Police Academy Firearms Training

[boalex207]

For former and current LEO's and Correctional Officers:

Tell me about your Academy firearms training - how many hours, tactics, courses of fire, quality of instructors, things you were taught that you later discovered were BravoSierra, something you learned that always stayed with you, how well the Academy firearms curriculum prepared you, etc. etc.

Interested also in when you went through the Academy and what part of the country.

Thanks for all replies

 

[Jeff22]

Police Academy FirearmsTraining

The first formal firearms training I ever received was in 1980, when I went through Air Force Basic Training. After basic, I attended the USAF Security Police Academy at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas. I was a law enforcement specialist (in the ANG) and we were trained on the S&W 15 Combat Masterpiece .38 cal revolver and the M-16 rifle. (I've always really liked the AR-15/M-16 rifle and to this day enjoy shooting the Smith & Wesson Combat Masterpiece Revolver)

The ranges were at nearby Medina Air Force Station, and we got (I think) 2 days of training on the M-16 and 2 days of training on the M15 revolver.

The level of instruction was pretty basic. With the revolver, most of the course was shot on an NRA B-18 target single action at 25 yards. I think the only parts we fired double action were at 15 yards. (I fired "expert" and I think I fired expert with the handgun everytime we qualified during my entire 20 year career. We transitioned to the Beretta M9 pistol in late 1991)

Most of the rifle course was fired at 100 yards, except for the final stage which was fired from the "point shoulder" position (without using the sights!) at 25 yards. (During the time that the AF used that particular course, I never qualified "expert" with the rifle -- that final stage always killed me.)

(I already owned an AR-15 and a Ruger Security 6 revolver and had done a fair amount of shooting and even competed in a few local IPSC matches, so I didn't learn much that was new. Still, having information presented in a structured and organized way is always a benefit and can help fill in gaps in your knowledge that you didn't know you had. It was a fun week)

We shot the AFQC (air force qualification course), which everybody in the AF had to fire, and also the SPC (security police course) which was specific to the cops. I have copies of the courses of fire someplace in my files -- neither course was particularly challenging, and it was easy to shoot a high score provided that your gun was sighted in properly.

The tactical training we did at the end of the Academy. While still at the SP Academy, we did practice traffic stops (daylight & dark) and building searches. They issued us worn out M15 revolvers that were all welded up and couldn't fire, and that's what we used in the exercises.

The final week we went to Camp Bullis which was at that time the home of the Air Base Ground Defense School. There we were issued beat up M-16s with blank adaptors, and did various combat related drills -- convoy escorts, protected a mock airfield from attack by guerrilas (the airfield had deactivated T-28 Trojan prop driven trainers parked out on the "ramp", and those were the targets of the "terrorists"), and a combat patrol. I remember that it rained a lot, but never very hard, so we were always soggy but not particularly miserable.

(We were at the end of the fiscal year, and VERY low on 5.56mm blanks and toilet paper)

In the spring of 1981 I attended the local regional police academy. (I used my Ruger Security 6 revolver). The instructional staff were made up of instructors from the City PD and Deputies from the Sheriff's Office. They did a decent job of teaching basics, but they were kind of old-fashioned. We were (for reasons unknown) prohibited from using speed-loaders or a belt-slide with loops or dump pouches, so we had to reload from our pockets!! We couldn't use auto pistols. They wanted us to shoot using the traditional Isoceles Stance.

By that time, I had been shooting in local IPSC matches for 3 years. I shot then (and still do today) from a modified Weaver Stance, and the instructors gave me a lot of (fairly good natured) grief about it, but since I was the best shot in the class (by a slim margin) they basically left me alone.

We shot variations of the traditional PPC course on the NRA B-27 target. If I remember correctly, it was all double action except for the stage at 25 yards, where we could shoot single action at our option. (we didn't shoot a 50 yard stage)(I still think the PPC is a good way to practice basics, provided that you use a realistic sized target like an IPSC silhouette, and don't shoot your revolver single action)

We also did a little shooting at bullseyes at 25 yards. I don't remember if that was from the traditional one handed dueling stance or not, but I don't think so.

