Please tell me what this gun is!?!?

[sgbenge]

I inherited this gun from my grandfathers estate with a note and picture. He got it about 35 years ago in Ohio from a pawn broker. I have no idea what kind of gun it is, where it was made, how old it is, what it is worth....in other words...absolutely NOTHING about it! Can anyone help me???? I did attach some pictures of it for some visual help. I could only put 5 pictures on here. It is a 32 gauge double barrel shotgun. It has the name Acier Cockerill written on a plate between the barrels and the hammers. It also has a saying "Ordem and Progresso" written on a plate in between the barrels. It has the serial numbers 13351 and 18652 written on the underside of the barrels. It is in excellent shape. Thank you anyone that can help me!
Serenity

 

[bender]

the pics of kinda dark, can you post some better ones?

 

[Oldnamvet]

I think you will find it to be a fairly valuable shotgun made in Liege Belgium early in the 20th century. More knowledgeable people will be along shortly to give more information, I'm sure.

 

[gamachinist]

Reshoot your pics with something lighter than the gun underneath it and the pics will come out much better.
With the dark background,there isn't enough contrast to see the details of the gun.
Acier is Belgian (I think it's Belgain) for steel.
I would guess the maker is Ordem and Progresso,but that could mean anything!

 

[Jim Watson]

Ordem e Progresso = Order and Progress, which is the national motto of Brazil.
Acier = steel, as in "not Damascus"
Cockerill is a major Belgian steel manufacturer.

Google has a lot of stuff like that.

These small gauge guns seem to have been popular in Latin America.

I conclude that you have a minor brand Belgian shotgun made for sale in Brazil.

If Oldnamvet offers you a lot of money for it, grab it.

 

[BEARMAN]

Ballistc Products www.ballisticproducts.com have hulls and wads for 32 gauge. They alsohave load data.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Jim Watson

Being an old f@rt, my definition of a lot of money is different from most people. I'm what some people call cheap, I call frugal.

 

[SDC]

If you post some better pictures (especially including the proofs on the water table and chamber flats; the flat parts that squeeze together when the shotgun is closed), you'll probably get a more definite ID, especially as to country of origin, chamber length, etc.

 

[Jim K]

If you look on the bottoms of the barrels and the top of the water table (where the barrels close down) you will probably find Belgian proofmarks consisting of an oval with the letters E L G, confirming the origin. I agree that the gun was probably made for the Brazilian market, given the motto.

I suppose it could have something that would make it valuable, but those Belgium "no name" guns were the product of a consortium where one outfit made barrels, another locks, etc., so there was no one name to put on the gun. Some are very nice, engraved and even gold and silver inlaid, but the run-of-mine guns are worth around $100 as curiosities in this country. The gauge, of course, doesn't help, even though shells may be available, you sure can't find them at Wal-Mart.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

As I asked in the post above; what is the reluctance of Belgian and other Continental gunmakers to put their names on their products? I don't mean the cheap stuff, Greener's third type, I mean some quite nicely made guns, not hardware store stuff.

 

[gamachinist]

I think it may have been that they had no established distrubutor or dealer network to sell their goods,so it was "in stock" and available to whatever person or group wanted to buy it.
If it had a makers name on it,it might make it harder for them to sell it in a quantity to a buyer.
Or it could be something to do with the prof laws since they were made by a group of gunsmiths (one made the barrels,one made the locks,one did the furniture,etc.).
Can you imagine the dog fight that would turn into with each of them wanting his name or input into the name on the gun?

 

[Jim Watson]

Maybe so.
I have a very nice - very worn but obviously fine quality - shotgun of about 1920 with no obvious trademark. I finally found the maker's name in about 4 point type on the barrel flats... Verney Carron. Not a collection of guild members, but a major French manufacturer. Still in business. No reason not to proudly brand their gun, they were and are well established and well accepted.

 

[THE DOC 44]

Jim Watson;" no name guns "

It was common practice for manufacturers to produce guns with no names on so that gun dealers ( large or small ) could stamp their own names on them . Of course some dealers just sold them nameless , you can come across Birmingham made guns like this , so called " trade guns " .

 

[Jim Watson]

I know, Doc.
But you don't see the practice in the U.S. There are a lot of trade name guns, but they have a name that can sometimes be traced back to a maker. I have seen a lot of totally blank English and Continental guns that have to be identified by mechanical features if at all.

 

[THE DOC 44]

Un-named guns.

I bought , last week , a Russian side by side 12bore hammer shotgun , there was plenty of numbers on the thing but not a letter either english or cyrillic . I could only tell that it was Russian by the proof marks ,this one is a real mystery .