Police Academy Memory...
- Thread starter Michael Tinker Pearce
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armoredman
Member
When I arrived at the Academy in 2002, they told me it was a military style boot camp. Having BEEN to boot camp, I spent the first week trying to hide the snickers.
Funny you mentioned qualifying in the snow - mine was the first class to qualify in the snow...in Tucson. No jacket and shooting in the snow I qualified with 247 out of 250. Yes, I know what that sounds like, absolute truth. And this desert rat HATES cold weather!
So who gets to be Whaddyamean Dean?
Funny you mentioned qualifying in the snow - mine was the first class to qualify in the snow...in Tucson. No jacket and shooting in the snow I qualified with 247 out of 250. Yes, I know what that sounds like, absolute truth. And this desert rat HATES cold weather!
So who gets to be Whaddyamean Dean?
lemaymiami
Member
More memories... I really liked everything Wambaugh wrote and in fact I only applied to be a cop after reading the New Centurions in 1973 (I'm a reader so this was a few years before any movies...). I was already a vet but it took a few years before I worked out the bad taste that Vietnam left me with... and would even consider working for any government again.... As I noted in my first post my outfit wasn't exactly much to be proud of early on - in fact during my first five years I was turned down for every in service school (class) that I asked for. I finally got to go to a week's school after I shot a guy on the street and they wanted me out of town for a few days...
Years later when I was in charge of training I did my level best to make sure that young officers got their share of additional training - and our FTO program was a model that other agencies copied... so I actually came full circle...
Years later when I was in charge of training I did my level best to make sure that young officers got their share of additional training - and our FTO program was a model that other agencies copied... so I actually came full circle...
MedWheeler
Member
DPris writes:
My academy class was the same year the movie Full Metal Jacket came out. I had not yet seen it.
My instructors had.
My academy class was the same year the movie Full Metal Jacket came out. I had not yet seen it.
My instructors had.
Seems like our Academy was 6 weeks, if I remember right.
The primary purposes of a military boot camp are:
To break everybody down to the same level (same clothes, same hair, same living quarters, same subjugation to authority, etc.).
To build back up in the (fill-in-branch-of-service) way.
To instruct in military protocols.
To educate in certain military subjects.
To instill a military mindset.
To create a "team spirit", or esprit de corps.
To establish minimum physical conditioning.
To push recruits hard, mentally and physically, on the screening theory that it's best to stress them and wash out those who break now than have them break later on in potential combat.
To teach marksmanship.
And to create a culture of instant obedience to authority (any and all authority regardless of competency), with obvious and immediate negative consequences that may include anything from pushups to washout to brig time.
Much of this is irrelevant to a civilian PD, even though most are run somewhat as paramilitary organizations in that they operate in uniforms with military rank structures.
The mission of military and LE is quite different, the working environment is quite different, penalties are quite different, the PD is NOT the army (or whichever), pissing off a supervisor does not result in pushups, telling a commanding officer no when necessary does not involve brig or demotion, and the organization does not function to carry out combat sorties on the battlefield.
A non-military FTO program out of a non-military Academy can carry out the necessary "real world" training on the street and live-action screening without a boot camp mentality or execution.
Denis
The primary purposes of a military boot camp are:
To break everybody down to the same level (same clothes, same hair, same living quarters, same subjugation to authority, etc.).
To build back up in the (fill-in-branch-of-service) way.
To instruct in military protocols.
To educate in certain military subjects.
To instill a military mindset.
To create a "team spirit", or esprit de corps.
To establish minimum physical conditioning.
To push recruits hard, mentally and physically, on the screening theory that it's best to stress them and wash out those who break now than have them break later on in potential combat.
To teach marksmanship.
And to create a culture of instant obedience to authority (any and all authority regardless of competency), with obvious and immediate negative consequences that may include anything from pushups to washout to brig time.
Much of this is irrelevant to a civilian PD, even though most are run somewhat as paramilitary organizations in that they operate in uniforms with military rank structures.
