Pocket Dilemma

[Alberforth]

Yet another pocket gun thread, I know. :banghead:

It’s lately dawned on me (yeah sometimes I’m a little slow) that really THE core issue in CCW is speed, i.e. getting that first shot off, and the next few shots on target ASAP*. So in just the last few weeks I’ve become a pocket pistol fan.

I looked at a PM9 yesterday and tried it in a pocket of some typical business casual type pants, and it fit, and I think with a holster and some practice presentation would be quick. If the weight gets to be an issue I don’t mind upgrading to a gunbelt to help distribute the weight better. Yes I will also shop for clothes that make it work.

But the gun, with my hand on it, did hang up a bit at the pocket opening (as well as the pocket itself but the holster should cure that), and I keep wondering if maybe I’m thinking too big and should step down to a .380 for the sake of speed. The Sig P238 seems like it would be just that 10-20 percent smaller and lighter to make daily carry and fast presentation more certain. I know there are cheaper .380s but shootability is a factor for me, I want something I will practice with and be able to get follow up shots on target with, but fast.

I’m 5' 11", relatively slim build but a little heavy in the thighs and usually wear pleated pants. In pocket carry threads there are always 1 or 2 guys who say they carry a PM9 in pocket no problem, and then some others who say they can’t make it work. I wonder what the difference is.

Any insights appreciated. (Yeah I know, get both )

*I know one can argue this, but for me it boils down to preparing for worst case scenarios as best you can, and the most likely worst case for me is that I will be dealing with one or two bad guys and have no time to get the gun out.

 

[Remllez]

Good points you make but I might add situational awareness to the top of your list. Also removing yourself from a situation that may include use of force. Pants carry is hard for me because I don't wear loose baggy pants..I don't wear skin tight jeans either just regular jeans,but anything bigger than a front pants wallet doesn't look normal,or feel right for that matter.

 

[gbelleh]

The PM9 works for me as a pocket gun, but of course it works best in loose fitting pants or shorts with large pockets. It doesn't work in the front pocket of jeans. Especially if you're willing to shop for clothes that work, the PM9 should be ok. There should be no need to step down to .380.

 

[dtsdave]

Here is my pocket experience. To start with I wear cargo shorts daily. I have both a Ruger lcp and a kahr pm9. They both pocket carry very well for me. However the lcp is much lighter and thinner. The kahr is an awesome package but is sort of a little brick. In my shorts it does not matter but in tighter clothes it would.

 

[gearhead]

I wear Business Casual (i.e. Dockers style) pants every day so they have just average-sized pockets. In fact, some of my jeans have larger front pockets than my everyday pants. My state practically mandates pocket carry because of the need to disarm in so many places (gunbuster signage carries force of law, any establishment that has a permit for alcohol consumption on the premises is prohibited, plus all the other gun-free zones that are typical) and since I wear a tucked shirt with those pants it’s a pain to untuck, disarm, get my shirt tucked back in and looking presentable, then repeat the drill to re-arm when I exit the gun-free zone. I find that a pocket 9 is perfect, it’s a little bulky when seated but when standing or walking it disappears and a DeSantis Superfly holds the pistol in position and it stays in the pocket when I draw. I carry either a Taurus 709 Slim or a milsurp Radom P-64 and they are both ideal for my daily needs. The only real disadvantage to pocket carry is that it’s almost impossible to draw while seated and buckled in when in the car, if I’m going on a long road trip then I carry IWB.

 

[PX15]

FWIW:

I've been carrying a concealed weapon of some description or another since 1966..

When I could...

Trouble is I live in S.E. Georgia, where the summers are hotter than the 7 depths of hell, and most of the time NO outer garment can be worn, reasonably.

Several years ago I found out the largest pistol/revolver I could HONESTLY carry concealed on a regular basis was the NAA Guardian in 32 cal, or the KelTec P32.. Then I was able to up the caliber to the Seecamp LWS380, and that sucker is so small you can carry it anyplace, anytime with no concern for ease of concealment.

Then I found out the Ruger LCP (or I'm sure the KT P3AT from which it was cloned) can also be carried in a rear pocket holster, under most conditions, in most jeans/trousers..

