Point of Impact Issues with S&W Shield

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DMW1116

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I bought a Shield a couple years ago when they were $250 from PSA. I’ve been shooting it a lot more lately trying to tighten up a bit. Every few months I set up a silhouette at 25 yards and shoot a few rounds of my carry ammo, 147 grain XTP. I do this with my Shield and M&P9. The M&P9 does better by quite a margin.

The good news is the Shield groups are definitely improving. The first time I hit all the rings from 7 to 10 This time it was a pretty obvious group about 5 or 6 inches across. However it’s apparent now the group is hitting right, while the M&P9 is pretty well centered. Can I just move the sights or is it likely still something I’m doing? For comparison I also tried a Walther PPS and the shots were basically centered but it was only at 7 yards. A84E8B81-4B30-45BB-B734-649896ED7604.jpeg
 
That is typical of either placing the trigger on the first joint instead of the pad, or sights that need to be moved.
 
If it still shoots a horizontal string after moving the sights, decrease the pressure of your thumb on the grip.

If you still get horizontal stringing after all of that, put less of your finger on the trigger.
 
My S&W M&P Shield 9mm sights were very far off out of the box, the front sight was obviously off center just by looking at it. Confirmed even further with a laser bore sight. I tapped it over in a vice with a brass punch, until center. It has been dead on POA/POI ever since.

So, basically yes the sights can very well be off... they are NOT zeroed at the factory.
 
I forgot to mention I shoot left handed. That might change some things. It appears the elevation is pretty much on fwtw.
 
DMW1116 said:
I forgot to mention I shoot left handed. That might change some things. It appears the elevation is pretty much on fwtw.
Click to expand...
I'm lefthanded also. Being lefthanded is most likely not the problem as opposed to adjusting the sights.
 
Pretty much always working on trigger control. This is the first time I’ve ever shot a better group at 25 yards with the Shield than the M&P9. The M&P9 group is just centered better. 1320BFC5-934A-44A7-BC15-DA74B8CDEAA8.jpeg
 
Have you already verified the mechanical accuracy?

Have you already verified the sights are zeroed to your preferred cartridge at your preferred range?

I would verify those first, and then work on answering the question "What do I need to do, as a human, to get as close as I can to the mechanical accuracy potential of this handgun?"

-Stan
 
My M&P9SC shoots better groups than either of my shields.

I figure the M&P is a duty class gun so maybe it’s a little better quality or maybe it just fits me better?

25 yards is ambitious and not my idea of a range to check accuracy, but you seem to be on paper so I don’t think your issue is serious.

FWIW I’m a lefty and I invested in a rear sight pusher because I got shaky trigger skills
 
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The M&P9 has always been easier to shoot. I think I just got lucky this time. The first time I tried this the best I could say is the Shield kept all the shots in the green. The M&P9 was pretty well the same as this time, just a bigger group about 6-7 inches across.

This is my preferred load. I choose practice loads based on how well they mimic this one. I had someone else shoot it but it was a long time ago and only at 5 yards. At that distance the lateral off set isn’t noticeable.

I shot this load in the Shield off a rest at 10 yards and 25. It holds about 1” and 5” respectively. In both cases it shoots to the right.
 
Every factory new handgun I’ve acquired over the last 3 decades has NOT shot to POA EXCEPT the most recently acquired S&W EZ .30SC.

My. Sheild .40 shot 6” right at 15yds. Sight was so tight, a local gunsmith had to use a 5ld hammer and grade 8 bolt ground to fit to remove it. I then fitted the rear sight to where it was driftable with a brass punch.
A subsequent 9mm also shot right, but not quite as much.

My Bodyguard.380, which gets carried the most, shot right AND high. I drifted the sight left and filled about 0.15” off the top of the rear sight. It’s coated stainless steel, so I used matte black paint to touch it up. It shoots surprisingly well. I dispatched a car hit deer with it. An 85gr Winchester Silver tip to the right eye socket was rather impressive! I carry 90gr Hornady XTP’s.

I “had” a 5” FDE M&P 9mm. I was so disappointed, I gave it to my preacher and suggested he pray he never needs to use it! Nah, it wasn’t that bad, but I did put a set of Williams adjustable fire dot sights on it. Didn’t help much...

My Sheild EZ .30 has me wondering how accurate a 9mm might be!?
 