The mission of military and LE is quite different, the working environment is quite different, penalties are quite different, the PD is NOT the army (or whichever), pissing off a supervisor does not result in pushups, telling a commanding officer no when necessary does not involve brig or demotion, and the organization does not function to carry out combat sorties on the battlefield.
A non-military FTO program out of a non-military Academy can carry out the necessary "real world" training on the street and live-action screening without a boot camp mentality or execution.
Denis
wickedsprint
Member
Similar experience here. Cross eye dominant, they wanted me to try left. I declined and still managed top shot for my class. The guy that got #2 was a better shot than me but he was hampered by a very tight new holster and his agencies choice of DA/SA vs. my easier to shoot G17.
My favorite evolution was driving. Having been a gearhead all my life and having previously lived up north, I was very comfortable sliding cars around. After my first run on the skid pad, I brilliantly executed a perfect 180 degree arcing powerslide around the cone at the end of the course on the way back for run #2...The instructor immediately let me know over the radio that he was not impressed.
entropy
Member
Seeing the title, I was picturing Tackleberry going through the Hogan's Alley in 'Police Academy"....
When we (the SF CPT I worked for and I) practiced door kicking with some Force Recon Marines up from 29 Palms, I went in from both sides during the training, as did the Captain. We both went off the left shoulder going in from the left, with no difference in efficiency. The Marines were going off the right shoulder, and would lose about a third to half a second because of it.
Your comment on smoking reminded me of a SSG in our unit. After every run, he would bum a hit off my inhaler (the asthma I had as a kid came back at Ft.Ord), then bum a smoke off of one of the smokers in the group.....
When we (the SF CPT I worked for and I) practiced door kicking with some Force Recon Marines up from 29 Palms, I went in from both sides during the training, as did the Captain. We both went off the left shoulder going in from the left, with no difference in efficiency. The Marines were going off the right shoulder, and would lose about a third to half a second because of it.
Your comment on smoking reminded me of a SSG in our unit. After every run, he would bum a hit off my inhaler (the asthma I had as a kid came back at Ft.Ord), then bum a smoke off of one of the smokers in the group.....
MedWheeler
Member
wickedsprint writes:
I delivered pizza for a living for three years before entering the academy, the last of which was in a then-new Toyota 4x4 (1987.) While on a lunch break during which the instructors had left, I ran it through the slalom course we had been running the Dodge Diplomats through, and outperformed my own Dodge runs, in both forward and reverse.
I earned some pushups when one of the instructors returned a bit earlier than expected and caught me out there.
I delivered pizza for a living for three years before entering the academy, the last of which was in a then-new Toyota 4x4 (1987.) While on a lunch break during which the instructors had left, I ran it through the slalom course we had been running the Dodge Diplomats through, and outperformed my own Dodge runs, in both forward and reverse.
I earned some pushups when one of the instructors returned a bit earlier than expected and caught me out there.
lemaymiami
Member
Back when I was in charge of personnel with my outfit I got to interview almost every new applicant... Any that were veterans got first consideration always.... Vets come to the table with discipline (hopefully) and real world experience... As a result they're simply head and shoulders above a solid college graduate with no serious work experience... That's not to say that those without military experience might turn out to be solid cops - but the vets were just farther down the road in almost every respect... At least that was my take on it - not because I was a vet but from real world street experience as a sergeant then a lieutenant dealng with every aspect of the job day to day... We had a lot of former marines with us - to a man they were all first rate.... All of this was long before 9-11 and all that followed it. I was long out of police work before then...
Old Dog
Member
I can see both sides. The first academy I went through was a more high-pressure, physically-oriented and regimented para-military affair; twenty-odd years later, went through the 20-week community college type, mostly classroom academy. There are merits to both approaches.
The issue I see is the types of folks we have to recruit from these days. Most of our departments now want folks with at least two years of college, preferably with a BS/BA (which also means we're getting a more liberal generation of recruits in, for obvious reasons) and a squeaky-clean background (this is the sticky point for most, especially among the younger generation that never knew the stigma of experimentation with drugs) ... Without the emphasis anymore on physical fitness, tactical thinking and decision-making, defensive tactics and firearms, we're breeding a generation of officers who might be fairly intelligent but in the end aren't capable when it comes to many of the functions we require our officers to perform.
