Police survival battle

[Cavalier Knight]

Something I came across you be the judge.

One gun, no hands: the Marcus Young incident".
American Handgunner. Sept-Oct 2004.

• Situation: The criminal emptied a .38 into you, leaving your gun arm paralyzed and your other hand torn apart--and now, he's reaching for a machine gun.

• March 7, 2003. Sgt. Marcus Young is midway through an evening shift, working patrol for the Ukiah, California Police Department. He's a Navy vet, second-degree black belt in Shorinryu karate, 18 years on the force. With him is a 17-year-old police cadet named Julian Covella. A devoted husband and father, the 40-year-old sergeant serves as president of a local school board. His own young son is thinking about going the police cadet route and Marcus is particularly interested in how it's working out for Julian. Then comes the seemingly routine call: a shoplifter at the Wal-Mart Superstore. Young wheels the patrol car in that direction

This document contains graphic crime scene footage review the pdf document here The Battle

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

That story sounds totally bogus. Whoever did the reporting did a terrible job.

I don't understand why a firearm wasn't pulled on the guy when you drew the knife? And why would the cadet stand there and do nothing? It sounds like a bad piece of fiction.

EDIT: I don't understand why/how the BG gave the cadet enough time to move to the officer, draw his weapon, hand it to the officer, and let the officer shoot?

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

Damnation!

This is the kind of peace officer we need more of. A true guardian against the evil and vileness that roams far too freely in our streets and neighborhoods.

I wonder when and how his continuing medical bills are being handled? By all rights, his department/municipality should cover them, but sadly, that is not always the case.

We had two Dallas officers shot critically, and thanks to the new "workers compensation" plan drawn up by the idiotic, anti-police, anti-gun, anti-democracy mayor, Laura Miller, they lost their paychecks after something like two months.

Their recovery was expected to be almost a year--they were both damn near killed in this shootout. And even among the outrage of Dallas and north Texas citizens, the city of Dallas refused to budge. The two cops were close to losing homes, having bill collectors beat down their doors, etc. They both had wives and kids, and food was getting scarce.

And still the city of Dallas refused to budge. A local dairy who is VERY civic and law & order minded, quietly made arrangements to cover the two cops' lost income for the duration of their medical recovery time.

I sure hope Sgt Young doesn't have to go through all that.

As far as the part of the report that read: "From the time of those incidents through March 2003, he had suffered occasional nightmares in which he relived the incidents, or in which he fired his gun and it didn't work."

It's been years since I was in law enforcement and I STILL have nightmares in which I'm in a bad way and my gun either won't work, or the bullets have zero effect on the bad guys I'm returning fire on.

These nightmares go back to both my military days and my law enforcement days, and there is simply nothing more terrifying than those dreams.

I feel for Sgt Young. I hope to God Almight Himself that Mr. Young has a very understanding, loving and patient wife along with a strong Faith. That's the only way he's gonna be able to manage them because mine have never gone away. Nor have any of the other vets' I'm tight with.

Sgt Young--that's a true American hero in the purist sense of the word.

Jeff

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

That story sounds totally bogus. Whoever did the reporting did a terrible job.

I don't understand why a firearm wasn't pulled on the guy when you drew the knife? And why would the cadet stand there and do nothing? It sounds like a bad piece of fiction.

EDIT: I don't understand why/how the BG gave the cadet enough time to move to the officer, draw his weapon, hand it to the officer, and let the officer shoot?

Hey Hero, tell us about your toughest felony arrest with a gangbanger or wacked out Aryan alpha hotel.

The rest of my response to you isn't fit for print.

Jeff

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Civility

Gentlemen.

Let us remain civil.

This will not be a platform for demonstrating the "art of the put-down."

 

[Jenrick]

Here's to Sgt. Young, a swift and full recovery. Thank god ODMP didn't add another name to it's rolls that night.

I'll leave the rest of my thoughts on the suspect and all out in the interest of taking the high road.

-Jenrick

 

[rrruuunnn]

the story is true
google search Sgt. Marcus Young

 

[Old Guy]

True +1

The one thing that seems to be a constant in any fight, it's a mess! even looking at it later, one that you were involved in, it's still a mess in your mind, and if you are asked how long it took to resolve this conflict, in time, you are normally clueless.

