poor groups rock river 223

[just cannot get it right]

please help!! any one out there having problems with a rock river eop .223 24" stainless with a 1-12 twist? i cannot get mine to shoot any thing smaller than 2" + at 100 yds. i have tried different powders (benchmark,varget H335 4064 10X and more ) tried winchester,remington 7 1/2 primers,50&55 vmax ,nosler 55ballistic tpi winchester 55 psp remington 55sp seirra 45 sp hornady 55 sp and more just cannot get the groups to get smaller ( no its not me no alcohol or caffine can shoot 1/2 groups with ruger 77 22-250 all day long). i bought this to shoot p-dogs in montana but i think i got the black gun from hell! have tried 3 different scope mounts (found out not all fit picatinny the right way) tried 4 differnet scopes (had gotten a pentax only lasted 3 days cross hairs boke apart.had taken it to local gun smith. i was abel to unscrew barrel nut by hand ( really twisted on forearm with bare hands) he retorqued barrel nut to about 70 ft pounds was shotting 3" groups before after retorque am getting 2" groups any help? not the end of story yet have to run will tell rest later thanks

 

[popper]

Long barrel can give barrel whip. Tried changing powder (speed)? RR is supposed to have a good trigger. 70# sounds high. Floating HS? Shooting from bag? First time with AR? If so, find someone who is a good shot with AR to test gun. My 24" 308 will do 1 MOA, but not by me. 150 SPP H335, loaded by me..

 

[hithard]

look at the simple things first, crown, no marks? all shroud pieces tight? go over the scope and bases one more time.

clean the bore, get some ammo that is proven to group well.

I have three RR, the mid wieght is a little fussy, but the predators will both shoot anything you put in then inside of one inch at 100yds.

Good luck

check that headspacing! you could be a touch long. masking tape on the end of your case is a quick but not totally perfect way to test. two layers and you shouldn't be able to close, use a new case, pull the bullet though(safety first). One layer should go snug.
This is only a quick check, to possibly help you identify a problem, by all means a qualified gunsmith check just to be sure and safe.

Your brass will not always show signs of this problem in one firing.

 

[Welding Rod]

You aren't letting the barrel touch anything, like resting it on a bag are you?

 

[TonyAngel]

First, welcome to THR.

In my experience, all of the RRA varmint type of rifles that I've seen were shooters. MOA at 100 at least. I'm not familiar with that model that referred to though. What is an EOP?

Anyway, my knee jerk would be that it's you. Shooting a bolt gun is not the same as shooting an AR. Generally, shooting a bolt gun well is easier than shooting an AR well. Bolt guns tend to have better triggers. Bolt guns also have faster lock times.

My advise would be to get more trigger time with the AR and be more mindful of your follow through. I'd also try a load that has a reputation as being accurate in most rifles. What pops into my mind would be something along the lines of a Sierra 52gr HP using some sort of stick powder. I do believe that Varget is appropriate for that weight projectile, but I don't think the ammo is your problem. I've had good luck with all of the projectiles that you mentioned.

 

[FlyinBryan]

how many rounds through this stainless barrel so far?

 

[BrainOnSigs]

My guess...after your comment "have tried 3 different scope mounts (found out not all fit picatinny the right way) tried 4 differnet scopes (had gotten a pentax only lasted 3 days cross hairs broke apart"....is where your problem lies.


My RRA Varmint A4 is a shooter......even before I reloaded for it.

 

[P-32]

If your cross hairs are falling apart.....I would buy some good glass before I blamed the rifle.

 

[ms6852]

I have the predator which shoots shoots hornady match under .75 5 shot group. My guess is that you have not found what the rifle likes. Another guess would be your 1:12 twist. You might need to shoot very light pills.

 

[TonyAngel]

1:12 is fine for 55gr projectiles. I took the comments about the scope issues to mean that he resolved them.

 

[dannyr3_8]

First, welcome to THR.

In my experience, all of the RRA varmint type of rifles that I've seen were shooters. MOA at 100 at least. I'm not familiar with that model that referred to though. What is an EOP?

Anyway, my knee jerk would be that it's you. Shooting a bolt gun is not the same as shooting an AR. Generally, shooting a bolt gun well is easier than shooting an AR well. Bolt guns tend to have better triggers. Bolt guns also have faster lock times.

My advise would be to get more trigger time with the AR and be more mindful of your follow through. I'd also try a load that has a reputation as being accurate in most rifles. What pops into my mind would be something along the lines of a Sierra 52gr HP using some sort of stick powder. I do believe that Varget is appropriate for that weight projectile, but I don't think the ammo is your problem. I've had good luck with all of the projectiles that you mentioned.

eop-elavated optical platform instead of carry handle it has a permanatly fixed raised platform with picantinny rails

 

[Tim the student]

If you are sure it isn't an optics issue, or something relatively obvious (like a dinged crown), I don't know what to tell you, other than if it were me, I'd contact RRA.