We also spent a day on the M870 shotgun, shooting buckshot & slugs on paper targets and shooting clay pigeons on the trap & skeet range. (I have a cross-dominant master eye -- am right handed (and shoot right handed) with a left master eye, and I've NEVER been any good at shooting clay pigeons)

We did a little bit of shooting on multiple targets, and while using the barricade as cover, but nothing that you would consider particularly "tactical".

(I went to my first firearms instructor school at the State Patrol Academy in August of 1982. It was very similar. We shot the Camp Perry Bullseye Course (one handed) and variations of the PPC with the handgun and shotgun with buckshot & slugs on paper targets and with birdshot at Clay Pigeons. The training in the legal aspects of use of force was pretty good, and it was a good review of the basics, but all that particular course did was prepare you to teach police recruits at a very basic level. Fortunately, by the time I started teaching in the Academy myself in 1988, the program had progressed a lot, and local agencies were in the midst of the transition to the auto pistol)

 

[phantomak47]

One of my good friends who is a former Marine (CQB team leader at a certain Naval base) first joined my hometown Correctional department. Most of these guys were brand new to firearms and had never even held a pistol. Training consisted of very basic firearm handling and shooting, it was only three days worth and qualification was firing 50 rounds. My friend thought that it was scary, as he put it.



He ended up leaving the Jail he was working at because they have serious mismanagement problems (about 6 correctional officers were arrested in the past year) and other interesting happenings going on there. He ended up at a Police department, the training was a much better , but still a lot of the cadets were very limited in firearms handling. Yet again this is very basic training and most of the guys there didnt have much interest in shooting or firearms in general, only shooting when they have to qualify.

 

[Reyn]

We spent a day or so in class then 3 fulldays on the range.We also had night fires with lights on and sometimes siren. I went through almost 8yrs ago.

The part i dont agree with is the qualification is geared more towards target shooting as opposed to moving and shooting. We did do several courses that were moving and engaging multiple targets but it wasnt part of the qualification. My dept just qualifies twice a year and its the state standard.

I have a 50yd range in my backyard with cement markers from 5yds to 50 that i shoot regularly. Some of our guys dont shoot other than qualifying and it shows in their scores.

 

[GRIZ22]

When I started as a municipal police officer in 1974 firearms tarining consisted of about 24 hours of classroom and 40 hours of range time. The only weapons covered were revolver and shotgun. No one in my class had an issued semi-auto as hardly anyone issued them then nationwide. The training was very good as all the instructors were working on the street (a week at the police academy was kind of an R&R) and were gun oriented guys.
We fired the FBI PPC at the time for qualification up to 50 yards.

I went to my first Firearms Instructors school put on by the FBI locally. Once again only revolvers and shotguns. The instruction was very good although agency bias was pevalent. I asked the instructor what he thought of semi autos (I was in the process of being converted by the writings of Jeff Cooper and others). His response I'll never forget. He said, "I'm not the firearms genius John Browning was but if a semi-auto was the best thing for law enforcement the FBI would be using them". This was in the middle 70s.

I went to the Federal goverment and overall the firearms training was excellent as I had the good fortune to get the "combat shooters". I found that the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center had two kinds of instructors, match shooters and combat shooters. The match shooters would teach you all the tricks to shoot a good qualification score. Jim Cirillo was the most well known instructor I had. Jim said "First we'll get you to shoot a good qualification score and then we'll teach you how to shoot to stay alive". He did.

I went through 3 basic courses for the Federal goverment and all required at the minimum over 100 hrs of firearms training. Handgun qualification shrunk from 50 yards and a bullseye qualification to a 25 yard qual course over the years. Yes,we did fire 2" revolvers from 50 yards, so much for those thinking they are doing great with 8" groups at 10 yards.

Advanced training (rifle, subgun, instructor's courses) was conducted by my agency and they were all notable shooters in their own right. I always enjoyed going to one of their courses.