When I started (1979), most everyone going into law enforcement was either a former high-school or college athlete, had experience with firearms (in my part of the midwest, everyone hunted) or was a military veteran. Fast forward to now ... we got hipsters with purple hair entering the job whose last work experience was as a barista at Starbucks while attending Evergreen College and is coming into the job for all the wrong reasons.
What type of academy do you want these people going through? Hell, most of the new folks coming in can't do one pull-up or twenty-five push-ups, run two miles in under 17 minutes, shoot a real pistol qual course and don't get me started on their defensive tactics and combative hand-cuffing abilities ... but we still pass 'em through, because we still can't get enough people in the pipeline to replace the guys who are retiring in droves these days.
The issue I see is the types of folks we have to recruit from these days. Most of our departments now want folks with at least two years of college, preferably with a BS/BA (which also means we're getting a more liberal generation of recruits in, for obvious reasons) and a squeaky-clean background (this is the sticky point for most, especially among the younger generation that never knew the stigma of experimentation with drugs) ... Without the emphasis anymore on physical fitness, tactical thinking and decision-making, defensive tactics and firearms, we're breeding a generation of officers who might be fairly intelligent but in the end aren't capable when it comes to many of the functions we require our officers to perform.
When I started (1979), most everyone going into law enforcement was either a former high-school or college athlete, had experience with firearms (in my part of the midwest, everyone hunted) or was a military veteran. Fast forward to now ... we got hipsters with purple hair entering the job whose last work experience was as a barista at Starbucks while attending Evergreen College and is coming into the job for all the wrong reasons.
What type of academy do you want these people going through? Hell, most of the new folks coming in can't do one pull-up or twenty-five push-ups, run two miles in under 17 minutes, shoot a real pistol qual course and don't get me started on their defensive tactics and combative hand-cuffing abilities ... but we still pass 'em through, because we still can't get enough people in the pipeline to replace the guys who are retiring in droves these days.
We had a PT element, and it wasn't easy. We just didn't have the "Drop & give me 50 pushups" nonsense.
I don't dispute what you say about the changing nature of the recruits entering the field today, but I don't think a bootcamp's going to accomplish much there.
The necessary skills to perform the job can be transmitted without a militaristic approach.
That's more on the quality of the program & the instructors than a faux bootcamp mindset.
Denis
I don't dispute what you say about the changing nature of the recruits entering the field today, but I don't think a bootcamp's going to accomplish much there.
The necessary skills to perform the job can be transmitted without a militaristic approach.
That's more on the quality of the program & the instructors than a faux bootcamp mindset.
Denis
I started my academy at the same time...well, late 79...and attended a "Low Stress" academy. Granted this was in Northern California as opposed to Southern California, but it was the cutting edge model back then...you could tell the Staff had a hard time reining themselves in at times. No pushups for discipline, but everyone was in better shape at the end than at the beginning. The measure was completing the obstacle course in a reduced time from that needed to qualify for entry
It was a joint Police and Sheriff academy for the two largest departments in the region and was housed on the grounds of the California Highway Patrol Academy (CHP) While the CHP recruits were subject to very "boot camp" attention, part of that was because the State used their academy to vet trainees...they regularly loss 50% of each class. Our class was started at 43 and we graduated 38...one dropped out because he was involved in a shooting during his 2 week ride-along break...an additional 4 didn't make it through their first year probation period (they were the very Gung-ho guys in the academy).
We had a pretty low key class, because almost half the class had previously been reserve deputies and cued in the rest of us to the mind games the staff were going to use...plus we were all being paid full salaries (more than I'd been making at AT&T)
Something similar to my '82 class.
Most of us had already been working for some sort of LE for up to 2 years before getting a slot at the Academy, and we were all on salary at our home PDs. That's changed now- "cadets" can buy their way into the Academy, and the state changed its requirements some years back to mandate Academy graduation, either self-sponsored or PD-sponsored, before they can hit the road with a gun.
