Police seizure of firearm in the absence of a crime

Status
Not open for further replies.

NDanforth

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
24
3 years ago my wife and I moved from NM to AZ for my wifes job. I did not

get a job as quickly as I would have liked. We fell behind on the payments

on my truck and it was repossessed. The towing company found a firearm

that I had in the truck and turned it over to the PD. When I went to pick my truck

back up the tow company gave me a card with a case number on it. I was

told just go down to their evidence storage and show them this and pick up

your fiream.


When I went to the evidence building I was treated with

hostility even after I tried to explain that this weapon was in no way tied to

a crime and it was only a "safe keeping" measure. I was given the name of

an officer that had been assigned to the "case". When I called her she

explained that because I was not the registered owner of the firearm that

she could not turn it over to me. I explained that it was a private party sale

and neither AZ or NM requires firearm registration. The firearm was in a

vehicle registered and insured in my name, the it had not been reported

stolen, I provided Serial number, description of the firearm and even what

brand ammunition was in the magazine. She told me she needed some kind

of actual proof. So I realized that gunsmith's keep records on firearms they

work and I had some work done on it in NM. I called her when the gunsmith

sent me the paperwork and was supposed to set up a meeting. We went a

month or more playing phone tag to set up a time to meet. Around this time

we found out that my wife's pregnancy was high risk and that our baby had

been diagnosed with spina bifida, suffice to say dealing with the PD became

the last thing on my mind.



Flash forward a couple years and my daughter

has made it through several surgeries and life is starting to return to

normal. Going through some boxes the other day I came across the

paperwork and case # and my annoyance with the PD's, for all intents and

purposes, theft of my property came rushing back. I called the PD to check

up on it and did find that they have not sold or destroyed it yet. But when I

talked to the officer in charge of the case she had the same ol attitude and

said she doesn't know what she can do and that she'll have to look into it. I

a feeling she is just going to brush it aside again. What recourse do I have,

where should I go from here? Sorry for the long rant guys but I am just so

annoyed and feel a bit helpless.
 
If it were me, I'd go down to the PD in person with the paperwork and any original accessories or paperwork you might have for the gun and ask for it in person. It doesn't seem like much would get accomplished over the phone.

You may also come out ahead by hiring a lawyer if you have issues getting it back.
 
Sorry to hear about your loss, and the hand life dealt you with your daughter.

I would go down in person and try the polite route first, move up the food chain to the chief if you have to. If there is an obstacle to them returning your property they at least need to explain what that is and how it can be satisfied. It certainly isn't something they should be playing silly games with.

Unless it's a pretty valuable handgun, probably not going to come out ahead hiring a lawyer as the fee will probably be in excess of the gun's replacement value.
 
A lot of times people will tell you things they would never put in writing. I would do as leftyz suggested and if that didn’t result in getting my gun back, I would send the police office a letter detailing the situation and requesting they make the pistol available for you to pick up within 10 days of the date of the letter. Send the letter to the officer that you have already talked to and CC the chief / caption. If you have a friend that’s an attorney, ask him if you can CC him/her on the letter at no cost (it just looks like you’re ready to drop the hammer when they see So and So, Esquire copied on the letter).

Good Luck!
 
Have a lawyer file for a Writ of Mandamus with the local court which will be a court order to the police department to return the firearm to you. The judge can also order the municipality where the police department is located in pay your legal expenses. It will probably cost a couple hundred $$$ up front.
 
Thanks guys,

I actually got a call back a half hour ago. I will be meeting her on Tuesday on my lunch hour. She asked for my vitals and questioned if I was a felon or domestic abuser, I'm guessing she's doing a background, not going to hold my breath but maybe just maybe I'll be bringing home my lost love on tuesday. If not I will go ahead with the written notices and then the writ of mandamus, thanks for that Navy.
 
I always do a little bill of sale that has the seller and buyer names, a witness, and the serial numbers and date. Nothing anyone should have a problem with. I print two off as well, one for the buyer and one for the seller, so I'll do this whichever role I play.

