Plunk Testing a .40 - Troubles.

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OMG!! Talk about information overload!
If you can do 9mm you should have little trouble with 40. Size it, flare the case, drop a starting load of powder. Set bullet as long as possible without hitting the rifleing during the "plunk" test, and taper crimp.
40 is the easiest to load of the three major cartridges.
 
Skulptor said:
Berry's HBRN ... Any specs for the HBRN and Titegroup?
Hodgdon actually lists load data for Berry's plated bullet under "BERB" - http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Although the bullet type listed is FP versus HBRN, you should be able to use the same start charge for conducting your powder work up.

155 GR. BERB FP
Titegroup OAL 1.125" Start 5.1 gr (1051 fps) 26,200 PSI - Max 5.7 gr (1151 fps) 33,600 PSI

165 GR. BERB FP Titegroup OAL 1.125" Start 4.5 gr (960 fps) 24,300 PSI - Max 5.1 gr (1060 fps) 31,800 PSI

180 GR. BERB FP Titegroup OAL 1.125" Start 4.2 gr (901 fps) 27,400 PSI - Max 4.7 gr (988 fps) 31,900 PSI

rcmodel said:
IMO: Tightgroup is about as poor a choice of powder as you can make for the .40 S&W.

It is a high-pressure round. Titegroup is a very fast burning powder.
+1. I normally suggest slower burning than W231/HP-38 for 40S&W with the exception of Green Dot, but if that's the only powder available to use, it will work. Just be careful and verify the powder charge weights and check to ensure you have sufficient neck tension to minimize bullet setback.
 
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Thanx Guys,
I can step down to Win 231 as I have that as well.
Realgun,
It is actually a "surprisingly long" oal. - 1.303" when it comes in contact to the lands and grooves. I am going to try cycling different length rounds today and see where they will feed well.
RC,
Sorry, it is 155's. I should have posted that but I think that is the only HBRN they have.
BDS,
Thanx for the link. I had forgot about that.

I also went to Berry's and got some more info on the bullet itself. This is what it said:
The "Hollow Base" in the base of the bullet allows us to make a longer profile without adding weight. For example if we were to hollow base a 230gr .45 ACP bullet, it now weighs 185gr.. The longer profile gives more "Bearing Surface" on the bullet, which helps a pistol barrel stabilize the bullet.
I like that since it seems I can have a longer OAL. But I will still have to make sure the gun cycles with a long-er oal.
Thanx Gents!!!!
Chaz
 
1.170" seems to be the longest oal that has some room in the mag and cycles well in the gun. I guess that is what I will start with.

Again, thank you all for your help!!! I do appreciate it.
When I get up the cake to buy a .45 (S&W 99) and start reloading for it, I can apply this info there. I was under the impression that what I did for the 9mm would work for all hand guns but, as I have learned, it does not. That is why this forum is just sooooo cool!!
Thank you all again!
Chaz
 
40 is the easiest to load of the three major cartridges.

Well, in my shop, .40 is the one in fired brass that requires the extra step of bulge busting, no exceptions...I don't care what brand, model, or gun it came from. The gauge is my judge, since I have (3) .40 S&W guns.

I now commonly do it for .45 ACP also. If I had 10mm, it would call for this process too...any straight-walled case with no rim (semi-auto).
 
Well, in my shop, .40 is the one in fired brass that requires the extra step of bulge busting, no exceptions...I don't care what brand, model, or gun it came from. The gauge is my judge, since I have (3) .40 S&W guns.

I now commonly do it for .45 ACP also. If I had 10mm, it would call for this process too...any straight-walled case with no rim (semi-auto).
Today 02:31 PM

I don't, never needed to. Even in my match 40 barrel slightly bulged brass chambers and after fired is also slightly bulged. I load it over and over too!
I load quite a few straight walled cases and after full sizing it all chambers.
I run across a few that won't fit in the case gauge but they will still drop into the barrel with the "plunk" test. Just be sure to taper crimp and you will be fine.
Are you sure you need to? Its alot of work if you don't need to. Now you say you also do it with 45. Not saying now one else does it but I haven't heard of this either or have heard of anyone else "feeling the need".
 
I don't, never needed to. Even in my match 40 barrel slightly bulged brass chambers and after fired is also slightly bulged. I load it over and over too!
I load quite a few straight walled cases and after full sizing it all chambers.
I run across a few that won't fit in the case gauge but they will still drop into the barrel with the "plunk" test. Just be sure to taper crimp and you will be fine.
Are you sure you need to? Its alot of work if you don't need to. Now you say you also do it with 45. Not saying now one else does it but I haven't heard of this either or have heard of anyone else "feeling the need".

Re Bulge processing, the context of our experience must differ in some important way. I know what I'm doing, trust me.
 
Re Bulge processing, the context of our experience must differ in some important way. I know what I'm doing, trust me.

