Poor Old Quarter Bore

[DocRock]

While there is no need for a new one, what has need to do with cartridge development?

With all the recent introductions of "efficient" cases suited to VLD bullets in fast twist rifles, the poor old quarter bore seems to have been neglected. The 6mm and 6.5mm get all the love and attention.

The 257 Roberts has a loyal following. The venerable 25-06 hangs in there. No idea how popular the 257 Weatherby Magnum, or others are, these days. But the critique of the Quarter Bore has always been its sort of short, stubby bullets. So, it seems a candidate for the new fashion of efficient, fat cases and long bullets with fast twist barrels.

25-08? Possibly move the shoulder back a bit and shorten the neck slightly to avoid the 260 Rem shortfall? Or just neck the Creedmoor to .257 and be done with it: the 257 RM (Roberts Modern)? 1:8 twist? A nice long 130 grs VLD doing a little less FPS than the 270 Win but with all that SD? Call it the "Ultimate Predator to Pronghorn Cartridge"?

Again, absolutely no need, but the Old Quarterbore could do with a modern option.

 

[horsemen61]

25 Creedmoor look it up

131 grain blackjack bullet look it up

It might just surprise you

 

[DocRock]

25 Creedmoor look it up

131 grain blackjack bullet look it up

It might just surprise you

Should have figured someone would be on it! Interesting that he went with a 1:7 twist! Those 131 grs bullets certainly do address the compliant about short and stubby and at 2934 FPS, it's not giving much of anything up to a 24" 270 Win.


Labeled in Article: L to R: .25 Ace131, 6.5 Barnes 140, 6.5 Berger 140, 6.5 Hornady 140

https://coldboremiracle.com/2018/10/04/operation-quarter-lord-the-25-creedmoor/

 

[ridgerunner1965]

oh so tiresome, there is nothing new under the sun. the 6.5x55 was doing what the creedmore is doing about 100 years ago.

the 25-06 was doing what it does for a long time. its a good round but only cuz yu can make cases from 06 brass.

we have the 243 wich takes up all the slack in between.

but ill have to admit the 257 weatherby is impressive. I had one for 2 days one time and sold it for twice what I gave for it. never shot it.

 

[LoonWulf]

I had a .250 savage AI, that would drive a 115gr Berger vld to 3100 from a 26" tube. Still a 1-10 tho, so those 115s were about as heavy a box as it could use.
If my buddy didn't want the thing so bad, I'd still have it lol.

The blackjacks are interesting, and you can get fast twist .257 barrels, but still not enough support unless something like the .25 CM (which basically duplicates the .250ai) takes off.

Personally I think that if you want to use 115-120gr bullets the .257s are a sweet spot.

 

[mustanger98]

This is the first I've heard about any complaint about .257Roberts and .25-06 using short stubby bullet, and I've seen several posts around here talking about running it with 100grainers. When I was fooling with a .25-06, I was loading 117's and 120's... didn't noticed a problem.

 

[DocRock]

This is the first I've heard about any complaint about .257Roberts and .25-06 using short stubby bullet, and I've seen several posts around here talking about running it with 100grainers. When I was fooling with a .25-06, I was loading 117's and 120's... didn't noticed a problem.

Ballistic coefficient and sectional density are the new Magnumitis. Don't worry, it will pass.

 

[LoonWulf]

I dunno, magnums have some serious down sides. High bc and sd bullets dont really.

I think that were gonna be seeing a trend of long sleek bullets from here on out.
While they may not be necessary for 90% of the medium game taken, they make hitting stuff at longer ranges easier, and deliver more energy on impact. Much like Magnums promised (and do), except your not getting kicked as bad, or wearing as heavily on your rifles barrel.
Target and competition shooters are also likely to take any advantage they can get.

Actually I think the BC and marketing, might just be enough to bring the 25s back.
With slick 120-130s at 3k or so, a short efficient (don't forget people love the E word) case could be the next big thing!.....i dunno, just a thought.


Honestly I find odd calibers and cartridges interesting. I think I mentioned it before, but I kinda wanna build a fast twist .257wby to see just how fast those Blackjacks will go......

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I've read of a wildcat .25 Souper that used .308 Winchester case. I honestly don't see a market spot between. 243 Winchester and various short action 6.5mm cartridges even if higher twist rate quarter bore barrels were readily and economically competitively available. It wasn't there before the 6.5 CM wave either, or it would alreadybe a SAAMI or CIP standard cartridge.

