Police chief squashes idea that gun owners might fight terrorists [Britain]

Status
Not open for further replies.
You say nonsense; how many in Dallas per one hundred thousand carry? I will counter with nonsense; it's about saturation. Despite the freedom to do so in some states only a small percentage of people actually do. The carrying of rifles - the most viable and obvious counter to such killers - is discouraged.

And yet when we see those people open carrying rifles we quickly chastise them as being detrimental to our cause.

My biggest fear is not the terrorist who shows up on Main Street with an AK47, but the suicide bomber. Or imagine IEDs on our streets. A pocket pistol wouldn't be of any use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RPZ
I can't answer that with 100% certainty. A lot of the techniques used aren't made public for obvious reason.

When you have time, take a look what is being done at Disney. State of the art.
So then I will continue to believe that RPZ was pretty much on the money with his comment. I see no proof provided that he was wrong so the condescension toward his comment seems unwarranted IMO.

Or in the interests of keeping the thread on track, please explain why this statement is incorrect?

Checkpoints for baggage and body searches are futile. Jihadi simply targets the crowd waiting

Maybe not futile but it certainly sets up a soft target "somewhere" where people are vulnerable. You imply there are other methods to search individuals...and then you imply the methods are 'secret?' I'd be interested in knowing the methods. If Disney has published it, why can you provide the link? It's not my job to Google to prove your claims.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RPZ
Nope. Not rehashing it. Read the thread, it's all there. This thread is past its useful lifecycle as far as I'm concerned.

No offense, but I don't have time for people who don't read or fact check or who deny reality, and then come at me with hearsay, propaganda, and garbage. Not you per se, but they are in this thread.
The "facts" should be provided....I'm not a fan of Googling for things that dont exist, hence the common Internet protocol is to provide the sources for your comments.
(And I did read the entire thread)

I am in agreement with many of your comments but your manner of delivery does not provide deeper support.
 
So then I will continue to believe that RPZ was pretty much on the money with his comment. I see no proof provided that he was wrong so the condescension toward his comment seems unwarranted IMO.

Or in the interests of keeping the thread on track, please explain why this statement is incorrect?

OC Trainer won't provide proof of anything because he's not in a position to do so. I've read his dozens of posts throughout this thread, and a couple of things are fairly clear through the deliberate fog of his contributions. He has an agenda but is either unwilling to share that (likely) or unable to clarify it (unlikely, as he's plainly adept in the use of our shared language). He routinely uses belittling comments to oppress in preference to informative comments to prove anything. And he really has no valid argument to present against trained private citizens using firearms in their own defence or the defence of others, falling back repeatedly on an obviously flawed and shallow paper from the FBI as though we should all fall on bended knee honouring his wisdom in just knowing about that paper. Oh, and Google, he's really proud of knowing that Google is useful.

The fact is that 90% and more of human beings will react poorly in emergency situations of whatever kind. If there were some sort of test which could be implemented in ways which were acceptable to the populace and yielded accurate results, regarding which of us is likeliest to respond intelligently and effectively when confronted with high stress, dangerous situations, that might provide adequate criteria upon which to base licensing for firearms carry in places like the UK (or Canada for that matter) where generally armed populations are not considered acceptable. Without such a test being available things become somewhat more complicated, and indeed the official statement from the London police which forms the basis for this discussion has at least some merit within that less than ideal context.

I would suggest mandatory training and stress testing for anyone wishing to acquire a weapon for personal protection. Considerable resources would be required, including staffing of training centres with not only experienced firearm use professionals (police, ex-military, range officers, competitive shooters) but also psychologists and civilian oversight watchdogs. Funding might be difficult, but I believe such a program may well supplant the need for much police agency funding, so a simple transfer of funding from a nanny state police system to such a program would result in modest cost increases.

Plainly terrorists aren't going away. They're encouraged, every time there's a week of news chatter about even the most modest successes in murder and mayhem. Police agencies plainly can not deal with the initial strikes in all but rare cases - primarily those involving direct first attacks on police themselves - typically taking so long to arrive at the scenes that a handful of civilians die before they even arrive, never mind putting down the attackers. That mall attack in Africa is just a glaringly awful example of police agency (not individual police personnel) and military incompetence.

Carrying pepper spray may well be a great help in such attacks, but as such sprays are illegal to carry for self defence in many countries and regions (in Canada, for example) there's no argument to be made there which is much different from carrying a firearm. We are not permitted batons nor knives nor anything else for self defence here. I'd really appreciate a proper national debate on the subject, but in our political climate and considering the media's apparently insatiable appetite for anti-gun nonsense that seems a long way off if not impossible. Official agencies, especially police, want all the power for themselves. They are becoming more paranoid by the year regarding their own positions and safety, and that's understandable, considering that their very existence is threatened by social and political changes. Just like income tax, police were thought initially to be a temporary measure. And they ought to have been such. But power is a funny thing, people like it once they have it. And how can police enhance their power better than by eliminating non-police citizens' rights to protect themselves?
 
"..... Our message to the public is a simple one: to run, to hide and to tell.”

That is where the global elites want us in this country too.

I will never give mine up.

If I see a real possibility of a ban of some sort
I will give up a few and bury the rest in PVC pipe.
 