What you can do now, I think, is to call a lawyer and get some advice. They'll do it for free over the phone, most of them, but make sure you call around and talk to a few. Then call the chief or whatever and explain the situation. Well, call and get an appointment and go down there with all your stuff and then explain it. Cops on phones, unless they want something from you, just want to hurry up and get you off the phone. Make an appointment. Usually, if something hasn't been claimed and it hasn't been reported stolen or whatever, then "finders keepers" applies --I think-- since you were the last one with it, it goes to you if you claim it. At least that is how I think that works.

You could always get a lawyer, but I'd try meeting this Joe Friday wannabe's boss first. Likely she can't find it in clear print in her manual as exactly how to go about giving it back to you, so she just won't. There are a lot of people who can't think for themselves, and that job fosters this along with bad attitudes. Yeah, try going to the boss and if that doesn't turn out well, make sure you let them know you'll have to get a lawyer and that this isn't the end of it. To save the hassle, they then might be "able" to give you back your property. But before actually going to the lawyer, you should try talking to the mayor. You'd be surprised at the kind of response you can get from some mayors.

As an example, I caught a metermaid yapping on the phone while doing an illegal uturn and parking in the middle of the street in order to write a ticket for someone that had quickly ran in the store for a minute --I watched the whole thing and so did she, and when he ran in, she pounced, but she had to break a few laws, moving and non-moving violations, in order to get there. It kind of fired me up, what she was doing, as I saw it all. I filmed it all and turned it over to the mayor's office expecting nothing to happen. Well, I got an email and a phone call from Seattle's mayor saying she had been reassigned, reprimanded, and that they now have a training class about using phones and obeying the laws they enforce, especially while on duty. Didn't expect that.

Also, don't you love how when they don't know how to do a part of their job that they will just make stuff up rather than go look it up in a book? But if you can't think for yourself, finding a book and the resulting answer can be quite difficult.

I've heard of a guy turing in his CCW at a court house for jury duty. He turned it in fine. But when he went to get it back, the new cop on duty didn't know "how to give back firearms to civilians" and so he just decided to keep it. How, then, should it be given back you might ask? Well, he didn't know the answer to that one and couldn't help. In essence, he said that he couldn't give it back because he "didn't know how". So in his mind, the proper response from Joe Public should be, "Okay, thanks anyway!"

Get for real. These people don't know how to do their job, obviously, and when many cops don't know or can't figure out a situation, they will oft than not make stuff up. Generally in a fashion that has them in power telling you what you can and can't do. Rarely will they be bothered to contact someone above them that may have the appropriate response.

Don't settle for this, don't let them run over you, don't let them steal you property. They work for you, remember that.

Finally, if all this doesn't work, get an appointment with a lawyer. Good luck, and don't take this laying down. Make a big deal out of it.
 
This has happened often in PA where a firearm (handgun) was run through PA's "data base" and was found to have "no record". The police would seize the firearm, and make the person claiming ownership, prove ownership.

This was 100% illegal, since PA's "data base" is NOT one of ownership, nor would a firearm purchased outside of PA be in the "data base" since there is no mandatory registration in PA. But, many LEO's were illegaly using the "data base" as on eof ownership!!

Many person got the run around the same as you, often having to get a lawyer involved before the firearm would be returned.
 
In a similar situation, I was told that you need to go to court, file a motion to return property, and have a judge order them to return your firearm. I was able to resolve everythign and get my property back without the judge, but barely. I got the most help by walking around the building and a helpful sherrif's deputy walked me through everything.

You should start with your County Sherrif's office. They are the first step up the ladder when dealing with out of control local police, then the FBI if your rights are being violated under the color of law.
 
There should be any need for a judge or a lawyer. What if they seize your Ipod, laptop, cellphone, etc. Now they claim, "prove its yours and we'll reluctanly give it back"?????
 
Thanks again for all the replies here guys. I go in on Tuesday and I will let you know what happens from there.
 
There should be any need for a judge or a lawyer. What if they seize your Ipod, laptop, cellphone, etc. Now they claim, "prove its yours and we'll reluctanly give it back"?????

It can be the same for any property. A Police Department can do anything that they want to you, right or wrong, and all you can do is go to a judge and hope that he sides with you.
 