In my case, I'd done 4 years USAF Security Police, a year college campus police, a year as a reserve, two years as a special deputy for the Salt Lake County SO, and over 18 months with my sponsoring PD.
Plus college during all that, majoring in Police Science. I had as much background in law as the legal Academy instructor did, which helped.
I think we had two washouts in our class from at least a dozen departments up & down the state, and those were PT related.
Denis
Most of us had already been working for some sort of LE for up to 2 years before getting a slot at the Academy, and we were all on salary at our home PDs. That's changed now- "cadets" can buy their way into the Academy, and the state changed its requirements some years back to mandate Academy graduation, either self-sponsored or PD-sponsored, before they can hit the road with a gun.
In my case, I'd done 4 years USAF Security Police, a year college campus police, a year as a reserve, two years as a special deputy for the Salt Lake County SO, and over 18 months with my sponsoring PD.
Plus college during all that, majoring in Police Science. I had as much background in law as the legal Academy instructor did, which helped.
I think we had two washouts in our class from at least a dozen departments up & down the state, and those were PT related.
Denis
I was hired by the S.O. before attending the academy. Sworn in on Friday, started on Sunday night...3 month live-in academy; went home Friday evening until Sunday evening.
The SO requirement was HS/GED, everyone had at least a couple of years of college. PD required a BA/BS degree.
Got my degree while working in Custody. Our contract paid 5% for an AA, 5% for a BA, 5% for Intermediate POST Cert, and 5% for Advanced POST Cert...20% of salary is pretty much a no-brainer.
We lost 2 for academics, 2 for firearms qualification and 1 withdrawal
The SO requirement was HS/GED, everyone had at least a couple of years of college. PD required a BA/BS degree.
Got my degree while working in Custody. Our contract paid 5% for an AA, 5% for a BA, 5% for Intermediate POST Cert, and 5% for Advanced POST Cert...20% of salary is pretty much a no-brainer.
We lost 2 for academics, 2 for firearms qualification and 1 withdrawal
Choctaw
Member
We've all worked with Roscoe Rules at one time or another. lol
blue32
Member
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Wow you guys are old. I went through in 08 and the only recurring memory I have was driving back to the hotel every Sunday night wishing I could just be finished. EVOC and firearms were ok. Academics was a sleeper. I was so relieved to find out, that upon starting FTO, that I still didn't know anything.
That is definitely out of the ordinary.
We moved our trainees around every month so that they never got too comfortable with any one FTO...some trainees were very good at learning to play their training officers. Two training officers had to sign off on each recruit before they were considered qualified to work by themselves
Out program was 4 phases with 2 months in the first phase to introduce a recruit to how things worked. We got worried if a trainee wasn't ready to ride by themselves within 6 months...our department fielded mostly one-person units.
When I joined, the department had just over 300 sworn officers. When I retired we were over 1200
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Our FTO program was three phases of one month each.
Switched each month, so one trainee would have to go through three FTOs, with evals both periodic & final, before he or she would be considered for solo.
The only two-person cars we had were either trainee or reserve partners.
Our FTO program was the first officially POST sanctioned one in the state, and I was one of the first 8 certified as an FTO by the state.
I think we had a good training setup.
Denis
Switched each month, so one trainee would have to go through three FTOs, with evals both periodic & final, before he or she would be considered for solo.
The only two-person cars we had were either trainee or reserve partners.
Our FTO program was the first officially POST sanctioned one in the state, and I was one of the first 8 certified as an FTO by the state.
I think we had a good training setup.
Denis
MedWheeler
Member
DPris writes:
Ours was similar, with the first FTO being your "primary." You rode four weeks with him, and then four weeks with each of two more.
After that third four-week period, you returned to your primary FTO for a two-week final evaluation (during which he was not to train, but only to evaluate.)
Ours was similar, with the first FTO being your "primary." You rode four weeks with him, and then four weeks with each of two more.