I'm happy with my. 25-06 Remington Interarms Mark X with 1:10 inches barrel rifling twist rate. There's enough factory ammo options out there for me, and I don't hunt varmints. It's been equally effective for whitetail and feral hogs in my hands with 110 - 120 grain bullets. I've been especially impressed with the results I've obtained with the 110 grain Nosler Accubond.

I've reconnected with an old colleague who's recently been using a .250 Savage rifle quite effectively for those same critters with the narrow factory ammo options available these days. He has no desire to go back to .30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag for his typical South Texas brush hunting. I found some boutique .250 Savage ammo with 120 grain Speer Boattail bullets at 2750 fps MV, and I figure I'll get some Hornady 117 grain RNSP bullets loaded up for him at a similar MV once he gets me plugged in to where he's been hunting recently. There's no need for svelte bullet profiles for quarter bore cartridges to be highly effective brush country hunting cartridges.

I agree with Loonwolf about the market being increasingly skewed toward sleeker, higher BC bullets with no sign of slowing down. Many of traditional RNSP bullets are no longer available as components from major manufacturers in small and medium bore diameters, and I doubt those will return even in limited production runs.

 

[jmr40]

I have nothing against the 25's, but there is already a crowded field with way more options than we need. For whatever reason we have very good options for good performance at 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, and 33 caliber, even some good 37 caliber bullets. The 23, 25, 27, 29, 31,32 and 35 calibers didn't get chosen, probably because they were never really popular even before the development of high BC bullets.

There is no reason someone couldn't develop a rifle and cartridge in 25 caliber that could do great, but in reality what would it do that a 24 or 26 caliber rifle won't do. It's hard for manufacturers to justify all of the work to develop a new rifle and cartridge unless it is going to sell to a lot of people. Most shooters can't decide between the great number of choices we already have.

 

[eastbank]

large doe shot with one of my two Remington 722,s in .257 R at about 150 yards with a 115 gr bullet at 2900 fps, dead right now. exit hole can be seen on the left side.

 

[skeeterfogger]

Have done just fine with standard available for 52 years. Only 3 one should have as matter of commonality are 7.62 x 39, 7.62 x 51, preferably in 308 win capable, and 5.56. Reasons are obvious.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I think 25-06 is the best of all of them. For some reason no one took the .308 and necked it down to .25. Might be because they necked up the 250 Savage to 308 and for some reason they decided to duplicate that cartridge with different cartridge dimensions and a different name.

As has been said, there are already way too many options. Spice of life my foot. If things were simpler, they would also be less expensive. Variety and options just don’t interest me much pertaining to tools. They just have to work. Women on the other hand....

 

[mcb]

Have done just fine with standard available for 52 years. Only 3 one should have as matter of commonality are 7.62 x 39, 7.62 x 51, preferably in 308 win capable, and 5.56. Reasons are obvious.

...
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

 

[Jim Rau]

And in an AR platform, the 25-45 Sharps! Check it out, you will be amazed at it's performance.

 

[Gtscotty]

I dunno, magnums have some serious down sides. High bc and sd bullets dont really.

I think that were gonna be seeing a trend of long sleek bullets from here on out.
While they may not be necessary for 90% of the medium game taken, they make hitting stuff at longer ranges easier, and deliver more energy on impact. Much like Magnums promised (and do), except your not getting kicked as bad, or wearing as heavily on your rifles barrel.
Target and competition shooters are also likely to take any advantage they can get.

Actually I think the BC and marketing, might just be enough to bring the 25s back.
With slick 120-130s at 3k or so, a short efficient (don't forget people love the E word) case could be the next big thing!.....i dunno, just a thought.


Honestly I find odd calibers and cartridges interesting. I think I mentioned it before, but I kinda wanna build a fast twist .257wby to see just how fast those Blackjacks will go......

I agree, the higher BC, more efficient cartridge trend is here to stay as the number of hunters dwindles compared to the number of shooters, and the average understanding of external ballistics improves.

I remember guys at a match a few years ago telling me that the .25 Creed with high BC bullets was going to be the next big thing for PRS, less recoil than 6.5, more visible impacts and misses at long range than 6mm. Doesn't seem to have panned out that way thus far, 6mm is still the king of the hill for that application.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Maybe it is because there are no factory rifles chambered for it and a huge marketing department to give it some luster.

Even though I have a 25-06, I prefer shooting my 223 and 6X47L. I started with 223 over 30 years ago and then a 6mm Remington. At the time, a guy that owned the local gunshop had a custom 257 that he raved about but I couldn't afford a custom back then, and there weren't any factory rifles in that caliber.

Today, there are so many offerings for .224 and .243 caliber bullets that I don't see a reason to add a .257 to the safe.

