Poll on Reload disaster

Have you ever broke / blown up a gun from your reloads

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 5.0%
  • No

    Votes: 134 95.0%

  • Total voters
    141
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
I voted "yes", but it wasn't anything dramatic. As a teenager I thought everything should be right up to maximum, but didn't exactly know how to tell what maximum was. I would unload the empties in my .357 by pounding the ejector rod against the edge of the bench. The gun was rebuilt twice. The second time, it came back from the manufacturer with a note that basically said "Don't send it back again. And you should probably stop whatever you're doing to it."
 
Have you ever broke a gun from your ( that you loaded not bought) reloads. I feel most of us are safe & precise.
Never broke a gun, but I have had only one squib, trying to load realy low velocity rounds, as suggested in one of the gunzines of the time.:cuss: Another time, I was giving a demonstration to a Boy Scout troop, and hadn't primed the cases! I noticed that when the fine-grained powder started leaking out of the primer pockets!:eek: Needless to say, my reputation as a reloader didn't get much respect after that. Almost as bad as when I was taking photos for our church directory, and hadn't loaded the film in my camera! :rofl:
 
Never broke a gun, but I have had only one squib, trying to load realy low velocity rounds, as suggested in one of the gunzines of the time.:cuss: Another time, I was giving a demonstration to a Boy Scout troop, and hadn't primed the cases! I noticed that when the fine-grained powder started leaking out of the primer pockets!:eek: Needless to say, my reputation as a reloader didn't get much respect after that. Almost as bad as when I was taking photos for our church directory, and hadn't loaded the film in my camera! :rofl:
we have all done the “Missing Primer” trick

and I won’t shoot your reloads ! lol
 
I voted "yes", but it wasn't anything dramatic. As a teenager I thought everything should be right up to maximum, but didn't exactly know how to tell what maximum was. I would unload the empties in my .357 by pounding the ejector rod against the edge of the bench. The gun was rebuilt twice. The second time, it came back from the manufacturer with a note that basically said "Don't send it back again. And you should probably stop whatever you're doing to it."
That’s what you call a Slap-A-Gram letter! and did you eat lead paint chips as a teenager? lol
 
Seems creating a squib load is a right of passage.
Not shooting another live round is a Right to Not Getting the Darwin Award.

I had a buddies who drinks beer on his day off. We were shooting 1911’s at the deer lease. He was shooting, I heard the muted pop sound… learned from Youtube… I said STOP… he keep trying racking and pulling the trigger, luckily the Squib was shallow enough to get it out of battery

His words… I thought I forgot to charge one
 
Have not.
But then, I always load alone, no phone, no music, rested, focused, triple-check everything, verify one scale against the other (2 different brands), and batch-load on a single-stage press.
I also compare info from different manuals (RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, Lee)
Never shoot anything other than factory, or what I loaded myself.
Oh, and I document/record everything.
Call me anal, the price of SAFETY is eternal vigilance…
^ ^ ^ ^ this ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Reloading needs 100% full attention
to everything that's being done.
I've said it many times, and it chaps
some people's butts, but it's their
butt to risk and their firearms to
put at risk
Meanwhile we can all read the
many posts all over the web about
stuck bolts and cylinders and bullets
jammed tightly halfway down barrels
 
In over 40 years of hand loading, I have had two occasions of minor firearm damage. When shooting varmints with my Savage 110 light Varmint in .223 Rem in 95 degree weather, I touched off one of my handloads that was close to book maximum with Accurate 2230 powder and a Remington “second” 50 gr PSP bullet. It created enough pressure that we struggled to get the bolt open, and when we did, we lost the ejector from the bolt. A trip to the gunsmith got the ejector replaced and he verified the headspace on the rifle was okay. Best guess is that the high temperature combined with a slightly oversized projectile led to the issue.
The other involved a Taurus .38 snub nose revolver which stuck a case in the cylinder that had to be pounded out. And, then every time we fired it, the case would stick in that chamber, even with factory ammo. Probably an overcharge of powder, sent it back to Taurus and they replaced the cylinder.
Both of these happened over 20 years ago, neither gun was “destroyed”, nor was there any injury to the shooter. But, lessons were learned.
 