Recently I bought a Ruger LC9 and I found out while I like it, it's a very good little 9MM pistol, it is still too large for honest, reasonable concealed carry.

So, I'm back to swapping between my kinda tiny LCP, and my very tiny, LWS380. (Depending on the pants I'm wearing)..

Everyone wants the biggest, baddest firearm he/she can carry concealed, but anything bigger than what I'm already carrying on a daily basis is simply too large.

I've got probably 20-25+ other pistols/revolvers, but only the LWS32 or LWS380 (I have both) or the Ruger LCP work for me.


Just personal opinion,

Jesse

 

[Guns and more]

+1 on the Seecamp.
Mine is a .32, it's the exact size of a .380 but half the price.
There's no reason NOT to drop it in your pocket.
I also have a Sig 238, Kahr PM-9, PPK, but the Seecamp wins, usually.

 

[2wheels]

I'm a small guy, I carry the P238 when I ride my motorcycle or on the rare occasion that I don't believe I can conceal a larger gun, like at my second job where I'm moving around alot and DON'T want my coworkers or the customers spotting a gun poking out from under a shirt.

For such a small gun, it definitely is very "shootable" compared to many other similarly sized .380s. No doubt because it's probably also a bit heavier, and has decent sights.

It's pretty darn quick out of my Galco pocket holster, I don't worry about my ability to get it out and into action.

 

[ForumSurfer]

My state practically mandates pocket carry because of the need to disarm in so many places (gunbuster signage carries force of law, any establishment that has a permit for alcohol consumption on the premises is prohibited, plus all the other gun-free zones that are typical) and since I wear a tucked shirt with those pants it’s a pain to untuck, disarm, get my shirt tucked back in and looking presentable, then repeat the drill to re-arm when I exit the gun-free zone.

You must be from NC, too.

It is a complete pain to disarm if you are all tucked in, I feel your pain. Still, I've yet to test drive a pocket gun and holster combo that I'm willing to carry. I just can't get a good grip on the little suckers in my pocket and then draw smoothly. It ends up being some awkward to or three finger grab that eventually morphs into a grip. I'll stick with something glock 26 and 19 sized for now.

 

[PX15]

G&m:

FWIW, I carry the LWS380 because I have one, but the jury is still out on how much more effective the 32 vs 380 rd. is coming from such a short barrel anyway..

And I can GUARANTEE you that the LWS32 is light years easier to shoot well, than the LWS380.

I actually prefer carrying my LCP when I can over the Seecamp because my LCP has both the IA night sight upgrade and a Crimson Trace Laser.

But as mentioned before there ARE times and situations where the only pistol I can carry concealed IS one of the Seecamps.

Nice to have choices.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[Zerodefect]

I gave up on pocket carry. Too slow from a pants pocket. Ok from a jacket pocket, but I hate how my jacket gets heavy. And they print like crazy in my pants.

Keep in mind that a tiny mini .380 like the Keltecs or Kahr p380 conceal extremely well OWB. And Crossbreed has a Minituck for most of these. You don't have to bury these little guns IWB or back around 5oclock like larger pistols.

I carry a P380 IWB in a Minituck, but sometimes I'll carry it OWB in a Kydex paddle I made.

 

[jim157]

2 Wheels

How do you like the Stoeger cougar?


Jim157

 

[DAdams]

I haven't pocket carried my PM9 in quite some time, but I am interested in revisiting it and giving it another pocket try. I have a DeSantis Nemesis for it and probably need to try another holster too.

My top pocket choices (purchasd befor the likes of the Kahr .380, Ruger and S&W Body Guard).

Seecamp LWS .380
S&W M&P Revolver with CT grips 5 rounds of .38 spl plus P. 13.3 ounces MT.
Kahr PM9

Between one of these three there isn't any dress code I can't accomodate in the pocket carry genre.

If money is not an object you may wish to consider the Rohrbaugh R9 or R9s.



Most days EDC Seecamp LWS .380, Spyderco Native, 4Sevens Preon II stylus.



The size difference between a 12 ounce Seecamp and a J Frame.