It can be the same for any property. A Police Department can do anything that they want to you, right or wrong, and all you can do is go to a judge and hope that he sides with you.
yep .... pretty much. Gawd forbid they find a marijuana seed in your house (Dealer!), they'll seize it as "drug profits".
 
Which police department in AZ are you dealing with? I've had a lot of contact with LEOs working for several different departments around the Phoenix area, and I'm happy to say I've never seen or heard of anything near this level of incompetence.

When I called her she explained that because I was not the registered owner of the firearm that she could not turn it over to me.
This in particular is mind-boggling. Like you said, AZ doesn't even have a firearm registration. There is nothing - even if you want to register your firearms, you can't. I mean, realistically, I can see a newer officer being hesitant to return the firearm out of fear of screwing up, but it sounds like you were being given the run-around intentionally. Inexcusable.
 
Elm Creek Smith,

I go to meet her on my lunch hour today, I will update everyone when I get back.

Thanks Orion.

Bobson,

I'd prefer not to share the specific department but I can tell you it's a much bluer area of the state than Maricopa County...

Her mentioning the registration thing is definitely odd. She did make mention when this first happened that there is someone elses name attached to the firearm. I know that it wasn't ever reported stolen, or that it was ever tied to a crime because I ran the serial number through NCIC myself when I first bought the gun in NM. I know the gun has had a several owners and I'm wondering if the original owner may have been in a state with registration...California perhaps. Well anyhow, I will be at the PD in 4 hours and I will let you all know the disposition.
 
NDanforth said:
I know that it wasn't ever reported stolen, or that it was ever tied to a crime because I ran the serial number through NCIC myself when I first bought the gun in NM.

How were you able to run it through NCIC?
 
Umm, yeah, something is definitely "off" here, lived in this state my whole life, and there is no such thing as registration here, never has been in 99 years of statehood, to the best of my knowledge. Do let us know what's up.
Edit to say, I am very happy to hear of your daughters recovery, and if you can get AZ POST certified, we can use some more good cops out here.
 
Last edited:
Armoredman,

Thanks about my daughter. We will continue to have a lot of stuff to deal with but she has come a long way and the biggest hurdles are past us now. :)

As far as becoming AZ POST certified...in hindsight I should have stayed in NM another 9 months. AZ will do lateral transfers if you have 3 years certified in another state, I only had just over 2 years. Now I'd have to go through the Academy again, and well that's no fun ;) And the hiring for LEOs in Pima county seems spotty. My wife worked in communications in NM and applied for a Dispatch position here in AZ, it was a substantial salary increase for her so we took it. I had planned on joining the Border Patrol, in fact I passed everything but the post location they offered was not going to work, especially after uprooting everything already for my wifes job. I work private security now and am making a decent bit more than I did as an officer in NM...although I can't say I don't miss it some of the time...

Met with the Detective in charge of my case. She blatantly told me that she hates releasing firearms and that she was going to have to do a BATFE check and then see if she was comfortable with releasing it. She didn't seem happy with the only paperwork I had (gunsmith record). She brought up the time frame and how it was hinky that over 2 years later I'm trying again, and then told me she didn't care what the story was behind the time lapse when I offered to explain. Why use that against me but not accept an explanation? She made some mention about the truck being repossessed in a manner that alluded to me being more suspect because of that. She kept bringing up about checking into things until she felt comfortable releasing it, to which I as politely as possible told her this isn't about your comfort and how you feel it's about facts. The weapon was in a vehicle registered and insured by me, the weapon has no record of criminal involvment or theft, I am a legal possessor of firearms, what more did she need. She told me she would get back to me but gave no time frame and reiterated how it's not a priority for her.

I'm not going to wait around and am talking to an attorney friend tomorrow. He currently does workman's compensation work but was a criminal defense attorney in his early days. I'm sure he can help me file for a court order so a judge can make sure it becomes a "priority" for her.

I'll keep you guys posted.
 
Very sorry to hear that, but it’s good to hear you remained professional; I’m sure that took a ton of self control.

Someone treating me that way would just strengthen my resolve.
 
I'm gonna follow this one and see how it ends. Wishing the best for you and your family. Very sorry to hear about your daughter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top