 

[LoonWulf]

while I don't know if there's still a place for them.....
I'd love to see a .257 (6.5x55, and 7x57 for that mater) given a 3.1" action, the .25-06 and .257wby given a faster twist, and a version of the CM case in .25

I'd play with at least one or two of those if they made them.
Firearms arnt just tools to me tho. wrenches, sockets, multimeters....lawnmowers... things like that are tools.
I own them to make the stuff I don't wanna do go faster, and/or not need to be done twice. Or build things I DO wanna play with.
Firearms are something I enjoy, so I'm willing to devote significantly more time to them, and tinker with nuances.
For what I do I could honestly get by with a .22lr if it were legal. I for sure could do fine with a .223 and/or .308....and truthfully so could most folks.
I'm very happy to have not settled, but that everyones decision to make.

 

[WisBorn]

I have owned 2 rifles in 25-06. I liked the performance of the cartridge on deer size game shooting a few whitetail deer with it in Wisconsin. A new 25 cal is not really needed. I would like to see a classic style rifle in 25-06 come out to add new life to the round. Remington came out with classics years ago and bought back life to rounds like 35 Whelen, 280 Rem and others.

 

[marksman13]

I like my 257 Weatherby Magnum a lot. I think my next hunting rifle will be a 257 Roberts.

 

[Offfhand]

Back when owning a .250/3000 was considered the stylish thing to do I had this one built on a Mauser '98 type action. Since the Mauser, and most other bolt actions, are too long for the stubby .25 Sav. cartridge this action was shortened by a full inch. Which was a rather impressive example of gunsmithing, and the results made the effort worthwhile. .

 

[MarshallDodge]

Back when owning a .250/3000 was considered the stylish thing to do I had this one built on a Mauser '98 type action. Since the Mauser, and most other bolt actions, are too long for the stubby .25 Sav. cartridge this action was shortened by a full inch. Which was a rather impressive example of gunsmithing, and the results made the effort worthwhile.View attachment 895039 View attachment 895040 View attachment 895041 .

That's a beautiful rifle!

 

[DocRock]

Back when owning a .250/3000 was considered the stylish thing to do I had this one built on a Mauser '98 type action. Since the Mauser, and most other bolt actions, are too long for the stubby .25 Sav. cartridge this action was shortened by a full inch. Which was a rather impressive example of gunsmithing, and the results made the effort worthwhile.View attachment 895039 View attachment 895040 View attachment 895041 .

Needed a NSFW warning! Wow, that's beautiful.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

A writeup on the .25 Souper (.25-08) cartridge.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.25-08+.25+Souper.html

I'm not a varminter. I really enjoy the performance my 24" 1:10 inches rifling twist rate barrel .25-06 Remington blue steel & walnut Interarms Mark X rifle so I honestly don't see anything to change with it. There's the Hornady ELD-X available as a high BC projectile but I've been using bonded bullets, and the 110 grainAccubond has reallyimpressedme with the field results I've obtained.

The only downside is this barrel length that lets the .25-06 Remington cartridge show its value isn't the most convenient for brush country stalking. So I have 22" barreled rifles in .243 Winchester and 7mm-08, and 20" barrel (full stock) rifles chambered in a variety of cartridges: .243 Winchester, .270 Winchester, 7X57mm, 7X64mm, and .30-06 Springfield to choose from for that purpose so I honestly just don't see a hunting driver for short action .257 diameter rifles which is where the most broad market for mass produced rifles and ammunition exists. But who knows what drive for market share might spring forth in the future. I never would have predicted the 6.5 CM creation, much less the broad 6.5 CM manufacturing capacity and hunting consumer sales we see today. <shrug>

I sent an email to Nosler a while back asking if there was a .257 Accubond Long Range bullet on the horizon with the .257 Hornady ELD-X being available in both factory loaded ammunition and as a component bullet. The response was not at this time, but the usual weasel words about not knowing what the future may hold.

 

[Captcurt]

I like my 257 Weatherby Magnum a lot. I think my next hunting rifle will be a 257 Roberts.

I have had both. The Roberts was in a Kimber hunter that I never found a load that it liked. I thought that it would be a perfect whitetail rifle but, I'm sorry, I can't have a gun that will not group less than 1 1/2". Not gonna stay in my house. Plus brass was hard to find. I had to buy factory ammo just to have brass.

The Weatherby was a Vanguard that shot 100gr Accubonds like a laser. Absolutely a death ray on whitetails. There again, brass was hard to find. I found factory ammo that was cheaper than brass. I may have to try a 25-06. At least it has brass and ammo that is cheap and available.