@Mark_Mark - just a quick observation of this experimental method: by pulling a shooting site, a hand loading/reloading forum, you’re building observation bias into the dataset. Among the broad population of reloaders, those of us which have sufficient interest in the craft to spend our time frequenting forums to discuss the topic are much more likely to be better at the craft than most, which in most cases would also mean, we’re more likely to be more attentive and/or have processes which are better developed with sub-processes which prevent under-charging or over-charging cases. So even though this particular sub-set of reloaders is more likely to have reloaded and fired more rounds than MOST reloaders, we're also more committed to the task so we learn in more productive ways, and operate in more controlled processes than the average reloader. And by saying "average reloader," remember, the "average reloader" is someone with a VERY dusty press, and someone who has never even viewed an online reloading forum. They bought a book and a press, maybe a kit, and maybe they've reloaded a few times, maybe only once... Relatively speaking, there are far fewer folks near the top end of the spectrum of highly skilled and experienced reloaders than there are folks near the bottom end which have absolutely no idea what they are doing beyond what it says to do in the book.

Reading this thread, I have to admit, I'm a little frustrated by the reminder of the mis-focus we have as a culture of reloaders. Within this thread, we have largely discussed predominantly UNDER charge failures, creating squibs, which prompts me to remind folks, squibs are a LOW pressure event, and are only dangerous to the shooter not paying attention. AT LEAST TWO MISTAKES MUST HAPPEN FOR A SQUIB TO RESULT IN AN OVERPRESSURE EVENT. There must first be a mistake at the reloading bench where a powder charge is missed, or grossly under charged, or an inappropriate powder/primer combination is chosen which does not fully ignite AND subsequently, the shooter must be inattentive at the range and fail to notice their squib when firing, and then send another round up the tail of the stuck bullet.

But, squib-booms do happen, because there ARE inattentive shooters in the world. They shouldn't happen, because at least two mistakes have been made, which kinda implies at least an additional mistake was made, meaning there was no QC check step in the process to confirm the presence of powder before seating bullets, so the reloader/shooter failed to charge a case, or grossly under charged, then failed to check their charge before seating or before firing, AND they failed to acknowledge a squib when firing... The reloader/shooter which makes three subsequent independent procedural mistakes doesn't draw much sympathy from me, because they had at least 3 opportunities to avoid the resulting failure... But squib-booms are probably the most common or second most common cause for catastrophic destruction of firearms.

The other most common cause for catastrophically destructive over-pressure events is mis-identification of powders at the reloading bench. When guys grab the wrong can, bad, bad things happen. For example, I know 42.5grn of Varget accidentally replacing H4350 under a 140grn ELD in 6.5 creed would create ridiculously high pressure, and it's common for a shooter to have a 223/5.56 which eats Varget as well as a 6.5 Creed which eats H4350. And a guy like me who shoots a lot of magnum revolvers as well as does some big game hunting might have an opportunity to mistakenly put 76grn of H110 into a 300win mag case instead of H1000 - and I'm not sure there would even be a body left behind after that went off... Any time a pistol powder inadvertently finds its way into a rifle case, there is opportunity for carnage. And unfortunately, the only available control for avoiding this failure mode is procedural, not mechanical - the answer is only "be careful to make sure you have the right powder." which isn't terribly productive. In professional risk management protocols for process safety design, any failure mode which has an A or B classified failure mode (SIF potential - Significant Injury or Fatality) meaning one or more people in the immediate or nearby area could be injured or killed MUST have non-procedural, mechanical safeguards and typically MUST have more than one ISL - independent safety layer. In this case, unfortunately, there really is no mechanical safety mechanism which can prevent the wrong powder from being used, only procedural safeguards - human processes - and really only ONE human process, which only counts as 1/2 ISL... so we're stuck with 1/2 ISL instead of having the 1.5 which should be required were a reloading bench under the purview of professional process health and safety managers...

