Please explain this dislike for TiteGroup and Kaboms

[rfwobbly]

IMHO if you were to graph powder weight vs. chamber pressure you'd get a curve with any powder. It just so happens that the curve becomes more asymptotic with the pressure scale for faster powders. That is to say, if you plot Pressure on the vertical scale, then the faster the powder, the steeper the curve.

All this to say that since powder vs pressure is NOT a straight line, double the powder equals MORE than double the chamber pressure. And when you have a very fast powder, like TG, you may get nearly triple the chamber pressure with a double load.

When novice reloaders combine that "edgy" nature of Tight Group with the extremely narrow load window it invites trouble. Mature reloaders have most probably refined their personal reloading process to the point where this can be dealt with safely. However, it is supreme folly to think that a novice reloader can deal with learning reloading technique, his press, his cartridge, his powder measure, AND an extremely fast powder from the get go.

 

[Crashbox]

[SNIP]When novice reloaders combine that "edgy" nature of Tight Group with the extremely narrow load window it invites trouble. Mature reloaders have most probably refined their personal reloading process to the point where this can be dealt with safely. However, it is supreme folly to think that a novice reloader can deal with learning reloading technique, his press, his cartridge, his powder measure, AND an extremely fast powder from the get go.

As I mentioned earlier, I learned to reload beginning with TiteGroup (in .357 Magnum). And a progressive press to boot... but I was also determined to be extra-patient with myself and ever-so-cautious.

Then again, no one said I was normal- but that's another story entirely...

 

[rfwobbly]

....but then you and I went to school when they taught the Constitution. Not every novice reloader has our background, life experience, or common sense.

 

[Crashbox]

Yes, that is certainly true.

 

[Hamish]

I use Tite Group in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. I've probably loaded between 6k and 7k rounds with it without any problems. I visually check every case for powder and powder level before seating a bullet on a turret press. I always load below max, although I've created loads within .2 of max to chrono the rounds and to check for accuracy.

I tried it in .38 special -briefly. It was hard to visually check for powder in the case on my turret press because there was so little powder to see, and the viewing angle made it difficult to see all the way to the bottom of the case. I didn't like the fact that I could easily double charge a case and have it still pass a visual inspection, so I switched to IMR-800x for the .38 special, which fills the case nicely. I use H110 for the .357 magnum.

I just picked up another 8 lbs of Tite Group, so it looks like I'll be using it for awhile - that should load about 13k rounds for me between the three calibers I use it for. Now I just need to find more primers.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I dislike Titegroup because it leaves a nasty stain on my revolvers. It is quite hard to get off and I have yet to figure out what it is. For this reason, I avoid it.

 

[Crashbox]

I dislike Titegroup because it leaves a nasty stain on my revolvers. It is quite hard to get off and I have yet to figure out what it is. For this reason, I avoid it.

I agree, TG does do that- it's almost like a thermoset polymer. I only have stainless steel revolvers and the cylinders show it worse than anywhere IMO; Flitz seems to work for me with some elbow grease and a prior cleaning using Ed's Red with acetone or MEK included. YMMV.

 

[BigG]

On another forum there is a ongoing dislike for TiteGroup as it is a evil powder that blows up guns. Due to it's density and fast burning, in the event of a double charge it blows things up.

Now I admit I have not used the powder myself, just cause I neve have seen it around. I do not understand how it can be much different than say Bullseye which I use a lot of of.

Not looking for a debate of what is the best powder but more of why this powder is singled out?? Yes, it's dense and fast and not a lot in the case, but that can be Bullseye or any fast powder.

Any powder that is double charged would cause a problem, but what I do not understand about KABOOMS is wouldn't the pressure go to the point of least resistance? To me this would be the bullet and still force the bullet out. Why does the case bulge or burst before the bullet is released??

Is Titegroup just got a bad rep because so much of it is used and the odds are greater kinda like the whole Glock kaboom as there are so many 40sw in use??

It seems this event is mostly semi autos as I image a revolver cylinder is tougher to blow up?

My guess it's not the powder to blame but progressive reloading devices with lack of attention from operators with too little experience to realize they are dealing with something dangerous. jmtc

 

[thump_rrr]

I won't get into all the reasons why I dislike TG but I will say the powder has a nasty habit of bridging.
Powder bridging is when some to all of a powder charge get’s stuck in the baffle/funnel of the powder measure. When the next charge is thrown, that powder charge knocks loose the last powder charge and you essentially end up with an over charge to a double charge.
Without a careful visual inspection of each charge thrown, bridging can bite you in a bad way.

No offense but trying to claim that bridging can lead to a double charge or over charge in a volumetric powder measure is purely BS.

If for arguments sake you have a volumetric powder measure such as the ones used by either Dillon, Hornady, or RCBS. Which is set to hold 1cc of powder how can you get 1.5 or 2 cc's into the rotor to create any kind of overcharge?

You may have the powder bridge causing the rotor not to fill causing an under charge but not an overcharge. This is a physical impossibility.