If it works for you congrats! Piece of mind, or if you have issues with 40. Obviously you think you need to do it.
I've been loading and shooting quite a bit of 40 for the past 5 years or so. Loaded 500 this weekend and all of them drop into the barrel [I check each of them] And yes many of them have bulges. I shoot 5k/year of 40. I also shoot lead through a glock as many of my fellow shooters do.
I feel that I know what I'm doing. Cheers!
 
I have only recently acquired my first Glock and in a model 22. It shoots my reloads, but they were developed for the less forgiving Kahrs, that had too many rounds that would not go into battery, no matter springs or T40, P40, or PM40. That was a perfect application for the Bulge Buster and a cartridge gauge. When you serve multiple guns of the same caliber, you load to standard.
 
Hey Guys,
Just thought I'd show you what my first "work up" for my .40 bore out. I was rather impressed as It took quite a few try's to get that good of a group with my 9mm. Now I just need to address my sights.
The far left shot was my fault, plain and simple. I think it could/should have been tighter with the other 4. (it was cold, I was wearing gloves, in a hurry... yadda yadda... My fault)
It seems it could be tough to improve on this but I enjoy trying. (BTW, it's at 30'.) I may just wait till it gets a little warmer to try a couple other recipes. I hate this cold stuff.
Anyway, just thought I'd try to contribute a little instead of just asking questions. :)
Oh and the usual disclaimer - This is what I did and I in no way suggest others to do this. Reload at your own risk. -
Thanx again for all the help!

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Your sights might be fine. If you were using a rest (to test load accuracy), your eye alignment could be different than when shooting normally. Just move your head, and the parallax between front and rear sight changes. That could be cocking your head a bit or coming down harder (or less so) on the sights.

Just a thought.
 
Thanx Real Gun, I'll look at that before I fuss with them. I was using a rest to try to "keep me out of it" as much as possible till I find the best load. But, my guess is that it's the sights as they have never been touched on this gun. (I just got it)
 
Just been reading all comments on this issue concerning the PLUNK test.
I also having the same problem just last night when resizing 200 rounds of .40 x 140 g FP projectiles.
Before i reloading the cases i Lee Bugle Busted all cases and after tried the PLUNK test some went in ok and a lot i had to re- do again in bugle buster which worked on most but still had a couple wouldn't pass the PLUNK test so i put them through the seating crimp die which worked.
So without starting a major over load what am i doing wrong.
I have been seating the projectile as per loading book recommendation for the .40 is this correct or do i need to possibly drop it lower as i notice one comment about possibly hitting the barrel groove which maybe something in that.
I rang tonight at work Evolution Guns Works who have a undersize sizing die for 9mm / 38 super / .40 /.45acp / .38 special. I ask them if this will size the .40 better to achieve the PLUNK test. The guy stated that it will give you a much tighter size but he doubted if it will go far enough due to the shell plate.
I am still working on this and yes the projectiles are .401 size.
Regards
coonan1911
 
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Yes its a lone wolf barrel.
I have even port and polished the breach and it help a little but still that big PLUNK problem.
All i can say is they either machine them tight tolerance or the workmanship not so good.
Maybe the once fired brass is not so good either. Who knows.
I may have to seat the projectile below specs and see what happens?
regards
coonana1911
 
Try it in the stock barrel. I don't like Lone Wolf barrels. I think there is your problem.
 
Hi
That's the big problem I don't have a Glock standard .40 barrel as this is a conversion setup going on my Glock 17 frame.
Not to worry I will hang in there. I rang Accurate Arms and Ammo at work last night so I could talk to them directly and the woman was just great and so helpful.
She said there was a waiting period for the Redding R-GX push thru die setup in carbide for the .40 to fix any bugle or case problems. My order been in since the 28/10/13 and was E-Mail by her early this morning stating that a shipment had arrive to there warehouse 4 hours after speaking to her on the mobile. And would you believe it and luck my order was included so I may have it by the middle of January 2014.
It will be interesting to see how it will go on the .40 cases?
If this doesn't work I will have to look around for a original Glock .40 Barrel which is like hens teeth here in Aussie Land or I may get lucky and find a second hand one out there.
Regards
coonan1911
 
You have a 40 slide too, I remember now.
Its hard to get a barrel shipped down under? I did not know.
New barrels are about $140 here.
I do know shooters that have opened up the chambers on their Lone Wolf barrels. Do a search on it. I think you will be able to do it yourself and then don't worry about a "bulge buster" set up.
I heard all you need for the BB is a Lee factory crimp die with the adjuster knob removed and the tapercrimp insert removed too. Then you just push the cases through.
Its alot of work and i have never had to do it to shoot 40.
Again, I don't like Lone Wolf barrels. Bunch of hype for barrels that are out of spec.
 
coonan1911 said:
Yes its a lone wolf barrel.