One thing that helps in conflict resolution that I can speak to, the more you are in them, the easier it gets.

Spending 5 years as a Bouncer (we were called Doormen?) in Liverpool UK, 1960 to 65 lots of fights were participated in, we found out early in this part time job (young married, fixed income day job) you started fights, or lost them in most instances. The strongest muscle is cited just behind your teeth! your tongue! talk is cheap, but plentiful use of this muscle normally guarantees a low use of other ones!

Many years later, and a few non paid conflicts behind me, my wee two story house is quite well protected by a realist with a Glock 19, who has no compunction of any nature to hold back on the early lessons of being the first with the most-est in conflict resolution of a loud kind.

With a cell phone plugged in near my ear, surprise visitors in the night would be of the illegal kind, while the only other legal resident in my home is sleeping next to me, all others are fair game.

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

Hey Hero, tell us about your toughest felony arrest with a gangbanger or wacked out Aryan alpha hotel.

The rest of my response to you isn't fit for print.

Jeff

Oh I am not knocking the officer by any means, in fact I think he is a brave man and he has my total respect. I am knocking the reporting. Reading that story the way it was written did not make practical sense. I am not saying the story is not true, I am just the way it is written sounds bogus.

I am sorry if I offended you.

 

[ilbob]

I wonder when and how his continuing medical bills are being handled? By all rights, his department/municipality should cover them, but sadly, that is not always the case.

We had two Dallas officers shot critically, and thanks to the new "workers compensation" plan drawn up by the idiotic, anti-police, anti-gun, anti-democracy mayor, Laura Miller, they lost their paychecks after something like two months.

I have considerable sympathy for the injured workers but I must ask how is this any worse then any other worker harmed in on the the job injury who faces the same financial issues after wards?

 

[CT]

That is a true hero. Always good to know there are some of these people still left among us.

 

[B yond]

Wow. Just wow.

I've spent a lot of time in Ukiah. I shop at that Wal-Mart. I had no clue.

I have nothing but respect for that cop, security guard, and cadet.

Do they allow cadets with CCWs to carry while on patrol? I realize this one was just 17 at the time so it doesn't apply to him, but could others? It seems to me that in a situation like that the more guns on the good guys' side the better.

I still can't believe that happened so close to home.

Wow.

 

[hankdatank1362]

Might sound a bit gruesome, but the picture at the bottom of the story made me cheer out loud for our hero cop!

 

[Jim March]

This was California, hence neither the cadet or guard had any chance at CCW.

Back on topic:

I find it real interesting that the goblin started with a knife and then transitioned to the gun. That was very unusual and in my opinion piss-poor tactics on the goblin's part and a key reason the cop won. The usual rule of thumb is, if you see a non-gun deadly weapon, there's *probably* no gun about to jump into the mix...that's been my personal experience in two real encounters so far, so as you can imagine I've studied that subject in detail. My two incidents turn out to be typical in this regard.

This case is an obvious exception.

 

[romma]

Incredible story! There are sure some crazy people out there that will kill you quick as lightning if given the chance...

 

[h-word]

Hope that cop gets back out there soon.

I was just talking to a state trooper about this when he was at my store picking up a 18 year old female shopper who I detained. she didn't have a bat sh*t boyfriend waiting for her outside the store...

 

[Jenrick]

I also forgot to mention, I hope the security guard Brett Schott makes a full recovery and has the assistance of someone to help him. No one else at that Walmart got into the fight, but an unarmed security guard with no duty to intervene jumped in on the fight. I hope Mr. Schott after a full recovery decides to try for the badge, he's got the right attitude.

ilbob: A worker who is sustained this kind of grevious injury on the job would be more then able to go to OSHA and from their file a law suite for damages, wages, medical expenses, etc. A lot of police departments consider this kind of stuff, "just par for the job," and treat it no different then a back injury. If I hurt my back getting in and out of my patrol car, and have to spend a month or two off of work I can understand the city not wanting to cover more then that. Getting shot and stabbed during the course of a call, it a little different.

-Jenrick

 

[ilbob]

ilbob: A worker who is sustained this kind of grevious injury on the job would be more then able to go to OSHA and from their file a law suite for damages, wages, medical expenses, etc. A lot of police departments consider this kind of stuff, "just par for the job," and treat it no different then a back injury. If I hurt my back getting in and out of my patrol car, and have to spend a month or two off of work I can understand the city not wanting to cover more then that. Getting shot and stabbed during the course of a call, it a little different.