BTW, I really doubt you have a 1:12 twist. Mine is 1:8 (which shoots 50g V-max very well), and I'm fairly certain that they all are. I don't see it as an option on their site either. Was it rebarreled or anything at a previous point in time?

Are you the original owner? What does the bore look like?

 

[ms6852]

If you know a good shooter or two have both of them shoot some groups for you. In all honesty it could be you, but all variables need to be elimanted as to why the poor groups. If all three of you are shooting large groups it could be the rifle. But first buy match bullets from various brands until you find what it likes. I shot about 12 different brands and bullet weights until I found what it likes. Your EOP is guaranteed accuracy of .75 MOA.
My rock river predators shoots better than that. It did shoot 2" groups with the bullets it did not like.

 

[saddlerocker]

My 1/12" twist bolt action .223 likes 40gr V-Max and anything else is about 2" groups.

Factory ammo though, no handloads, so I would think that 50gr handloads would be good.
But try some cheap Fiocchi 40gr V-Max or more expensive Hornady or Black Hills 40gr V-Max and see if its better

 

[kwelz]

If it is really 1/12 then I would say that is the core problem. You need very light/short bullets for accuracy with that twist rate.

 

[dc.fireman]

JCGIR - Try three things:

1. Clean the barrel with a copper removing cleaner (Hoppes Benchrest Gold, Sweets 7.62, Gunslick Bore Foam). I've had problems in the past, with copper fouling - I nearly pulled out what was left of my hair trying to pin down some phantom issue, when it was a simple cleaning problem. Break-Free, Hoppes No.9, Rem-Oil - none of these remove copper fouling.

2. Have you broken the barrel in yet? Is this rifle new, or new to you? I wouldn't be overly critical of your group size, until you have somewhere in the vicinity of 200 rounds down the barrel - not just your RRA, but any rifle for that matter.

3. Shoot slow-fire, from a rest. Eliminate any possibility that the group size is caused by shooter error.

If you can, post a picture of your targets - many of the folks here were able to help me out, just from looking at my targets, and were able to point out some small issues with my shooting, which have helped me along considerably.

Good Luck, and Welcome to the High Road!

 

[JDGray]

AR0229ASY-24 Inch Stainless Steel Varmint Barrel Assembly, 1:12 Twist

From RRA web site...

I say keep looking for a load it likes. My 1:8 twist Predator Pursuit only group well with 60gr Sierra Varminters, it spit everything else out like buckshot!

 

[kwelz]

2. Have you broken the barrel in yet? Is this rifle new, or new to you? I wouldn't be overly critical of your group size, until you have somewhere in the vicinity of 200 rounds down the barrel - not just your RRA, but any rifle for that matter.

Barrels to not require breaking in. Especially not to get better than 2 inch groups.

 

[dc.fireman]

Barrels to not require breaking in. Especially not to get better than 2 inch groups.

Whatever....

 

[kwelz]

Show me any gun that really requires breaking in. I have never in my life owned a single rifle that had to be broken in to shoot better than 2 MOA. If it does then there is something wrong with it.

 

[TonyAngel]

If it is really 1/12 then I would say that is the core problem. You need very light/short bullets for accuracy with that twist rate.

I don't think this is right. Unless I'm mistaken, the military used to use 1:12 or 1:14 twists to stabilize M193, which is a 55gr bullet. They only went to 1:7 so that it would stabilize longer bullets like tracers.

I don't think that breaking in is so much an accuracy thing as it is a conditioning of the barrel thing, to prevent against excessive copper fouling, especially at the throat.

 

[nipprdog]

Especially not to get better than 2 inch groups.

Whatever....

Sorry, but he's right.

 

[d2wing]

It could be a mechanical issue as well. The bolt fit and lock up? Fore arm fit?
correct buffer and spring. Mine did not shoot as well with a heavy duty spring
and the buffer was too light. I bought it as a built rifle but the builder made some mistakes.
Could be the scope or mount. That could be in spec for that rifle. Not all are
1 moa rifles. Might have to trade it or rebuild it. Tilting or canting is a issue on rifles with a scope so high. A very slight tilt can throw your shoot especially if not zeroed for the distance you shoot. Good luck.

 

[Hoghunter]

Your problem might be something real simple. Are your scope rings torqued to the correct specification per the instructions? If so, you might also consider using "blue" loctite on the ring screws to eliminate loosening due to shock and vibration.

Just a thought.

HH