M&P in a Mika roundcut pocket holster. This package conceals amazingly well.
Crimson Trace 405 grips and XS Standard Dot night sights.

 

[Lex Luthier]

This is a great thread. How about shoulder arrangements? I am considering a Don Johnson special, since I wear a lot of jackets.

Is a guy supposed to get pants a size too big for an inside the belt conceal?

 

[ForumSurfer]

Is a guy supposed to get pants a size too big for an inside the belt conceal?

Depends on your build and how you wear your pants. You just can't know until you try. I carry IWB often and my pants aren't +2 in the waist even with a glock carried IWB. I detest wearing anything remotely baggy, so mine fit pretty close.

This is a great thread. How about shoulder arrangements? I am considering a Don Johnson special, since I wear a lot of jackets.

If I wore jackets often, I'd just carry in the most comfortable way there is....OWB at 3 or 4 o'clock. I hate jackets, it doesn't get too cold here in the south. I take my jacket off while driving and the first chance I get indoors, so I still carry in the same positions and styles year round.

 

[SwampWolf]

When considering which pistol to get for pocket carry, it's my opinion that, aside from extreme reliability, the weight of the handgun, and, to a certain extent, the overall size and configuration of it, become a couple of the more important aspects to weigh (pun intended ). I feel that in terms of comfort and concealment for pure pocket carry, a handgun should not weigh much more than ten ounces or so and be not much larger than a Ruger LCP or a KelTec 3AT. Anything weighing much more or being much bigger than these two examples might better be carried in a holster. And if I'm carrying a handgun in a holster, the weight and size of the handgun become much less important and a step-up to a 9mm or .38 Special chambering becomes a more viable choice.

 

[ttheel]

The Ruger LCP and Keltec P-3at are hard to beat for pocket carry. They just disappear with a good pocket holster and they dont feel like you are carrying around a brick. Either can pretty much be carried with about any attire.

 

[2wheels]

How do you like the Stoeger cougar?


Jim157

Reliable, accurate, little recoil. I don't like slide mounted safety/decockers, but it's not a big deal. It's a great shooter, and they're pretty darned cheap for such a nice gun.

 

[bhk]

I often carry a PM40 in my pocket in warmer weather. Works fine in all kinds of pants. I also occassionally carry a SW642 or a Kahr P380 in my pocket. The 642 is the easiest to draw from a pocket due to its shape and, although wider than the PM40, doesn't appear to print as much. To clarify, it definitely looks like something is in my pocket, put it looks less 'handgun' like than the small autos. The PM40 works better in shallower pockets, because it is obviously shorter.

 

[ceetee]

G&m:

FWIW, I carry the LWS380 because I have one, but the jury is still out on how much more effective the 32 vs 380 rd. is coming from such a short barrel anyway..

And I can GUARANTEE you that the LWS32 is light years easier to shoot well, than the LWS380.

I actually prefer carrying my LCP when I can over the Seecamp because my LCP has both the IA night sight upgrade and a Crimson Trace Laser.

But as mentioned before there ARE times and situations where the only pistol I can carry concealed IS one of the Seecamps.

Nice to have choices.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

I just installed the Crimson Trace laser unit on my wife's LCP, and sighted it in today. I have to say - I never appreciated how accurate this little pistol was firing it from the main sights only. It's so diminutive in hand that it's very easy to pull your shot one way or another. Using the laser, I could see that the rounds were going exactly where the dot was when the gun fired. It's so accurate that if you can hold steady enough, you can get groups that are MUCH tighter than the iron sights will allow for.

The laser is a great add-on - well worth the price.

 

[Alberforth]

Many thanks to everyone for great posts and food for thought. I will definitely give some more thought to the other guns mentioned. Meanwhile, since it seems the PM9 may possibly work, right now I'm inclined to try it. Worst thing that could happen is I end up knowing for sure that it doesn't work and sell it on.

To get back to Remllez' comment, I agree that situational awareness is fundamental. It's the prerequisite which gives pocket carry the potential to have the fastest threat response time of any deep-conceal method of carry, since you can have your gun gripped before you know for sure that you're going to need it.