After that third four-week period, you returned to your primary FTO for a two-week final evaluation (during which he was not to train, but only to evaluate.)
loose noose
Member
Incidentally when my training officer went on vacation for a week or two, I would get a different TO, or when he had different days off, I would get a different TO, however I basically had the same TO throughout my first 6 months probation. (I should have clarified that) Due to the high crime rate in the city, we had all two man units, after the 6 month probation, we generally rode with another officer with about the same experience or a bit more experience, depending on the area of the city we were working. Nothing at the time was consistent. BTW we had slightly over 5000 officers. Now you know the rest of the story.
As far as street smarts go, I doubt we will ever agree where we acquire them, you might say they just come naturally, however I do believe, you become somewhat hardened to the facts of life, especially after going thru USMC boot camp and then, afterward Vietnam, coming from a small "bedroom community" in the Midwest, I do believe is when I first was able to relate to what "street smarts" was all about. Perhaps you can give me a definition of what "street smarts" is according to, who ever came up with the term
As far as street smarts go, I doubt we will ever agree where we acquire them, you might say they just come naturally, however I do believe, you become somewhat hardened to the facts of life, especially after going thru USMC boot camp and then, afterward Vietnam, coming from a small "bedroom community" in the Midwest, I do believe is when I first was able to relate to what "street smarts" was all about. Perhaps you can give me a definition of what "street smarts" is according to, who ever came up with the term
My commander brought this up last night!
He said I don't care how much college or what not you have, if you don't have common sense/good judgement then you wont make a good officer. He said he would hire someone who shows good judgment than military or college any day. I am very pro military and think that people should hire more vets but one thing I ran into a lot working in the private security field and especially metro housing was some of the vets who didn't carry a gun, go to war, etc. thought they knew everything and were the most bad ass person in the world because that's what the military taught them. They caused more problems with the apartment residents, had more issues for discipline and back talked more than someone who wasn't military. I worked for an armored truck service for a lot of years and the boss would always brag how he hired this guy cause he was a Marine, Navy, etc. We would find out the guy was a mechanic or what not but according to him he was a firearms expert, could beat everyone up, one of the most rudest people I ever met and couldn't take direction very well. If you told him this was the way to do something his response was well that's not how we did it in the military! I only noticed it with the younger (under 40) crew. Again, i have no issue with Military but sometimes its not the sole basis to tell me I don't deserve a job when I worked just as hard to go through the academy. I applied for a federal position in private security and was told flat out they would take a military guy over me cause of smarts and discipline. I brought a lot of security, college in CRMJ, experience working in such facilities but they would choose a guy with no experience over me.
As far as man bun wearing millennial goes-We have a kid in the academy now with his bleach blonde hair that's all spiffed up, bright red, huge framed glasses, has a little muscle so thinks he's a bad ass. Another guy who has the 1970's sideburns and slicked hair, leather coat, asks some of the dumbest questions trying to be funny. We have one military guy and he thinks he's gods gift to PT. He makes fun of those who cant pass the final PT test and we don't graduate until June. Rarely anyone will sponsor you anymore in Ohio so its all college type academies and I actually think its better this way. If I'm paying $6k. why am I being treated like **** doing pushups in the mud, rain and snow because the range S/O couldn't keep their stuff straight? Why am I told if I miss 2min of class I have to makeup 30min. During PT we are told we cannot have conversations with one another. This stuff doesn't make everyone the same or help us it actually makes a lot of people not want to come to class!
lemaymiami
Member
With all the various different academies and FTO setups - here's one of my favorite true stories (only in Miami...). We had a sharp young officer on my 100 man department who thought that things were a bit slow with us... so he jumped ship at the almost two year mark for city of Miami - that had a serious officer shortage at the time (understatement)... This was in the "cocaine cowboy" era - early eighties when things were so bad with that city that they literally had rookies training rookies and all kinds of other problems as well (a few of the young'uns coming out of the academy back then actually had close relatives in the bad guy business that were not discovered during the background process). This was just one indicator that things might not be going very smoothly downtown...