Maybe acknowledging here too - there are SCARY events which damage firearms and can cause injury, which are case failures, which are predominantly caused by one of two things - less commonly caused by gunsmiths cutting excessive chamfer on the chamber mouth, meaning cases aren't supported along the base of the case wall, and more commonly, unfortunately, a LOT of new reloaders read reloading manuals and follow die instructions for how to (incorrectly) set up their sizing dies and they grossly under-size their brass, and create case stretch and eventually case failure (Lee and Lyman manuals instruct to screw the die to touch the shellholder plus 1/4-1/2 turn cam over, Hornady acknowledges contact + cam over; which in most rifle chambers creates excessive headspace and damages brass in short time). Again, these failures typically just blow out the magazine and damage the extractor, and scare the hell out of the shooter, but overall are just SCARY, not catastrophically destructive.

Unfortunately, however, most chatter we see online about reloading safety comes in the form of "never go over book max," or "don't load near max loads, it's too risky," none of which has any founding in real world failures. We know pressure proofing processes grossly exceed the maximum pressure standards for manufactured ammunition and reloading data information, and we are blessed in most cartridges that double charges or gross-overcharges simply don't fit into the case. When folks over-charge cases, the common result is a stuck action, or at worst, a blown case, which blows out the magazine and damages the extractor, but in general, the firearm is easily and inexpensively repaired. Double charges for most rifle and magnum revolver loads warn the reloader by spilling themselves all over the bench, because they simply don't fit into the case. So double charges are really only the risk to the pistol and low pressure revolver guys (and some straightwall cartridge rifle guys) who are loading very low fill ratios with fast powders, while the rest of reloaders really don't have problems. However, again, Double Charges really require TWO independent failure modes to cause an over pressure event - the reloader has to have a double charge occur, AND they have to either fail to include a QC step which checks charges before seating or checks ammo weight before firing, OR fail in those processes to catch the double charge (for example, only checking 1 in 5 cartridges instead of all cartridges, or just being lazy and not checking at all). Slight over-charges are harder to catch, but again, most firearm designs aren't so under-designed that a slight over-charge would actually cause catastrophic, destructive failure of the firearm.

So that's a frustrating paradigm to me - way too many reloaders focus their fears on "over-charges" which really are exceptionally rare, including even double charges for most reloading applications, whereas overcharges make up a NEAR-ZERO percentage of actual firearm detonations. Squibs in the hands of inattentive shooters, mistaken powder usage, and case failures due to incorrect die set up are far more common destructive "failures" which actually happen in the real world.
 
Seems creating a squib load is a right of passage.
Then I'll fit right in. In my very early days of handloading, I must have light-loaded one of my 7x57 rounds. At the range, when I pulled the trigger, it just went"phtt", and my buddy Sam says,'hey, I just watched your bullet go about 20-25 feet"! Pulled the bolt, nice clear barrel, rifle and spent case all looked good. Chock it up to my one and only squib. Youth sometimes! Eye opener tho.
 
WOW! even New factory Starline brass falled. Was you & Gun ok? well their gun but must have scared the living daylights out of you

I was fine the FN needed a new extractor. They sent the lot back to Starline but I never did hear what came out of it. Wasn’t the first time I’ve seen one let go, just generally not in my hands.

I suppose I have a machine rest these days I’d probably use just to make things quick & easy, less me involved as well.
 
Since we ARE talking so much on squibs - I have never unintentionally created any squibs in over 30 years of reloading. I HAVE created several intentional squibs, and I HAVE experienced factory ammo squibs, as well as ONE squib my wife loaded for me (which did not dislodge into the barrel) during a competition, and in none of those cases did I fail to notice the squib indicators, so I didn't have any damage... At the match, I ejected the round held vertically to avoid powder spilling in the action, and the bullet extracted with the case, so I went back to shooting (all bullets accounted for = unobstructed bore). With the intentional squibs, I made sure I couldn't fire a subsequent round by not loading any additional rounds, and for the factory ammo, again, all bullets accounted for = unobstructed bore, so when the squib felt and sounded strange and couldn't account for the corresponding bullet downrange, I stopped, observed the squib obstruction, and safely dealt with the lodged bullets before continuing.

I'm not convinced squibs are inevitable for reloaders. At worst, they'd only be inevitable for reloaders which don't have appropriate QC measures in their production process.
 