OC Trainer won't provide proof of anything because he's not in a position to do so. I've read his dozens of posts throughout this thread, and a couple of things are fairly clear through the deliberate fog of his contributions. He has an agenda but is either unwilling to share that (likely) or unable to clarify it (unlikely, as he's plainly adept in the use of our shared language). He routinely uses belittling comments to oppress in preference to informative comments to prove anything. And he really has no valid argument to present against trained private citizens using firearms in their own defence or the defence of others, falling back repeatedly on an obviously flawed and shallow paper from the FBI as though we should all fall on bended knee honouring his wisdom in just knowing about that paper. Oh, and Google, he's really proud of knowing that Google is useful.

The fact is that 90% and more of human beings will react poorly in emergency situations of whatever kind. If there were some sort of test which could be implemented in ways which were acceptable to the populace and yielded accurate results, regarding which of us is likeliest to respond intelligently and effectively when confronted with high stress, dangerous situations, that might provide adequate criteria upon which to base licensing for firearms carry in places like the UK (or Canada for that matter) where generally armed populations are not considered acceptable. Without such a test being available things become somewhat more complicated, and indeed the official statement from the London police which forms the basis for this discussion has at least some merit within that less than ideal context.

I would suggest mandatory training and stress testing for anyone wishing to acquire a weapon for personal protection. Considerable resources would be required, including staffing of training centres with not only experienced firearm use professionals (police, ex-military, range officers, competitive shooters) but also psychologists and civilian oversight watchdogs. Funding might be difficult, but I believe such a program may well supplant the need for much police agency funding, so a simple transfer of funding from a nanny state police system to such a program would result in modest cost increases.

Plainly terrorists aren't going away. They're encouraged, every time there's a week of news chatter about even the most modest successes in murder and mayhem. Police agencies plainly can not deal with the initial strikes in all but rare cases - primarily those involving direct first attacks on police themselves - typically taking so long to arrive at the scenes that a handful of civilians die before they even arrive, never mind putting down the attackers. That mall attack in Africa is just a glaringly awful example of police agency (not individual police personnel) and military incompetence.

Carrying pepper spray may well be a great help in such attacks, but as such sprays are illegal to carry for self defence in many countries and regions (in Canada, for example) there's no argument to be made there which is much different from carrying a firearm. We are not permitted batons nor knives nor anything else for self defence here. I'd really appreciate a proper national debate on the subject, but in our political climate and considering the media's apparently insatiable appetite for anti-gun nonsense that seems a long way off if not impossible. Official agencies, especially police, want all the power for themselves. They are becoming more paranoid by the year regarding their own positions and safety, and that's understandable, considering that their very existence is threatened by social and political changes. Just like income tax, police were thought initially to be a temporary measure. And they ought to have been such. But power is a funny thing, people like it once they have it. And how can police enhance their power better than by eliminating non-police citizens' rights to protect themselves?

I like how you pop up AFTER I say I'm done with the thread.
Where were you before? Anyway, I'm on the road right now, but as soon as I get in front of a real keyboard I'll deal with you.

Better hope the thread gets closed before then...
 
I like how you pop up AFTER I say I'm done with the thread.
Where were you before? Anyway, I'm on the road right now, but as soon as I get in front of a real keyboard I'll deal with you.

Better hope the thread gets closed before then...
Someone a little earlier mentioned how distasteful it seemed that you claim ownership of this discussion. Here's more proof of this faulty attitude from you, even including a threat.

OC, I don't owe you a thing. I had no obligation to engage with you. I chose not to engage with you, primarily because you're obviously a belligerent fool. It's not that your arguments have no merit, it's that you have no arguments. It's all chest puffing and attitude. Come at me when you actually have something useful to offer. I spelled out a potential program. What are you offering besides duck and cover?
 
I like how you pop up AFTER I say I'm done with the thread.
You're obviously NOT "done with this thread", since you're still whining and now making IMPOTENT threats.

Where were you before? Anyway, I'm on the road right now, but as soon as I get in front of a real keyboard I'll deal with you.
"Deal with him", HOW??? You sound like Hopkinson.

Better hope the thread gets closed before then...
Or WHAT??? Sounds like an IMPOTENT threat to me.
 
Take it easy, we shouldn't be making medical diagnoses, we barely know the guy. For all we know he has huge hands and is a major player. Anyway, I'm not taking his threat seriously. He hasn't had anything useful to say so far, why should that change?
 
Take it easy, we shouldn't be making medical diagnoses, we barely know the guy. For all we know he has huge hands and is a major player. Anyway, I'm not taking his threat seriously. He hasn't had anything useful to say so far, why should that change?
My response to IMPOTENT threats is always:



No bully ever stopped being a bully because he got what he wanted BY being a bully.
 
Well he did threaten to go to a real keyboard to carry out his... whatever it is he intends to carry out. Personally I rarely resort to putting down my phone and using a real keyboard for forum responses. It just isn't worth dedicating that much effort, actually leaving my favourite browser (Dolphin) and going to the PC. Of course that means I have to check for thumb typos, much more common on the phone with my big thumbs. Always hitting N instead of Space... I rather doubt this joker has anything sufficiently meaningful to offer which would inspire that leap from me. But it is a bit threatening. Maybe he has some wicked keyboard macros on the big computer? Maybe he's gonna smack down, finally, with some real content.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top