Police seizure of firearm in the absence of a crime

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She blatantly told me that she hates releasing firearms and that she was going to have to do a BATFE check and then see if she was comfortable with releasing it.
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Be sure she said "BATFE check," and if possible have a witness with you.

Police departments can do background checks as a matter of policy, although it is not required by law in Arizona. However they can't do a so-called BATF/E check because that agency doesn't do background checks. She is thinking of the NICS background checks made by gun dealers, which is through the FBI, and can only be used by gun dealers when transfering a firearm to an unlicensed person (meaning a retail customer that doesn't have a FFL). Police departments are prohibited by law from using the system.

I was helping another person in somewhat the same situation you are in, and when the officer started handing me the line I demanded a supervisor be called. Then I ran him into the ground, with a strong hint that a lawsuit would be forthcoming. My friend's rifle was returned the next day.
 
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OldFluff,

The BATFE check is on the weapon, not on me. Not sure if that matters. I've never heard of that being done, and thought the buck stopped at NCIC checks.
 
This is STILL a law-and-order country. Please continue to let us know how this issue progresses. Glad things are improving for your daughter.
 
Well, her saying that she did not care about what caused the time lapse in your pursuing getting your gun back just shows what kind of person she really is, not just unprofessional. I know personally, the helpless feeling of watching your child go through serious medical issues and not being able to do anything about it, wishing the whole time you could take it from them. But kids are amazing in how well they cope and adapt. I hope things continue to improve for your daughter.

Sometime a little compassion and in this case, a little PROFESSIONALISM would go a long way. I hope you can get somewhere with the lawyer and get something done. Who knows if you are the only one this is happening to? Possible that your not. I will be following this.

P.S. Saying a prayer for your baby girl (they are always your babies no matter how old):)
 
Thanks for the support guys.

pwhfirefighter,

I'm sorry to hear that you have gone through having a child deal with serious medical issues. You are absolutely right about how they cope though. My daughter is such a happy little girl and although I sometimes see her frustrated with her disability/lack of mobility, she always finds a way to make things work. I think it hurts me more to see her struggle than it affects her. I'm not sure if anyone here is familiar with spina bifida but when she was born they weren't sure if she'd be able to walk. Well while she isn't doing it entirley on her own, with the help of some foot/ankle surgeries and good braces she started walking a month ago with the use of her walker! I'll tell you every time she picks up that walker and trucks around the house and driveway, I get a bit misty eyed.

After the meeting yesterday I asked my wife to pick up a copy of the report with the records department. I know it's easy, especially on an internet forum to say "There must be more to the story". Whenever I hear someone complain about an encounter with LE I always think that'd I'd sure like to hear the rest of the story. Well here is the narrative section of the report. As you can see it should be a simple process of running a triple I on me, check the gun with NCIC and then return my dang property. I meet with the attorney today though, and I'll be going from there. I'll keep you guys updated.

P.S. OldFluff, I'd sure like to hear more about the BATFE check though.
 
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NDanforth said:
OldFluff,

The BATFE check is on the weapon, not on me. Not sure if that matters. I've never heard of that being done, and thought the buck stopped at NCIC checks.
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What, checking the weapon?

They have had it TWO YEARS and haven't bothered to see if it was stolen or involved in a crime yet?

I wouldn't waste an more time on this waste of skin "public servant" ... time to go over her pointy little head.
 
She's definitely from waaay outa town - I grew up there, and never ever had any bad dealings with TPD over firearms. Too bad my buddy just retired from TPD, I'd ask him to check into it.
Find out who her Sergeant is, and start working up the chain of command.
 
I had said the same thing mgkdrgn, she claimed she had done the check but for some reason the result wasn't on file and she'd have to do it again. Nice huh...

Armoredman,
I'm quite taken aback by the whole thing too. My wife actually is in a non sworn position with TPD but that carries no weight...well I guess that's a good thing...nepotism and all...
 
This is moving faster then I can keep up, but for starters:

No one, including police departments, can check to see if a gun is stolen - through the BATF/E. This isn't part of they're job.

A law enforcement agency can request that they trace a particular firearm, which they usually will do; from the manufacturer or importer, to a distributor (if there was one), to a retailer, and finely the first buyer of record on a #4473 form. They have no way to know if the gun in question was stolen or not unless they are told it was.

The BATF/E does not make background checks.

The background checks that are done relative to a sale or transfer of a firearm by an FFL retailer to an individual are done by the FBI, not the BATF/E. Such background checks are often called "Brady checks."

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/nics

Police departments cannot make background checks through the NICS System.
Only FFL Dealers can do so, and then only when they are in the process of selling or otherwise transfering a firearm to a customer.