I tested some loads from a rest this weekend. They shot less right than before, but I was also shooting at 10 yards with different bullets. Projectile/load choice seems to change POI a fair bit. The projectile used was a 147 grain XTP, which historically has shot closer to center than others. I also shot a couple groups with Acme 125 grain green coated bullets. These all shot slightly right, so I'm currently of the opinion that it is both me and the sights, and I can fix both. The best Silhouette group was pretty well centered. Also, elevation is typically a bit high at this range, but seems dead on at 25 yards.
 
I don't think the groups from the Shield are improving; rather yours are. Simply amazing the affect the shooter has on a handgun.
 
You didn’t see the old groups. When I first bought it I couldn’t keep 9 shots inside the 8-ring.

The Shield will shoot however it shoots. My groups have improved drastically. My best hand loads will shoot an inch or so at 10 yards off a rest. I’ve been holding off on moving the sights further until I improved enough to tell what to do.

This is the frustrating part. The top group is my Blackhawk at 10 yards off hand using one hand. The bottom group is my Shield at 10 yards from a rest. It’s 4 shots but 2 went through the middle hole. Both are with hand loads that shoot well from their respective pistols. The Shield is just harder to shoot. I don’t think it should be that hard but still.
64A8557A-0FBE-448D-BDB4-3E3828113CC5.jpeg
 
Ethan Verity said:
My S&W M&P Shield 9mm sights were very far off out of the box, the front sight was obviously off center just by looking at it. Confirmed even further with a laser bore sight. I tapped it over in a vice with a brass punch, until center. It has been dead on POA/POI ever since.

So, basically yes the sights can very well be off... they are NOT zeroed at the factory.
Click to expand...

I’ve tried that twice and couldn’t budge it. The only success I’ve had is with my gunsmith buddies sight pusher. Still need to move about 0.02” if the sights are in fact the issue. I’m going to give it some more practice at 25 yards and see if I get the same results.
 
I have been doing a lot of dry firing practice and I saw the movement last night. It is sometimes a slight push to the right though elevation doesn’t seem to change much. It’s not every time but it’s often enough that overall groups are slightly right.

I plan to move my trigger finger and change overall grip slightly. The grip is relatively thin and encourages my trigger finger to be up near the first knuckle. Moving just 1/8” toward the end seems to stop the occasional drift. Of course the real test will require live fire. For now I’ll change my dry fire to the new grip to try to work on memory and plan to confirm this weekend. It might still be slightly right but this should improve things.
 
My experience with the Shield is that the sights are usually good out of the box. The Shield is a short range defensive handgun designed for close contact. I don't think the OPs 25 yard group is too far off and probably trigger finger related.
 
Regardless of sights being adjusted correctly, examine the shot group. The shot group - all fired at the same aiming point WITHOUT looking at the results when fired - should be in a roughly circular group. If so, use the distance and direction from the aiming point to the center of the shot group for which direction and how much correct to apply.

If the group is ovoid, then the shooter is committing an error in shooting or something is loose in the firearm. Sights are most readily suspected; they should not wiggle or move when prodded with a finger. Also consider Handgun Trigger Pull Error Chart by searching the net for such.

DMW I cannot tell if the original picture shows all the shots to the right, or just four. First response was to think all the shots formed an oval 'string' to the right. Which for a left handed shooter would indicate your trigger finger is 'pushing' on the trigger. (I know, as I'm right handed and long ago all my shots went to the left.)
 
Yes there were only 4 shots. As noted above I am pushing the trigger to the right or it’s my eyes. I usually have to move iron sights a bit to the left on about everything, rifles or pistols.

I was shooting a lot more rifle this time last year developing loads for my A4 clone and the rear sight was one or two clicks left. My Victory target pistol was the same way.

Apparently I’m on my way to fixing the problem because all my adjustable sight pistols are now shooting left. I just shot my Blackhawk today and shots were walking left. I replaced the sights on my Victory with a red dot but before that they were a bit left now too. They were centered before but no longer. I have to sight in my 336 with the new Williams FP sight so I’ll see where it ends up.
 
On the original Shield S&W glue the sights in with locktite and top of having the dovetails to tight to start with.
They are really hard to move.
My Gen 1 shot really bad to the left and I had to move both sights to compensate. It shoots pretty much dead center now, but yeah, moving those sights are a challenge. I remember S&W saying to use an electric soldering iron to heat the slide up and melt the locktite before trying to move them.
I couldn't see where it worked. They are ridiculously tight.
 
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