-Jenrick

You don't appear to understand just how the worker compensation system actually works. In the first place, OSHA has nothing to do with it. They only regulate workplace safety. You can't sue anyone there at all. Thats what courts are for. You could file a complaint alleging an unsafe workplace exists, and OSHA might well investigate and fine an employer if they determined something there was indeed unsafe, but the injured worker would not see any of that fine money.

WC systems are administered by each state, not the federal government. They were put in place as a means of dealing with workplace injuries without having to use the court system. For practical purposes (with a few rare exceptions), you basically give up your right to sue your employer for injuries received on the job when you accept employment. the government determines what compensation you will receive for injuries suffered while at work.

In most cases, there is some maximum benefit a worker gets while temporarily disabled. In Illinois that is currently something like $1150/week. So if I was injured on the job as seriously as the officer was, that would be what I would get while I was recuperating. It would be a substantial pay cut. Its not taxable, so its not quite as painful, but even so I would not only get hurt, I would suffer financially as well.

 

[Jenrick]

ilbob I'm aware OSHA doesn't provide money, but if they find a workplace violation and fine the employer you then have very good grounds for a civil suit.

My reference to OSHA was to bring up the point that any other profession barring the military, and maybe firefighting, were and employee sustained this level on injury would be investigated, fined. Thus creating a positive environment for a law suit to help recoup costs. All cops know (or should at least) however that this kind of stuff can happen, it's not like we think working patrol is going to be like working in a car shop or construction. It's just sad most administrations don't consider this type of injury any different then slipping on a flight of icy stairs at the court house.

$1150 a week would be a pay raise for me, correct me if I'm wrong but it will continue to pay until the worker is well enough to return to work correct? The issued referenced is that the city stopped paying after two months (after sick leave, vacation, etc. ran out). Not that the city wasn't paying them fairly, enough etc.

-Jenrick

 

[ilbob]

ilbob I'm aware OSHA doesn't provide money, but if they find a workplace violation and fine the employer you then have very good grounds for a civil suit.

You might think so, but it is not normally true. You generally just cannot sue your employer over work place injuries.

$1150 a week would be a pay raise for me, correct me if I'm wrong but it will continue to pay until the worker is well enough to return to work correct? The issued referenced is that the city stopped paying after two months (after sick leave, vacation, etc. ran out). Not that the city wasn't paying them fairly, enough etc

If I understood correctly, the city stopped paying salary, not WC benefits. I doubt my company would continue my salary indefinitely if I were seriously injured. that is what the WC system is for. I am not sure how long you get temporary disability pay. It no doubt is different in different states. But all states also have a permanent disability payment plan built into their WC systems.

I took a look at the IL WC benefit table. It seems to indicate the permanent disability rate is the same as the temporary rate, if you are 100% disabled. Very few people are 100% disabled.

 

[Sistema1927]

+1 for the good guys.

 

[B yond]

This was California, hence neither the cadet or guard had any chance at CCW.

Not true, although it is a common misconception. A CCW can be fairly easy to get in many parts of CA. Mendocino County (where Ukiah is, IIRC) is one of those places.

 

[Scorpiusdeus]

Only on a gun forum can a heroic story of an Officer involved shooting be met in the first two posts by police bashing and anti LE comments from people who've likely never fired a shot in anger.

Godspeed to all of the heroes of that dangerous encounter.

 

[ilbob]

Only on a gun forum can a heroic story of an Officer involved shooting be met in the first two posts by police bashing and anti LE comments from people who've likely never fired a shot in anger.

Maybe the posts have since been edited but I did not see any cop bashing or anti-LEO comments in the first two posts (presumably you are referring to posts #2 and #3). There was some bashing of the writing about the story in post #2, and unconditional support and appreciation for the officer in post #3.

In fact, I went back through all the posts and couldn't find anything that seemed to be cop bashing or anti-LEO at all. Perhaps those posts were deleted.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

As far as wishing speedy recoveries for those involved, those are very nice thoughts but this happened in March of 2003. I'm sure they are as recovered as they will be at this time.