Polymer and upgraded Makarov?

[el Godfather]

Hi
Will there be market for an upgraded polymer Makarov? What do you think of upgrades such as:

1. Polymer frame
2. HK like decok-safety lever on frame
3. Upgraded chamber to fire +p+ loads and such should be available commercially
4. Ambidextrous *magazine release on trigger guard
5. Factory night sights
6. 15 shot capacity *in 9x18 which slighlty more than mo442


What is your take on this? Perhaps a new Glock model.

Thanks.

 

[Snowdog]

The Makarov is cool. It has a lot going for it, such as it's simplicity, tank-like construction and good ergonomics. However, I doubt they'll be a market for an upgraded makarov.
What you described pretty much exists already in existing platforms. You might as well if you're upsizing to a double stack mag well.

As for +P+ 9x18, why not just upgrade completely to the more powerful 9x19 andp adopt a locking breech to soak up the recoil.

ETA: I see not you're asking about a new model of firearm that fires the 9x18. Still, I don't see the market for it.

 

[2wheels]

What you're talking about wouldn't be a Makarov, aside from maybe vaguely looking similar... Already existing guns no doubt fill this role (just not in 9x18).

Besides, I suspect the main reason people buy the Makarov is because it's a relatively cheap piece of history, something that wouldn't describe what you're talking about.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

CZ 82 does some of what you're talking about.

Otherwise, I don't see the gain and if people in the states want less than a 9mm they go .380 more often than Mak.

 

[Thermactor]

What would you chamber such a weapon in? 380ACP has far better ammo selection and quality than 9x18 Makarov and is dimensionally similar.

 

[dogtown tom]

el Godfather Hi
Will there be market for an upgraded polymer Makarov? No, other than C&R/surplus pistols the market for the 9x18 is virtually nonexistent in the USA.


....3. Upgraded chamber to fire +p+ loads and such should be available commercially You don't "upgrade" the chamber, you upgrade materials in the barrel, slide and frame AND the operating system to handle the increased pressure. There is no SAAMI spec for +P or +P+ in 9x18Mak for a very good reason. The demand for +P or +P+ in 9mmMak is miniscule...........few will buy it and manufacturers will laugh at the idea because the effort and risk is not worth the reward.


4. Ambidextrous slide release on trigger guard How in the world would that work? Could you tell us of another handgun with a slide release on the trigger guard?


What is your take on this? Perhaps a new Glock model. Glock wouldn't touch 9x18 with a ten foot pole.

.....

 

[el Godfather]

^ edited the op.

 

[Monac]

I think Thermactor has the key point. 9mm Makarov has a little more power than 380ACP, but it wasn't enough to make it replace 380ACP even back when there was a tidal wave of surplus East Bloc guns in 9mm Makarov coming into the USA. Now that ultra-lighweight and compact 9mm Parabellum guns have arrived, it's too late.

People who want 380's now want something even more concealable than those, and going from 380 to 9mm Mak is a move in the wrong direction, IMO.

 

[Pelo801]

What you're describing I wouldn't be interested in. I really like the 9mm mak though and I also really like the trigger guard mag release. Now if Walther would make a special run of PPKs in 9mm mak, I would buy one.

 

[TennJed]

It was done (or experimented with). TKB-023

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_pistol

An experimental variant of the Makarov, the TKB-023, was designed with a polymer frame to reduce the weight and costs of the weapon. It had passed Soviet military trials but was never fielded, due to concerns about the polymer's capacities for long-term storage and use

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/rus/makarov-pm-pmm-e.html

Experimantal TKB-023 pistol with polymer frame, a prototype based on Makarov PM pistol (circa 1965)

 

[cluttonfred]

I don't think there would be much interest in an upgraded Makarov, but I do think that there would be interest in an affordable DAO polymer pistol in 9x18mm from all the folks that already have surplus ComBlock pistols and the ammo to go with them. Any of the affordable 9x19mm pocket pistols could be offered in 9x18mm with very little effort, and some of the .380 ACP models would be strong enough to step up to 9x18mm. I am surprised that no one has done it already, at least not in the U.S. market as far as I know.

 

[el Godfather]

Wouldnt upgrading could reduce size and weight to a point where its more concealable then some contemporary competitors out there?

 

[mgmorden]

Wouldnt upgrading could reduce size and weight to a point where its more concealable then some contemporary competitors out there?

No. It's a fixed barrel blowback. Guns in the similar .380 have gone to tiny locked breech designs to make them smaller.

Its already been said, but we've acheived basically Makarov power in a TINY package. We've gotten 9mm Lugers smaller than the Makarov. There's not really a market for it - at least without changing it so much that it basically only carries the Makarov name and has little in common with the original.

I personally like the Makarov a lot - to me its a sleek looking little gun and I enjoy shooting mine - however from a functional perspective its an obsolete design.

