Poll Poll Poll!

[notorious]

Hmmm... depends on where you teach. The starting salary for a teacher right out of college around these parts is mid-$40k and that includes benefits and retirement on top of the salary.

Compared that to the average private sector job that college grads are fighting for which pays high $30k and has very little in the way of benefits and retirement... not to mention the automatic pay increases of a teacher, plus after tenure, it takes an act of Congress to fire them, and after moving up and across a few times on the salary schedule, and with a few assignments over the summer teaching a class or two so they work 12 months like the rest of us instead of 10 months... they can top out at more than $100k around here, and you'll see that they are not that underpaid, relative to what the rest of the people are facing, especially against a college grad that is dead-end in a middle management job paying $65k and he thinks he is on top of the world, ma!

No comment at all on the job, it is a tough job and teachers are very important, no argument there, but quit the whining about the pay, at least you have a job.

 

[DWH]

I don't recall whining, I just asked a simple question. The average teacher has to have at least 6 years of college education just to start! By comparison, there are very few jobs which pay less for the amount of prior training required.

Throwing guns into the mix is going to turn away many, much needed, potentially good future educators.

 

[Guitargod1985]

For those of you focusing on the potential for collateral damage and injury/death to innocent bystanders, how could that possibly be any worse than an unopposed killer going from classroom to classroom shooting ten, twenty, or even thirty people?

Personally, I'd rather be directly behind the perp as a trained licensed CWP holder shoots at him than be in a classroom with the killer knowing that nobody is able to fight back.

 

[notorious]

For those of you focusing on the potential for collateral damage and injury/death to innocent bystanders, how could that possibly be any worse than an unopposed killer going from classroom to classroom shooting ten, twenty, or even thirty people?

Personally, I'd rather be directly behind the perp as a trained licensed CWP holder shoots at him than be in a classroom with the killer knowing that nobody is able to fight back.

Good point, but why does it hurt to have anyone who wants to be a first reponder to an active shooter to have specific training to minimize the possibility of collateral damage?

You wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion if the active shooter was engaging the teacher down a hallway, who then fires off a volley, missing the perp, and hitting YOUR kid who was on the other side of the wall.

 

[Dravur]

Show me a profession that requires as much education and pays less! When people push to arm all teachers, and trashmen make more than educators, it proves our country's still got a long way to go to get back on the right track!

Double Baloney...

Teachers, on average work 180 days per year.... Most have a gold plated, defined benefits plan for retirement. Most teachers, if they were good for anything else, would be doing something else. If they get some inner satisfaction, then that is part of their compensation.

There is a clearing price for every job out there. Teachers are getting whatever they accept. If they are willing to accept a job for whatever amount of pay and bennies, then they are getting paid just right. If not, they need to leave and find other employment. I dont see a huge demand for more PE teachers.... If they are getting filled with people now, why offer more money?

We don't have to pay teachers more "just Because" they want it. Also, if a teacher wants to carry, more power to em. After seeing some of the kids that are produced in this country, I wouldn't go into a classroom without a chair, whip and a gun.

 

[notorious]

True... 6 hour days and 180 day work years. Averaging $35/hr. Nice if you can get it.

 

[DWH]

Dravur,
You could have at least responded to the quote directly! Is my statement wrong? Are you saying that trash collectors should be rewarded with more than those who educate children?

"Most teachers, if they were good for anything else, would be doing something else."

Wow! You Sir are profound! I'm sure that's true for most professions! If police officers were good at doing something else and could make as much cash and bennies doing it, without the stress and danger of working their beat, I'm sure many would too. Your statement doesn't say much!

Are you jeolous of teachers that work 180 days, have a comfy vacation, and have a decent pension? If not, why does it bother you so much that some wish they made a more money! Your "They deserve what they get" attitude speaks for itself! I have received a 2% and a 5% raise in the last 10 years. Meanwhile, the administration has given themselves a 12%, a 5%, and an 11% raise in that same time.

With all due respect, I don't complain, or whine about the money I make. I get along fairly well. I just wish that the administration I work for would be less wasteful, and more equitable in the use of public money!

It seems you really have a chip against teachers. What happened?

If it's worth anything... most work many extra hours over their paid time. Many spend handfulls of their own money just to get their students the things they need to learn well. Many enter into hostile environments most ordinary people would quickly slink away from. If you're just an outside observor, you really have no idea what it really takes to work in a school. I hear knee jerk reactions (like yours) all the time! I'm sorry you feel that way!

The fact is...you're here reading and writing, so you should be grateful to at least one teacher. So, instead of bashing teachers in general, thank a teacher, buy one a new SP101 to wear in the small of their back while they sing their ABCs to the little ones!

I can send you my FFL anytime!

 

[notorious]

You let the board vote on the contract while the admin gave themselves a bigger raise, rally against your own union rep for selling you guys out.

As for teachers buying their own stuff and spending their own time, write it off then on the tax forms. Any professional does that without complaint, you know. The professional does what it takes to get the job done, regardless of anything else. Just saying.