All i can say is they either machine them tight tolerance or the workmanship not so good.

Maybe the once fired brass is not so good either. Who knows.
coonan1911, Lone Wolf barrel chambers are machined for jacketed diameter bullets. So for 40S&W, they are cut for .400" diameter bullets but you are using .401" sized coated lead bullets. I have several Lone Wolf 40S&W barrels for my G22/G23/G27 and all the .400" sized jacketed/plated bullet loads freely drop in the chamber with "plonk" but .401" sized lead bullet loads are snug, especially cases with thicker walls.

Lone Wolf Distribution will enlarge the chamber to fit the larger bullet you are using, but since you are in Australia, not sure how feasible that is.

I have even port and polished the breach and it help a little but still that big PLUNK problem.
The chamber dimension problem is not at the mouth end but the forward end of the chamber that needs to be enlarged. Do not remove too much metal from the ramp/chamber mouth as if the angle is changed, it may affect reliable feeding/chambering of rounds from the magazine. Only do a light polish IF needed. None of my Lone Wolf barrels needed ramp polishing or chamber mouth enlarging.


I opened up the forward part of the chamber on a Lone Wolf barrel to accommodate larger .401" sized lead bullet loads instead of paying LWD to do it. I sanded and polished using fine grit wet/dry automotive sandpaper wrapped around a plastic marker. It doesn't take much sanding/polishing to remove .001" amount of metal so go slow. Note: This will void the warranty on your Lone Wolf barrel, so do it at your own risk.

If you are interested, I outlined the steps I used on this thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8093783#post8093783

This is the rough illustration I used for 9mm barrel but I used a larger plastic marker for the 40S&W barrel
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Here are the step:

1. Taper crimp a flared case (no bullet) to .422" diameter (.424" is SAAMI chamber max for 40S&W) and use it as a gauge. If you have some concern whether your calipers are accurate, use one of your loaded rounds that's on the larger size/fit tighter in the chamber as the gauge BUT ensure there is no flare left and case neck is returned flat on the bullet!

2. Use a dowel or pen/marker cap that's slightly smaller than the forward part of the chamber.

3. Start with P220 grit wet/dry sand paper (I used it dry) and cut a piece to wrap around the dowel/cap so they fit snug with the forward part of the chamber (Note picture: I wrapped the sandpaper below the tip of the dowel/cap so I would not polish the leade or the step where the case mouth headspaces). Use a continuous rotating motion and focus the sanding on the forward part of the chamber (not the mouth end). After a few turns, push the .422" taper crimp case/round in the chamber to test - you want the case/round to chamber just snug as you'll be polishing the chamber next (you can always remove material but can't put back ).

Caution: I exercised care not to sand/polish the chamber mouth or the ramp area. Also, ensure you are sanding/polishing the chamber walls evenly and not just one area.

4. When you are able to push the .422" taper crimp case/round "snuggly" in the chamber fully, change to P400/P800 grit wet/dry sandpaper and finish polishing the chamber until the .422" taper crimp case/round falls into the chamber freely with a "plonk".

5. Load another test round with .401" sized lead bullet using .422" taper crimp. The test round should fall in the chamber freely with a "plonk". If not, polish the chamber until it does.
 
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This will void the warranty on your Lone Wolf barrel, so do it at your own risk

Good write up. A lot of work!

Note: Shooting reloaded ammo in their barrels also voids its warranty. And in their product description they state that these are great for shooting lead.

Feel bad about your situation down under. I'd open that sucker up until everything you load slips right into the chamber.

Nothing more frustrating that when you gun won't work for some reason at a match or just at the range.
 
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coonan1911, at least even with all the gun restrictions in Australia, it's good to see you able to own and shoot restricted firearms.

We certainly share the pain of not being able to obtain shooting/reloading equipment and components we want/need and challenges that go with the limited availability as we too have experienced quite a bit of that here in the USA.

Being in different time zones may make our forum exchanges not as smooth but I hope the information we provide help you resolve your problems so you can enjoy shooting/reloading better.

THR members here usually are able to resolve most problems presented on the forum, so have hope. :)

Keep us posted on how things go.
 
Hey Guys
Thanks a heap for all info, but I managed to sort out the .40 without resorting to sanding the breech by server hard work and also by seating the projectile the further into the case as I think the round nose at the recommended spec was either jamming into the barrel causing the case to not just plunk in.
I had to re-adjust all of the 400 rounds and did everyone the plunk test with success and I do mean everyone. I also rang the guy I bought the 140 g projectiles to ask if they are .401. He stated the they were between 401 to 402 and I told him what has happen and he suggested I bring couple loaded and couple of bullets .
I wonder why so much problems with the 140g RN and yet I loaded his 170g FP and didn't need to bugle any of them as the plunk test was positive every round of a 100 cases. Funny Hey.
Regards
coonan1911
 
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