I see a lot of people post comments on how bad LEOs shoot and having been a firearms instructor for over 30 years I'll agree there are some. My first police academy training came to about 100 hours of training when you include the legal and physchological training and screening. All LEOs in my state had to have physchological screening before they got the job something no state does for a CCW. I'm not advocating this as a requirement for a CCW but it does support the argument LEOs have more training and screening than most people.

 

[sacp81170a]

Jeff22:

in 1980, when I went through Air Force Basic Training. After basic, I attended the USAF Security Police Academy at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas. I was a law enforcement specialist (in the ANG) and we were trained on the S&W 15 Combat Masterpiece .38 cal revolver and the M-16 rifle. (I've always really liked the AR-15/M-16 rifle and to this day enjoy shooting the Smith & Wesson Combat Masterpiece Revolver)

Man, talk about old home week... I went to basic in December of '79 and graduated from the Academy in April. I was a security specialist since that was back in the days when the career field was split into law enforcement and security. We spent our time on the range with the M-16, M-203 and M-60, since we were more like infantry than you guys in LE. IIRC, we spent two weeks at Medina, one on the M-16 and the next week split between M-203 and M-60. We did the SPQC and the AFQC with the M-16 and a night fire. Failure to qualify on either meant you were no longer in the Security Police.

Got lots more live fire with all three(16, 60, 203) at Camp Bullis during Air Base Ground Defense training with the addition of the M-72 LAW, the good ol' M26A1 Grenade, Hand, Fragmentation, and the M18A1 Mine, Antipersonnel. Dang, them were the good old days.

I didn't get to shoot the M-15 until I joined the EST at Warren AFB, but then got to shoot both it and the shotgun, AFQC and SPQC once a quarter. Got lots more tactical handgun and shotgun training as a member of the EST and attended the FBI basic and advanced SWAT courses put on by the Denver Field Office while I was at Warren. Fired and qualified expert on the FBI Q course as a graduation requirement.

Civilian LE-wise, we had a 100 hours of handgun and shotgun training and tactics at the academy which included range time, tactics, and retention technique. I also had to attend a state mandated 40 hour patrol rifle course before I was allowed to carry an AR on duty. We have quarterly tactical training and FoF training with SIMS and I've been to several Active Shooter classes, probably a total of 100 hours.

All LEOs in my state had to have physchological screening before they got the job something no state does for a CCW. I'm not advocating this as a requirement for a CCW but it does support the argument LEOs have more training and screening than most people.

Same here in Arkansas.

 

[K.O.A.M.]

In Florida, new recruits go through 80 hours of firearms training. You must qualify with the semi automatic pistol on a 48 round course, longest shot being 25 yards. For instructor certification, you must take another 40 hour course, with a proficiency requirement.

A large quantity of what I was exposed to, I would classify as not helpful. They spend large amounts of time on the revolver, only fire 8 rounds from a 12 gauge pump for familiarity and have no mandated practical shooting exercise. I am fortunate that I work for an agency that has two first rate lead instructors. I have learned more from them since becoming an instructor than I had in my whole time shooting.

 

[Jeff22]

this is potentially too interesting a discussion to have it die so soon

 

[Kind of Blued]

I'm at a crossroads in my life as a 22 year old, trying to decide how I should balance the four things I am truly in love with and passionate about. I'm basically looking to learn as much as possible about what I can do with firearms in the civilian law enforcement world. I've been considering a career in law enforcement and am disturbed by the lack of knowledge and experience that officers have of and with their weapons and tools.

My four loves being jazz, firearms, beer and women, of which three I can develop a career (without sacrificing morality), and jazz and brewing are extremely unstable and difficult in which to form a career. Both are also self-actualizing and easier to develop as lifelong hobbies.

Pardon the verbosity, I may start a seperate thread, but it may be relevant enough to be addressed here.

 

[Erik]

I've been through four academies in the past decade:

76 hours classroom and range time covering pistol and shotgun use, 2500 +/- rounds, comprehensive basic course.