How much did you spend in your own money and supplies and time last year and what was it for?

Pencils for Timmy and an hour grading homework? I would seriously like to know.

 

[DWH]

You're right about the rep.!

>"Pencils for Timmy and an hour grading homework?">

You seriously want to know, with that smart a$$ troll? Why should I even respond? What's your beef! Evidently you have your agenda! Typical!

Real High Road stuff, Notorious!

Let's suffice to say that weekly science supplies alone would cover your shifts donut intake for a few months! Oh, you don't have to pay for them... I forgot!

I get paid once a month, and budget about $300 for school supplies each month. I usually spend more. Sometimes less. I tutor reading 4 days a week before school for 45 min, and math on Tues, and Thurs. after school for an hour. Do I get compensated? No! Do I complain? No! I do it because it is the right thing to do! Is it any of your business? No!

Is this hard to believe? It happens all the time, in darn near every school, by very dedicated folks! I assume your closed mind will refute that too!

I'm sick of defending a noble profession to arm chair mud slingers who over generalize, demean folks they don't know, and then condenscend for no other reason than to feel superior! Don't blame a teacher because you didn't realize your highest aspirations!

To keep this on topic, if the amount of animosity I see here towards teachers here is indicative of the public in general, perhaps I should start supporting the ability to carry at work!

Done!

 

[notorious]

Nah... actually I love the teaching profession and I have a lot of admiration for people that do the job. As a matter of fact, my current mentor was a lifelong teacher and administrator, but she was also down to earth and never griped about the pay because it was what she loved to do. I also did instruction but not in a classroom setting.

Now... far be it for me to have any agendas against individual teachers but CTA and their incessant lobbying for politics outside of the teaching realm just rubbed me the wrong way.

If it comes out that I hate teachers, I didn't mean it that way, but every job has its good and bad, and with public service, the pay is balanced out with benefits and job security.

I have been in public service long enough to see how it stacks up against all my friends in private sector jobs. We are not doing too badly, especially in this economy. Just be thankful we have jobs and not suffer the mass layoffs like the private sector.

I don't blame my teachers for any of my life goals. As a matter of fact, you don't really know what I do and where I am in the chain so don't speak as to any of my highest aspirations. You and I can compare our resumes in private and then we'll talk further if you wish.

I had many great teachers who pushed me to achieve when I was a slacker and a few who just didn't give a hoot about their students. In the end, it was all up to me, right?

 

[Dravur]

Interesting....

I have never said I had anything against teachers. I do however have something against teachers Unions. I am for choice and competition in the school system. I am for paying science and math teachers more and PE teachers less. I am for paying on competency, but the teachers unions want hive compensation.

As to the teachers being good for something else... It happens to be a fact that the teaching profession draws quite a number of people who honestly could not make it in the real world where they have to actually be productive. I have met many of these teachers, and so have you. The ones who should be fired, but cannot due to the Union.

So, until there is choice, competition and handguns in the schools, they will never get a raise or passing grade from me.

Seems to me, that the one who is jealous here is someone who rants about what the "Administration" gets. Maybe you should get into administration.

The real test whether teachers should be compensated more is if there is a shortage. No Shortage? no need.

 

[alaskanativeson]

Sorry... my anti-union side is coming out

You're not the only one here who's anti-union. By the way, I'm also a teacher. I'm pro-gun, and politically I'm to the right of Charlemagne. I know that puts me in the minority among the Education profession, but there are some of us who do know guns. By the way, my FFL is my former Principal.

Most teachers, if they were good for anything else, would be doing something else.

Because you started that phrase with "Most" I'm not going to get my nose too far out of joint, but it's an incredibly offensive statement. That statement is (to me) clearly at odds with your later statement of

I have never said I had anything against teachers.

Like I said, I hate the unions as much, if not more, than anyone else. However it's ridiculous and incorrect to make a blanket statement about a group of people that's as ludicrous as that one was. Yes, I do know some teachers who are a waste of education and taxpayer money. I also know a lot of them who are intelligent, dedicated, and committed to making our country grow better by teaching the upcoming generations. I left a job as a manager of a law firm to teach because kids may have hope. I had none for most of our lawyers and almost none of our clients. By the way, most teaching contracts are between 188 and 196 days to allow teacher work days before and after school gets out. Of the school days, I am under contract to be in by 8:00 and stay until 3:30. I'm usually in by 7:00 and it's rare that I leave school before 5 or 6. Many days I bring assignments home to grade. I'm also in, on average, every other Saturday for some activity or another.

To the subject at hand, I wouldn't support most teachers carrying in school.

 

[notorious]

Alaskan Native, a very level headed and cogent post. I salute you sir!

 

[Golden Hound]

I am for paying science and math teachers more and PE teachers less. I am for paying on competency, but the teachers unions want hive compensation.

P.E. teachers should be paid MORE because all of the math and science in the world isn't worth a tinker's damn if the country is dying of premature diabetes and OBESITY! Better health education in K-12 schools would save this country billions of dollars in health-related costs. The way most people let their bodies go in this country is utterly disgraceful.