I have loaded over 20,000 rounds of 9mm and .45ACP on my Hornady LnL AP progressive without any bridging issues but I don't know what kind of environment you are reloading in.
My environment is temperature and humidity controlled.

 

[918v]

Don't double charge and you won't have KB's.

Inspect your brass prior to loading, throw away defective cases, and you won't have case failures.

Bell the case minimally, make sure the bullet is the right size, and you won't get bullet setback and KB's.

Load on a single stage press, pay attention to detail, and you won't have problems.

 

[evan price]

I have loaded lots of titegroup, in everything from 32 auto up to 454 casull. It does not get you top velocity in magnum calibers but for target ammo it's great. Yes you have to be very careful..it has the most nitro content of about any powder. It burns hot and will scorch your brass. I find it likes to burn cleanest at the upper ranges. It's also good in big deep cases because it doesn't need to be on the primer to ignite. I'm sure there's people who try it and don't respect it. I can't see it being worse than other fast powders.

 

[sourdough44]

I'm a guy who doesn't have any problem with Titegroup, properly used & measured. I wonder also, how is it much or any different than Bullseye powder, very close in burn rate? Bullseye was more popular 30 yrs ago.

Experience along with reputable data trumps net ramblings, in my book anyway.

 

[GLOOB]

No offense but trying to claim that bridging can lead to a double charge or over charge in a volumetric powder measure is purely BS...

You may have the powder bridge causing the rotor not to fill causing an under charge but not an overcharge. This is a physical impossibility.

You're not thinking it through. A dipper can't bridge, either. But you can sure get bridging in the funnel, if you are doing it with your eyes closed. If you've never seen a powder bridge, then you have been lucky. Powder bridging occurs when the powder binds up in the DROP TUBE. The flakes fall in just such a way that the powder impacts and clogs when it hits the funnel/case mouth. That little rotor/meter/disc/hole or w/e will not overfill. But when it drops, it'll just keep on collecting in the drop tube. You can get even a triple charge if you're throwing a small pistol charge - but one little bump and it gets to flowing; then all the backed up powder drops... all over the bench, if you're lucky.

The worst powders for bridging, imo, are the rifle stick powders. But I've also had Unique bridge on me a couple of times.

 

[A Pause for the Coz]

This is what a double charge of Bullseye can do to a 45acp carbine chamber. From what I understand, it was caused by a missed short stroke on a progressive trying to seat a primmer. No one got hurt but underwear were in need of cleaning.
Be careful with those low density fast powders.

 

[MichigammeDave]

I've used TiteGroup for years on .45ACP, .357 Mag, .38 Special and 9x18 Mak. I love it, and for pistol loads I much prefer it to slower powders like 296 and 2400, which I use with .357 and .44 Mag for the carbines.
I've never had a problem double-charging, but I load one round at a time and check each one before I seat the bullet.
There's no substitute for caution.

 

[GooseGestapo]

And the wheels on the bus go round and round.........;.........;..........

The same discussions were going on about Bullseye 50years ago...

It's a dense high-energy powder that is easily over-loaded with logical results.

30yrs ago, it was newby's putting 2-3x powder charges in .38spl cases because they couldn't fathom that the powder used up so little of the case space. Result was lifting the top strap off the gun and blowing chunks off the cylinder.

Today, it's Tite-group and Glocks. Too much powder, or too little case tension resulting in bullet set back in conjunction with the unsupported case head where the feed ramp on the barrel is rounded for proper/reliable feeding. Same results; ka-boom, "mama"!!!!!!

I've used TiteGroup but it didn't offer anything in the .38spl that Bullseye didn't do equally well or better.... (The "dirty" part of Bullseye is the graphite deterrant coating which is part of the accuracy equation... ).

However, with the 9mm .45acp,or .40s&w with plated or jacketed bullets it does have the advantage of no-smoke for the "speed-games". That and of course the economy....
I suppose 40yrs from now it'll be something "different" but still the same thing.....

 

[Slamfire]

30yrs ago, it was newby's putting 2-3x powder charges in .38spl cases because they couldn't fathom that the powder used up so little of the case space. Result was lifting the top strap off the gun and blowing chunks off the cylinder.

I heard this story from a Pawn Shop owner, must have happened 60's or 70's. He sold a Colt revolver in 38 Special and the buyer wanted to know a good load. The Pawn shop owner wrote something like 3.0 grains Bullseye, probably a 158 lead bullet.

The pistol buyer, being a rifle reloader figured the decimal place was off. The first shot of his reloads burst the cylinder and the top strap blew clean off. I heard the topstrap lodged in the roof over the firing line.

The buyer thought the pistol was defective and brought it back for a refund.

He, and his Colt pistol, were tossed out of the pawn shop once the seller figured out what happened.

 

[Pilot]

Titegroup has become my go to powder for 9MM, .45ACP, and .45 Colt. I use a single stage press, so no double charges for me.