80 hours classroom and range time covering pistol and shotgun use, 2000 +/- rounds, less than lethal firearms training, comprehensive basic/intermediate course.

72 hours classroom and range time covering pistol and shotgun use, 2000 +/- rounds, less than lethal firearms training, comprehensive basic/intermediate course.

80 hours classroom and range time covering pistol, shotgun, adn rifle use, 2500 +/- rounds, less than lethal firearms training, comprehensive intermediate course.

The firearms training was mostly square range training. Shoot, don't shoot video and less than lethal firearms scenarios were incorporated into three of them. Aimed fire, point shooting, two handed shooting, one handed shooting, off handed shooting, shooting from odd cover positions, the basics of shooting and moving, use of cover and concealment, concealed carry, basic tactics, low light shooting, etc were covered in all. Granted some more than others - They all had their strengths and weaknesses. All offered solid training for the real world. (The final was intermediate in nature by design, building from the third.)

The hours reflect training recieved by designated firearms instructors. Many more blended/cross-over hours of instruction were provided by non-firearms instructors which are not accounted for.

BS flag encountered rarely and usually revolving around doctrine on stances, equipement, and the clash between the "gunners" and the "fighters;" both sided need to intergrate. The first two academies gave intergration of knowledge, skills, and abilitites lip service; the second two integrated them fairly well. It is an evolving process... FOF is a must, and while present in to some extent, should have been more intense.

---

It is a myth that all American LEOs are poorly trained. Some are very well trained, relatively speaking. Those who are not deserve better support from their communities and leadership.

 

[AKCOP]

I am retired, 8 years now, did 25 years in two different states, AK & MN,
attended academy in MN 1976 and 143rd FBINA.
In all courses I particpated in and all that I am familiar with the most important component is missing or not stressed nearly enough.
Teaching to shoot and shooting is a small part, knowing when you can legally shoot, or threaten to shoot is far more important. For those still in the game, I would challenge you to walk up to a new officer or any officer for that matter and ask them to tell you what the law is regarding the use of deadly force, ask them if they know where it is found in the statute. If they can't recite that as quickly and as sure as the miranda warning they have no business carrying a gun. Trust me you are going to be shocked at how many officers haven't a clue.

 

[VA27]

Well, in boot camp (1966) they bussed us out to the range, we watched a guy fire a Thompson and we got to fire a clip of ammo through an M1 Garand. (I mean, why does a squid need to know how to shoot?)

Went to the academy in 1976. At that time, the WHOLE academy was 160hrs! I think we got two or three days on the range. Back then we still shot revolvers and the PPC course. One hand hip shooting from the seven yard line, point shoulder from the 15. We couldn't use the sights until we got to the 25 and 50 yard line. For shotgun training we shot trap! I don't recall much about the instructors.

Fast forward to '89. I applied for the firearms instructor course. To get a testing slot, you had to shoot an 80% on the 60rd PPC. The test was 3 days on the range, and you had to shoot a 90% to get a slot in the school.

The instructor shool itself was a month long. Revolver, semiauto pistol, shotgun, firearm maintenance, range operations and FATS. You had to shoot a minimum score of 90% on the range courses and 100% on all written tests. A year later a week of rifle instructor school. Three months later a week of long-range rifle instructor school. I've even been to a week of lever-action rifle instructor school! (That was more fun than cussin' a cat!)

The instructors were all top notch, dedicated shooters. And even better, not only could they could teach you how to do it, they could teach you how to teach others how to do it. It was great stuff!

The academy now is like 700hrs and cadets get a full seven days on the range. 'Course, nowdays it's semiauto pisto only, no revolvers and shotgun training is worlds ahead of shooting trap!

Before the first Gulf War, I spent a weekend with a local National Guard unit, teaching basic rifle marksmanship. After the last shot was fired, one of the old hands came up to me and said, "I've been in the Guard nearly 20 years and I learned more about the rifle this weekend than I have since I've been in." That felt good.