@Mark_Mark - just a quick observation of this experimental method: by pulling a shooting site, a hand loading/reloading forum, you’re building observation bias into the dataset. Among the broad population of reloaders, those of us which have sufficient interest in the craft to spend our time frequenting forums to discuss the topic are much more likely to be better at the craft than most, which in most cases would also mean, we’re more likely to be more attentive and/or have processes which are better developed with sub-processes which prevent under-charging or over-charging cases. So even though this particular sub-set of reloaders is more likely to have reloaded and fired more rounds than MOST reloaders, we're also more committed to the task so we learn in more productive ways, and operate in more controlled processes than the average reloader. And by saying "average reloader," remember, the "average reloader" is someone with a VERY dusty press, and someone who has never even viewed an online reloading forum. They bought a book and a press, maybe a kit, and maybe they've reloaded a few times, maybe only once... Relatively speaking, there are far fewer folks near the top end of the spectrum of highly skilled and experienced reloaders than there are folks near the bottom end which have absolutely no idea what they are doing beyond what it says to do in the book.

Reading this thread, I have to admit, I'm a little frustrated by the reminder of the mis-focus we have as a culture of reloaders. Within this thread, we have largely discussed predominantly UNDER charge failures, creating squibs, which prompts me to remind folks, squibs are a LOW pressure event, and are only dangerous to the shooter not paying attention. AT LEAST TWO MISTAKES MUST HAPPEN FOR A SQUIB TO RESULT IN AN OVERPRESSURE EVENT. There must first be a mistake at the reloading bench where a powder charge is missed, or grossly under charged, or an inappropriate powder/primer combination is chosen which does not fully ignite AND subsequently, the shooter must be inattentive at the range and fail to notice their squib when firing, and then send another round up the tail of the stuck bullet.

But, squib-booms do happen, because there ARE inattentive shooters in the world. They shouldn't happen, because at least two mistakes have been made, which kinda implies at least an additional mistake was made, meaning there was no QC check step in the process to confirm the presence of powder before seating bullets, so the reloader/shooter failed to charge a case, or grossly under charged, then failed to check their charge before seating or before firing, AND they failed to acknowledge a squib when firing... The reloader/shooter which makes three subsequent independent procedural mistakes doesn't draw much sympathy from me, because they had at least 3 opportunities to avoid the resulting failure... But squib-booms are probably the most common or second most common cause for catastrophic destruction of firearms.

The other most common cause for catastrophically destructive over-pressure events is mis-identification of powders at the reloading bench. When guys grab the wrong can, bad, bad things happen. For example, I know 42.5grn of Varget accidentally replacing H4350 under a 140grn ELD in 6.5 creed would create ridiculously high pressure, and it's common for a shooter to have a 223/5.56 which eats Varget as well as a 6.5 Creed which eats H4350. And a guy like me who shoots a lot of magnum revolvers as well as does some big game hunting might have an opportunity to mistakenly put 76grn of H110 into a 300win mag case instead of H1000 - and I'm not sure there would even be a body left behind after that went off... Any time a pistol powder inadvertently finds its way into a rifle case, there is opportunity for carnage. And unfortunately, the only available control for avoiding this failure mode is procedural, not mechanical - the answer is only "be careful to make sure you have the right powder." which isn't terribly productive. In professional risk management protocols for process safety design, any failure mode which has an A or B classified failure mode (SIF potential - Significant Injury or Fatality) meaning one or more people in the immediate or nearby area could be injured or killed MUST have non-procedural, mechanical safeguards and typically MUST have more than one ISL - independent safety layer. In this case, unfortunately, there really is no mechanical safety mechanism which can prevent the wrong powder from being used, only procedural safeguards - human processes - and really only ONE human process, which only counts as 1/2 ISL... so we're stuck with 1/2 ISL instead of having the 1.5 which should be required were a reloading bench under the purview of professional process health and safety managers...