Our young officer was very squared away but still new enough to be looking for trouble every day on the job - and since he already had almost two years experience he very quickly became an FTO (only in Miami..). After a few months he was assigned a brand new academy candidate on his first one day riding assignment when they hit the street on day shift. That day with his unarmed rookie aboard he did a traffic stop on a full sized SUV that had dark tinted windows... With the patrol car right behind the SUV and just stopped.. his first indication of trouble was when the rear windshield of the SUV simply exploded and he came under direct fire from a BG with an AR rifle. With no time to react the patrol car's windshield blew apart and the two officers were caught flat footed inside the vehicle... By some miracle neither were hit (although the FTO did lose a piece of an ear..). They bailed out of the car and went to cover as the subject car fled the scene...
I never heard one way or the other about the trainee so I don't know if his first experience on the street was his last... but I did hear that our "sharp young officer" got himself a job that was off of the street... A good solid FTO program for every agency is just too important to be casual about. Some of the terrible troubles that a big department can find itself in might just be traced to a poor training process and lack of supervision for beginning officers. I've been on both ends of that situation and hope the "bad old days" are well behind us...
Our young officer was very squared away but still new enough to be looking for trouble every day on the job - and since he already had almost two years experience he very quickly became an FTO (only in Miami..). After a few months he was assigned a brand new academy candidate on his first one day riding assignment when they hit the street on day shift. That day with his unarmed rookie aboard he did a traffic stop on a full sized SUV that had dark tinted windows... With the patrol car right behind the SUV and just stopped.. his first indication of trouble was when the rear windshield of the SUV simply exploded and he came under direct fire from a BG with an AR rifle. With no time to react the patrol car's windshield blew apart and the two officers were caught flat footed inside the vehicle... By some miracle neither were hit (although the FTO did lose a piece of an ear..). They bailed out of the car and went to cover as the subject car fled the scene...
I never heard one way or the other about the trainee so I don't know if his first experience on the street was his last... but I did hear that our "sharp young officer" got himself a job that was off of the street... A good solid FTO program for every agency is just too important to be casual about. Some of the terrible troubles that a big department can find itself in might just be traced to a poor training process and lack of supervision for beginning officers. I've been on both ends of that situation and hope the "bad old days" are well behind us...
Wow, this is an excellent topic, I started my 22 year career with a 100 man Police dept in 1985. I went to the state run Law Enforcement Academy for 12 weeks after working on the PD for about 13 months. The favorite menmory of our academy was being the first one on the skid pad of our group. I was in the zone and had a great time, even my ride along instructor was whooping it up as we were skidding sideways at 50 plus mph. Damn that was fun, driving across the skid pad waiting for the instructor to pull the lever and losing control of the steer axle for a bit. I made it through the academy all 12 weeks mostly isolated from family and friends. I did in fact receive the then new and now covented 360 award for my time on the skid pad, damn that was fun. I am now retired from the same Police Department that I started with. I miss some of my peers but none of the politics. I was blessed, I left the PD on a very positive note and I stop in from time to time and visit. A career in Law Enforcement is a very rewarding or it can be a bitter experience, I believe it is one of the best if not the best professions avalaible, but, you have to have a thick skin to put up with some of the crap out there. When I retired from my PD in 2007 there were about 150 Officers working. Just my thoughts from the Big Sky Country, Montana.
Old Dog
Member
My thinking was always that if you didn't look forward to going to work every day, and you didn't enjoy the job, you simply weren't suited for it ... When I was working the street, I was excited to go to work every day (even working days). The bitter guys, the whiners and the complainers, are the worst cops. But yeah, the politics have only gotten worse.
loose noose
Member
Old Dog, that is exactly what I was thinking, like I indicated in one of my prior replies, I also looked forward to going to work back then, however the politics got to the point where it appeared futile at best. I too believed it was one of the best professions a young man/woman could pursue, now in this day and age I'm not so sure, I do know I wouldn't want to put up with all the PC.
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