If the officer in question is saying that they have to either make a "Brady check" or have the BATF/E confirm that the gun isn't stolen, she has put the Tucson Police Department's head on a chopping block, and if her superiors back her up they are asking for a lawsuit!

Given time, I will be back with more.
 
TPD does do stolen gun checks, all the time. Any used firearm that goes into an FFL in the city limits goes in a 15 day hold, and a slip is forwarded to TPD to do a serial number check. Note, this isn't a waiting period, this is before the gun is put out for sale. I worked at two Tucson FFLs a few years ago. BUT, it takes 15 days, not two years, I would imagine that would have been done when the firearm was discovered.
 
I applaud your attitude in thisn much better ten mine would be.

We all are different. But i believe in principles, and financial issues and such aside, i would be more then willing to spend twice as much as the gun is worth on a lawyer.

Glad to hear your girl is progressing in a positive direction. My wife is 32 weeks pregnant with our first, a girl. And the tests they do resulted in a positive on the screening. Had my head detached for 3 weeks til they did a proper sono and found nothing. It did however put my wife as a high risk. And we go every two weeks to the hospital for a sono, were almost done and so far it looks like no spina bif. Thank god!


I will be watching this, i wanna see were it goes.
 
I'd call the Pima County Sherrifs office and report it stolen by TPD. But that's just me being impaitent with jack booted thugs. Offer her a few Seig heils for the return of your property.
 
A few years ago after you had bought it they should have had record of your purchase at the shop you bought it from. If you bought it from an individual I have no idea of the procedure you have to go through. My advice is to just keep at it, they'll eventually have to return it to you. You could hire a lawyer and more or less guarantee that you'll get it back but it will more than likely cost more than the gun is worth to do so.
 
Just a thought but have you considered contacting a local news station its your property and the police department refuses to return it in a timely manner. The right reporter can take this and youd be supprised how fast this would be resolved.
 
Kiln
A few years ago after you had bought it they should have had record of your purchase at the shop you bought it from. If you bought it from an individual I have no idea of the procedure you have to go through. My advice is to just keep at it, they'll eventually have to return it to you. You could hire a lawyer and more or less guarantee that you'll get it back but it will more than likely cost more than the gun is worth to do so.
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I asked my dealer if he could provide records of sales for guns that I have purchased. He sells thousands of guns a year. He said perhaps if I had the date of the purchase. Otherwise his computer system apparently is not set up to do searches.
A smaller dealer would not have this problem. I am not real good at saving my receipts and so when traveling I certainly could lose a gun to a PD since I can not "prove" it is mine. Last gun I purchased was from a fellow club member and he got it from a relative that was a police officer and did not need it anymore. I am at least the third person to own it and it has about $1,000 worth of gunsmithing on it.
 
I asked my dealer if he could provide records of sales for guns that I have purchased. He sells thousands of guns a year. He said perhaps if I had the date of the purchase. Otherwise his computer system apparently is not set up to do searches.
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He must not be running QuickBooks. I can pull up every invoice for every one of my customers going back to day 1.

As for the OP's situation:
- the PD can run the gun's serial number through NCIC to see if it's ever been reported stolen.
- the PD can request an ATF trace on the gun, but only if they can identify that it was used in a crime.
- the PD can transfer the gun to an FFL, who will run the OP through NICS.
 
Bubbles: He must not be running QuickBooks. I can pull up every invoice for every one of my customers going back to day 1
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If I make our club meeting tonight I will ask him what program he runs. Our club has official vendors that provide club enrollment forms and will take money for memberships. When someone buys a gun they often have no place to shoot it and the dealer directs them to join our club since it is easy to join and there is no cut off number for memberships as there is with the only other "public" club in our area that cuts off at about 300 and you need a reference to join. It is a win-win all away around.
 
@Gibson es, so glad to hear that your baby is going to be okay. The extra sonograms where icing on the cake for us...It was nice to see my baby girl that often before she was born...made me really feel like I knew her already when she finally came out:) Good luck and I hope her pregnancy goes smoothly.

@Kiln and Bartmill, I purchased the firearm private party from a friend, who had purchased it from someone else years back. I never did a bill of sale...something I will never go without again.

The media option is still there. I talked to my lawyer friend yesterday and he basically echoed some of what was said here. Write a letter to the Chief demanding release of the firearm within 10 days. He said to feel free to CC him in the letter. He said if that doesn't work go small claims. He did say he would help me write the complaint for small claims.

That's what I've got for now. Thanks again for the support guys.
 
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