Maybe acknowledging here too - there are SCARY events which damage firearms and can cause injury, which are case failures, which are predominantly caused by one of two things - less commonly caused by gunsmiths cutting excessive chamfer on the chamber mouth, meaning cases aren't supported along the base of the case wall, and more commonly, unfortunately, a LOT of new reloaders read reloading manuals and follow die instructions for how to (incorrectly) set up their sizing dies and they grossly under-size their brass, and create case stretch and eventually case failure (Lee and Lyman manuals instruct to screw the die to touch the shellholder plus 1/4-1/2 turn cam over, Hornady acknowledges contact + cam over; which in most rifle chambers creates excessive headspace and damages brass in short time). Again, these failures typically just blow out the magazine and damage the extractor, and scare the hell out of the shooter, but overall are just SCARY, not catastrophically destructive.

Unfortunately, however, most chatter we see online about reloading safety comes in the form of "never go over book max," or "don't load near max loads, it's too risky," none of which has any founding in real world failures. We know pressure proofing processes grossly exceed the maximum pressure standards for manufactured ammunition and reloading data information, and we are blessed in most cartridges that double charges or gross-overcharges simply don't fit into the case. When folks over-charge cases, the common result is a stuck action, or at worst, a blown case, which blows out the magazine and damages the extractor, but in general, the firearm is easily and inexpensively repaired. Double charges for most rifle and magnum revolver loads warn the reloader by spilling themselves all over the bench, because they simply don't fit into the case. So double charges are really only the risk to the pistol and low pressure revolver guys (and some straightwall cartridge rifle guys) who are loading very low fill ratios with fast powders, while the rest of reloaders really don't have problems. However, again, Double Charges really require TWO independent failure modes to cause an over pressure event - the reloader has to have a double charge occur, AND they have to either fail to include a QC step which checks charges before seating or checks ammo weight before firing, OR fail in those processes to catch the double charge (for example, only checking 1 in 5 cartridges instead of all cartridges, or just being lazy and not checking at all). Slight over-charges are harder to catch, but again, most firearm designs aren't so under-designed that a slight over-charge would actually cause catastrophic, destructive failure of the firearm.

So that's a frustrating paradigm to me - way too many reloaders focus their fears on "over-charges" which really are exceptionally rare, including even double charges for most reloading applications, whereas overcharges make up a NEAR-ZERO percentage of actual firearm detonations. Squibs in the hands of inattentive shooters, mistaken powder usage, and case failures due to incorrect die set up are far more common destructive "failures" which actually happen in the real world.
Jezzz!!!! You wrote a Article!

reply: Correct! We are not the average reloads group, and probably held at a higher standard due to our interest to making good ammo instead of just quantity

I know 2 Average reloader that I would not trust but have shot their reloads in there guns, they just want cheap ammo.

But there are guys like my brother who doesn’t use the internet forums or at all really, but surrounded himself with books. I would 100% shot his reloads.

SQUIB: GOOD OBSERVATION. Obstruction in barrel is way more dangerous than +Max or even double charge. And powder mixup is probably the WORST

conclusion:
so far 6.6% broke their guns from their reloads! SHOCKING! I was estimating less than 1%
 
Since we ARE talking so much on squibs - I have never unintentionally created any squibs in over 30 years of reloading. I HAVE created several intentional squibs, and I HAVE experienced factory ammo squibs, as well as ONE squib my wife loaded for me (which did not dislodge into the barrel) during a competition, and in none of those cases did I fail to notice the squib indicators, so I didn't have any damage... At the match, I ejected the round held vertically to avoid powder spilling in the action, and the bullet extracted with the case, so I went back to shooting (all bullets accounted for = unobstructed bore). With the intentional squibs, I made sure I couldn't fire a subsequent round by not loading any additional rounds, and for the factory ammo, again, all bullets accounted for = unobstructed bore, so when the squib felt and sounded strange and couldn't account for the corresponding bullet downrange, I stopped, observed the squib obstruction, and safely dealt with the lodged bullets before continuing.

I'm not convinced squibs are inevitable for reloaders. At worst, they'd only be inevitable for reloaders which don't have appropriate QC measures in their production process.
H110 will give you squibs if you don’t treat it right. I replace that powder with something else, forgot, but H110 is not for light weights
 
Have you ever broke a gun from your ( that you loaded not bought) reloads. I feel most of us are safe & precise.
1 squibb, other wise i am still reloading at the starting charges.

i "might" increase the charges a tad, but still stay under max

only been a year for me come October.
 
