Human nature precludes this.

I can see the arguments of those who supect/disagree with the AAS concept, but I'm not a fool for donating.
 
If the President can't or won't equip the soldiers the way they should be equipped
You obviously did not read a word in Brian Sain's post. This is essentially a matter of logistics. If your solution is to wait until that issue is resolved in our military before going to war, then we may as well lay down our arms now and wave the white flag. I have yet to read about any war where the troops got everything they needed when they needed it. If you don't want to contribute, fine, but don't imply that those who do are somehow wasting their money. Frankly, given the fact that there are quite a few THR members who can't seem to find it within their budget to support organizations fighting for our RKBA, it doesn't surprise me that they would not support AAS or any other group that helps our troops. Its much easier to throw around baseless accusations and feel smug contempt for those who contribute. I'm sure it helps you sleep better at night, for what that's worth. However, I think there are a few that will recognize the benefit of doing this. If the Leica I sent can help one sniper hit just one or two more targets, then it is worth it. That means there is one or two more dead insurgents that won't be fighting or strapping bombs to their chest and blowing up innocent civilians.
 
The facs please only the real facts...

Rock Jock

As you told Lone…“You obviously did not read a word in Brian Sain's post. This is essentially a matter of logistics.†As a retired Logistics Analyst for the US Army I understand logistics and working currently for US Navy supply corp, I also understand supply and logistics in both military chains. I read every word and it is a nice sales pitch…

Some of what Mr. Sain said;
“The snipers are specially trained and should be
specially equipped and indeed, some units are exactly
that. The school trained snipers that have actually
graduated sniper school and that have been snipers a
good while often buy their own gear OUT OF CHOICE or
are VERY WELL equipped by their units. This is
especially true with the special ops guys.†Agree they are trained and equipped...

“That said, a sniper is pretty much the smart bomb of
the infantry, firing one shot and obtaining one kill
with no collateral damage to innocents.†And without being detected...

“They are fighting an enemy dressed as the
rest of the populace, that uses women and children as
shields, who are often on the move, within the
civilian population of huge urban environments†Been there done that 30 years ago in Nam...

“Adoptasniper works because we are not in anyone's
chain of command." “We know exactly what the snipers
need when they ask for it.†How?? “Every soldier or marine that shot "Expert" on the range is now being assigned as the "Company sniper"†How does EVERY SOLDIER know what they need if they are not trained to know???
“We know where to get it cheapest and we have the same address for these guys that their momma has.†But with the sniper behind enemy lines he will not get it and the post office doesn’t deliver behind lines. Also all items shipped are xrayed and the good stuff can be stolen, lost or sold. "All of this because we are snipers ourselves.†What do you mean we are snipers?? When was the last time you sniped a human??? Or do you mean you have been deer sniping?
“Done deal. No red tape, no disciplinary action, no charge. Just that simple ...†No UCMJ action, No accountability for equipment, No responsibility for who really gets the items, No forward maintenance when the stuff stops working???

“In my own very limited experience,†(the most truthful statement made) it seems that the problems lie more with the individual unit commanders and supply officers either not understanding or caring what their snipers need; moreso than the fact that the government is not providing the funds to adequately supply the armed forces. That is BULL every commander cares about the people under them and each understands the problems as they are normally alongside the troop. If a commander doesn’t care and the troops relies that the commander may vanish some night. Happened in Nam all the time, remember??

Also...
“Brian K. Sain here from adoptasniper.org. I understand the skeptiscm fellas. CENTCOM felt the same way and sic'd a JAG investigator on us. MC Sgt. Major from McDill called to say we were okay with them ...†A JAG investigator, really? I would think that CID or NCIS would be more likely to do the investigation, and Who is this mysterious MC Sgt Major?

Chief Master Sergeant Brownhill assumed duties as the Command Chief Master Sergeant, United States Central Command MacDill Air Force base, Florida, on February 27, 2004. It is also (USCENTCOM) not (CENTCOM). United States Central Command (USCENTCOM) is one of nine Unified Combatant Commands assigned operational control of U.S. combat forces. USCENTCOM’s Commander, Gen. John Abizaid, reports directly to the Secretary of Defense, who in turn, reports to the President of the United States. So if things were needed by our troops, this is a very short chain of command. A Unified Combatant Command is organized as a headquarters element; USCENTCOM has no war fighting units permanently assigned to it. Now if Gen. John Abizaid or Chief Master Sergeant Brownhill respond to this forum and attest that the items mentioned are being delievered to the ones that need it, I would be more than happy to donate to the AAS program. Below is the numbers that can be contacted.

CommanderU.S. Central Command7115 South Boundary BoulevardMacDill, AFB, FL 33621-5101 Phone: (813) 827-5894Fax: (813) 827-2211DSN: 651-5894E-Mail: [email protected]

Now with all due respect you **** until you have all the facts and the commander or CMS says that this is a go.
 
Prove me wrong!

ROCK JOCK...

"Allright, how much are we talking? If you're proven wrong, what are you willing to donate?"

Prove me wrong! It will be worth while. :cool:
 
You obviously did not read a word in Brian Sain's post. This is essentially a matter of logistics.

So what if it is a logistical problem?

The best funded military in the world needs to figure out how to fix its logistical problems.