 

[lincen]

I pretty much agree about that the 9x18 is sort of a niche round and no manufacturer is going to invest in such a small market. That said, the easiest way to get a new gun to fire the 9x18 would be for someone to make that barrel for the Glock 42. Not sure about the breach face but the magazines and probably the extractor would be fine.

 

[19-3Ben]

As far as development in 9X18, the cartridge is dead. It will live on for decades with the guns already produced and in service, but nobody is developing new guns in 9X18.

I don't expect to see any direct blowback handguns guns being developed for US market either. As others have pointed out, if you want a .380 you can get it in a tiny locked breech design, and if you want 9mm, you can get them even smaller than the .380s of yesteryear.
My Sig P232 is weaker than an LC9 (for instance) and is also larger, heavier, and more expensive. Not a knock on that gun design. It did well for a number of years. but these days, for very pragmatic reasons, that design has been all but abandoned. You can still buy them from Sig, Bersa, Walther and even Hi-point, but it's a small and shrinking market.

 

[Surculus]

Will there be market for an upgraded polymer Makarov? What do you think of upgrades such as:

1. Polymer frame
2. HK like decok-safety lever on frame
3. Upgraded chamber to fire +p+ loads and such should be available commercially
4. Ambidextrous *magazine release on trigger guard
5. Factory night sights
6. 15 shot capacity *in 9x18 which slighlty more than mo442

1. No
2. No. Mak already has decock safety, no need to copy H&K like a fanboi.
3. No. It's a blowback already operating at the ragged edge of blowback action feasibility. There ain't no +p+ to be had w/o going to a locked breech. Get a Kahr if that's your wish.
4. Meh. Not a fan of the euro style heel mag latch, but having to do a complete redesign to get a proper Browning-style mag release just ain't in the cards: it will raise the price too much!
5. Yeah, baby!
6. No. Can't even have the 12-rd Russki late model double stack here behind the Granola Curtain.

I think you're missing the point of the Makarov's popularity in the 1st place, frankly: there are more modern guns to be had already on the market that can outperform it via offering the features you list above. But they can't (couldn't) be had for the <$200 price of a surplus Mak.

The surplus Maks have (mostly?) dried up, so just get over trying to reinvent the thing at a price point that was only attainable by the general surplus sell-off resulting from Reagan's defeat of the evil empire.

 

[el Godfather]

I guess the facination is with the compactness of Mak and the 12 shot capacity. I was trying to see how if possible to further improve on those 2 features. I am ok with 9x18 power as I believe it can do the job ie SD. Off course more power is better but that comes with trade offs.

I used to own a g26, but it never felt right in my hand. It was still think like any other Glock in 9 or 40, and the grip was very small. Mak on the other hand just fits perfect and if I am right (never actually measures this) it has slimmer the Glock profile.

I also fonlded with the idea of p2k-sk, but didnt really impress me. Funny thing is that when I was younger I never really like the Maks, but after like 15 years the other day I held and shot it, and it felt fantastic. Especially I felt more comfortable with the idea that new Maks are now available.

I am not a .380 fan, never was. But would not strike out Sig Sauer.

 

[GLOOB]

IIRC, there was some experimentation with a more powerful loading in the Mak platform. In order to prevent KB's, the chamber was machined with ridges to delay the slide (by chewing up the brass).

 

[krupparms]

The 12rd. PMM ( Pistol Modernized Makarov) fires a high impulse round. As pointed out the chamber has spiral cuts to hold the round slightly longer before opening. The round was hard on the guns &caused problems. The round was used in a SMG also. The PMM was issued along with the PM, but the ammunition was not issue because it might get put in the PM. The Makarov would be nice with a polymer frame, but I won't hold my breath! I have a model PMM that I got at a G.S. years ago. But I have never seen another one. The PMM is a nice upgrade, as I can load 13 gold dots in it! But mag.s are hard to find! Still a nice pistol! I have heard that a regular single stack magazine will work, but haven't tryed it yet.

 

[Surculus]

I guess the facination is with the compactness of Mak and the 12 shot capacity. I was trying to see how if possible to further improve on those 2 features. I am ok with 9x18 power as I believe it can do the job ie SD. Off course more power is better but that comes with trade offs.

You can find even more compact pistols firing 9mmP with locked breach actions now [Kahr, Kel-Tec, etc] so unless Putin cancels Russia's invasion of the Ukraine & we get Obama's embargo on Russian ammo lifted, 9mmMak isn't going to be any cheaper than it already is, and that's too expensive to compete w/ 9mmP ammo prices.

While I wouldn't mind a PMM if it was legal for me to own one here [missed out on that opportunity back b4 Y2K!], I'm unclear as to whether they're as reliable as the original [single-stack mag autoloaders being generally more reliable than double-stack ones.]

Regardless, I'm just glad I got a Mak when they were still cheap & plentiful. Wish I'd stocked up on surplus ammo for it at the same time!