I double charged my S&W 610 revolver back when I was learning to load on a progressive press using a friend's Dillion Square Deal. If you are familiar with Dillon that is not easy to do. Never did figure out exactly how we managed it but it did result in me pulling 400+ rounds and reworking them.

Dillon has used 3 different linkages on the SD, the first one is the black one in the pliers. No fail safe rod and spring return. It wouldn’t prevent a stuck bar from making a squib or throwing a double with a short (incomplete, back up then go again to completion) stroke.

Then they made the linkage on this measure with fail safe rod that ensured the measure returned on down stroke, preventing squibs but the ability to short stroke double remained.

FB0C0D74-D32B-4E60-9003-FB8E44018F46.jpeg


Then they came out with the “clunker” linkage, that uses no springs and prevents short stoke doubles and positively returns the measure.

2B2B401E-2172-422D-91CB-1C9C97218AAB.jpeg
 
I answered No to the poll, but if it had included squibs, I would have answered Yes.

To this day, I don't how I did it, but I must have fired a primer-only .357 Mag load in my GP-100 ( I love that gun). Fortunately, the bullet didn't get very far past the leade and was easy to extract. When I load, I use an RCBS Rock Chucker and the RCBS powder dispenser. After dropping powder in a block of 50, I always use a flashlight and look diagonally along the edge of each and every case. I want to see only the edge of each powder column. If the edge is too high compared to its neighbors (overfilled) or isn't visible at all (under filled), I know that load is wrong and pull it to redo. That doesn't happen often at all. I guess on the day of the squib, I messed up somewhere in the process.

Though none would be better, I guess one squib in 55 years of reloading isn't too bad a record.
 
“The other most common cause for catastrophically destructive over-pressure events is mis-identification of powders at the reloading bench. When guys grab the wrong can, bad, bad things happen.”

Guilty as charged. Ruined a nice rifle. Charge was verified by measuring charges from unfired cases, so that was the most likely explanation I could come up with. Several months later I found a note I’d made to myself concerning the load and confirming the charge, along with a target I had shot showing the group. My notes confirmed I used the wrong powder.

This is the only problem I’ve ever experienced reloading, and it was a big one. On a positive note, buddies stopped asking me to reload for them…
 
Since we ARE talking so much on squibs
Never say never, I have stuck three bullets. One was a cheap RP .22 LR, one was a wetted WW .45 ACP, one was a .38 Special handload with too much airspace, apparently the primer flash did not reach the powder.
I did not blow any of them out with the next round, so I have not damaged a gun with a "squib."

I did score the chamber by shooting ammo that was giving multiple split cases. It polished out well enough that it is still shooting.
 
To this day, I don't how I did it, but I must have fired a primer-only .357 Mag load in my GP-100 ( I love that gun). Fortunately, the bullet didn't get very far past the leade and was easy to extract.
Yep, I had one of those too. Only I must have had a pretty tight crimp on that bullet because it never even left the case until I got home, pulled it, and noticed that its base was burnt black because the primer had obviously gone off. What really scared me was that when it happened, I just assumed I'd had a misfire, cocked my revolver's hammer back, and fired another round! :oops:
At least I learned a lesson from that almost a disaster - if I ever have what I think is another misfire, I'll stop shooting immediately and unload my gun. And if the bullet isn't still in the suspect case, I'll check to make sure it's not in my barrel before I resume shooting.:thumbup:
 
Since all my reloads are at the middle of the load, Nope. Have bought some .223 ammo that I had a squib on the second shot, first shot was dead center but I had to wait till I got home to take it out. It was in my Kel Tec SU!6CA and I didn't have the tools at the range. It was the Manufacturers fault, long story but it ended up being the crimp was broken on the machine but the worker didn't know that, because he just got back from Vacation. Sent all ammo back and got new crimped ammo and manufacturer paid shipment and even gave me 200 free rounds for my trouble, haven't had a problem with them since.
Who was the manufacturer so we can give them more business?
 
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