I mean, snipers routinely use scopes and range finders. How the heck did we end up with snipers in the field without them?
 
We are currently supporting 95 sniper platoons of the US military deployed OCONUS.
I was on the fence, until I read this.

Sniper PLATOONS?

Give me a break. I call scam. Sorry, but I've been in the service, and there ain't no such thing as a sniper platoon -- let alone 95 of 'em.
 
Hawkmoon said:
Sorry, but I've been in the service, and there ain't no such thing as a sniper platoon -- let alone 95 of 'em.
You're wrong. We had one in my Battalion, it was located inside Weapons Company. It was called STA Platoon (Sniper, Target Acquisition IIRC). I'm pretty sure every infantry Battalion in the Marine Corps has one.
 
Prove me wrong! It will be worth while.
Tell ya what. Since you have made these unfounded accusations and basically imposed a "guilty until proven innocent" policy on AAS, I'll offer you the following challenge, not for AAS sake or Brian Sain's, but for my own integrity. If I find out this is a scam, I will freely admit on THR loud and clear that I've been suckered. I'll even pay you $100. If I find out otherwise, you donate the same amount to AAS I already have.
 
"Sorry, but I've been in the service, and there ain't no such thing as a sniper platoon -- let alone 95 of 'em."

We had them too. They weren't a whole platoon but part of our scout platoon. They still ALL had M24s that were FULLY equiped.

"Every soldier or marine that shot "Expert" on the
range is now being assigned as the "Company sniper""

Wow, I qualified expert on three weapon systems, does that mean I can call myself a sniper now?

I still don't bite this bait. If serious though, get a two or three star to do a press confrence on the major news networks to ask for assistance from the general public. You would probably end up with more equipment than you know what to do with.

Side thought on this though...

When these fine men and women come back from the desert, what happens to thier equipment you sent them? They will pass through several shake-down inspections, and will have anything that is not on the TOE confiscated. Small personal items exempted of course, but things like weapons and such are not allowed to be brought back.

So now when we leave, we are going to be equiping some foriegn sniper battalion?
 
If serious though, get a two or three star to do a press confrence on the major news networks to ask for assistance from the general public.

Yes, I agree it would be a different story if I saw a general on CNN asking for help. That would incline a lot of people to help.

However, Bush won't allow this, as it would make him look bad politically to again be caught with his panties down regarding his war preparation.
 
Give me a break. I call scam. Sorry, but I've been in the service, and there ain't no such thing as a sniper platoon -- let alone 95 of 'em.



I dunno what freaking Army YOU served in, but when I was in 10th Mountain, the 6 Light Infantry Battalions all had sniper platoons, also known as "Scout Platoon". They all had M24s, walked around in ghillie suits, etc.
 
I don't like the sound of this, period. I'm thinking a bunch of Reservists (which I'm also proud of) are getting deployed, may have shot expert during there yearly rifle/pistol quals, and now everyone wants to be a "Designated Marksman".

So, once all this gear is donated to the U.S. Military, it should stay with the U.S. Military. Right? I see a bunch of "want to be" DM's gathering this free gear and bringing it home with them and sold on ebay afterwards. It's not going to be on the Military's TOA (table of allowance), so no paper trail. It's a win win situation!

If you guys are being sent off to fight a war and not having the gear provided to you to do the job, I'd be going up my chain of command, or writting my Congress person. Heck, call Donald Rumsfeld the Secretary of Defense, he's now an expert answering questions on not issuing the correct gear/equipment to the troops. This is the boat your in, correct?

This does not fly guys in my book........

Wags
 
Rock Jock

Out of your own mouth...."I'll even pay you $100. If I find out otherwise, you donate the same amount to AAS I already have." You got it. If this is for real the snipers all 95 really need our assistance And you prove this is 110% real and you can prove it. That I will pay $100.
 
If they're not being given the right gear in the first place, why should I have to do it? All this does is tell me that a) it is likely that this is a scam and b) if it is not a scam, I'm never joining the military. Not the US military, at least.
 
Out of your own mouth...."I'll even pay you $100. If I find out otherwise, you donate the same amount to AAS I already have." You got it. If this is for real the snipers all 95 really need our assistance And you prove this is 110% real and you can prove it. That I will pay $100.
The conditions are: 1) I can show that snipers are receiving this equipment, and 2) that they in fact are in need of this stuff. AND, the bet is not for $100. Read my post. The bet is for the same amount that I have already donated. I sent a NIB Leica 1200 directly from Bear Basin to this outfit. I paid $500 for it. THAT'S the bet.
 
Sounds like a nice program. I'd be surprised if every single soldier getting goodies is a sniper, officially or unofficially. If it gets put to good use regardless, I'd be happy.

Last time I was OCONUS, I got lots of goodies around Christmas time. It was rather nice, and it certainly did cheer me up. Of course, not all of the gifts were something I'd use. Uhm, I don't have much use for "feminine products" and other items, but I passed them on to those that could use them.


As for the US Army supply system, try getting AA batteries that work. Half the time, supply is out. The rest of the time, the batteries had been sitting on a shelf for a decade and won't last more than a couple hours of usage. Want to donate something useful? Batteries. AA mostly, but a couple AAA's would be nice.
 
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