P.E. class should also incorporate shooting practice...of course, this is a pipe dream, in the truest sense of the word...literally the kind of dream where you need to put down the pipe if you think it could become a reality - sad but true. In today's insane world, the thought of rifle class in a school would cause most people to burst a blood vessel inside their brain and die from the shock of the concept. But they used to have it decades ago and I don't recall any problems back then.

 

[notorious]

I miss the old days when we saluted the flag and recited the pledge of allegiance and also had prayers in school... all the while the JROTC drilled and paraded around with the de-milled 1903 rifles. What was wrong with that? It was a great generation.

 

[Golden Hound]

It was a putrid, horrible generation...there was no tolerance, no diversity, no progressiveness, none of the great things that make a culture truly civilized. It was nothing but a wasteland of ignorance and primitive fanaticism. They never accomplished anything back then. The country is a much, much better place now. The cities are more diverse and progressive and enlightened and tolerant...but---the crime, you say? It's because of the evil assault rifles. And racism. Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[alaskanativeson]

...P.E. class should also incorporate shooting practice...of course, this is a pipe dream, in the truest sense of the word...

Au contraire. In my first school district in Alaska I taught shooting. We covered gun safety and proper handling in class, went out on the Kuskokwim River, set up targets, and shot. I do realize that I'm in the less than 1% of the teachers who will ever get that opportunity in today's world, but it did happen. In my current school there is a Student Services Coordinator who does a lesson about gun safety (and brings in his own rifle and revolver into the classrooms to do so) so it's not me, but it still happens here. They don't go out shooting during class like we did in my first area but gun safety is covered.

 

[Golden Hound]

Let's just say when it comes to certain things, Alaska is much more "progressive" than supposed hotbeds of cultural enlightenment such as California and New York. The people there seem to still have some kind of contact with the land.

I have a theory that the closer people are to the land, the more common sense they have. The further removed they get from the land, from the natural environment that we are meant to thrive in, the more moronic and twisted they become. "Cosmopolitanism" is actually cultural suicide and the small town/village/community is the most natural way for humans to live.

 

[notorious]

It was a putrid, horrible generation...there was no tolerance, no diversity, no progressiveness, none of the great things that make a culture truly civilized. It was nothing but a wasteland of ignorance and primitive fanaticism. They never accomplished anything back then. The country is a much, much better place now. The cities are more diverse and progressive and enlightened and tolerant...but---the crime, you say? It's because of the evil assault rifles. And racism. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Yep, that generation was so intolerant and backwards that they had to put a man on the moon, a feat which has been matched but still has not been surpassed by NASA.

As for the conditions back then, yeah, I would feel safer in the racially tolerant inner cities of today where you see people of all backgrounds just playing hopscotch and pulling saltwater taffy while listening to the coca-cola jingle.

 

[eng23ine]

Show me a profession that requires as much education and pays less!

How about Firefighters, Police, and Paramedics? They all have MORE training and LESS pay( longer hours, more stress, more danger, ect...) than a teacher.

 

[larry starling]

I'm on the No vote on this one. I don't think teachers need guns in the classrooms. Hire armed guards or something.

 

[Golden Hound]

I had an armed guard at my high school, actually. I think he was a cop who moonlighted as a guard. But the guy weighed about 300 pounds and looked like he would have a heart attack if he had to run 10 yards. What's the point of having a guard in such a physical condition?

 

[cbrgator]

I had an armed guard at my high school, actually. I think he was a cop who moonlighted as a guard. But the guy weighed about 300 pounds and looked like he would have a heart attack if he had to run 10 yards. What's the point of having a guard in such a physical condition?

So the school can't say they didn't have security. It's just an illusion and a talking point.

My old apt complex had gate security but the gates were only closed from 10pm to 4am. And they call it traffic control and not security so they can't be liable if a crime is committed.

 

[notorious]

My old condo complex had a security guard that wears the whole getup but only works Thursday to Sunday... so guess what, all the crime happens Monday to Wednesday.

 

[piratelooking@40]

I said if the teacher was licensed otherwise, it should not stop at the gates of the school, however, if he wasn't licensed, being a teacher shouldn't give him any more rights to carry than someone else who doesn't carry.

Can't argue with that.

You wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion if the active shooter was engaging the teacher down a hallway, who then fires off a volley, missing the perp, and hitting YOUR kid who was on the other side of the wall.

I can with that one, though. First, it was the shooter, the attacker, who caused the situation. That's who to blame. Second, it is far, far too much to expect a person to sit and get shot at because if they return fire they might hit the wrong person. We might, in some circumstances, hope that they would, but we may not expect or demand it.

anyone who wants to be a first reponder to an active shooter

If you're unfortunate enough to be in a situation when some nutbag starts shooting, you're not a "first responder," any more than you are if you're in your living room and someone kicks down the door, or if you're mugged. You're a victim. Victims are generally acknowledged to have the right to fight back, and try not to die.

Except in schools. Which is in large part why schools are favorite targets of nutbags.