Poorly shooting rifle - my plan

[cdself]

I am getting back into rifles after some time away and I've run into a little problem with one of my first efforts out of the gate.

I bought a used G McMillan rifle in 280 remington with a 24" Shilen barrel a few months ago. It looks like it's in great shape and for what I paid, it should be a good back-up rifle. I personally mounted the rings and scope (lapped rings, torqued all fasteners, Leupold VX6 scope) and took it to the range. I also checked to be sure the stock was tightly attached.

The trigger was beautiful, but my groups were awful. My lever action 45/70 shoots as well as this thing.

Now I know I've only used one brand of mediocre quality factory ammunition (Rem Core Lokt 140's), but I've never had a rifle that shot so poorly. 5 shot groups at 100 yards were in the 3.5" range.

I have dug out my reloading equipment and I'm looking to load some custom ammo for this thing to see if I can get it to shoot better. I've used my Stoney Point gauge and found the lands at 3.370 OAL using Nosler 150 ballistic tip bullets (i've had these in my box for 15 years). I'm about to load some cartridges using 0 to 30 thousandths off the lands to see if it shoots better. I tested the Core-Lokt against my dummy round on the lands with a comparator and it looks like the Remmy ammo is jumping just over 80 thousandths to the lands. This seems relatively typical and probably wouldn't account for such poor groups.

I'd like to change the scope to remove that variable, but my other 30mm scopes have larger objectives than the Leupold and won't fit these rings and I hate to buy rings just to see if my scope is bad, but I couldn't sell this rifle today in good conscious today if I wanted to and I certainly wouldn't take it hunting. If my reloading efforts are not fruitful, I'll mount another scope on it to see if the Leupold is bouncing all over the place.

One other thing I noticed - the chamber on this rifle is pretty tight. The fired brass has rebounded such that I could reload this brass without ever touching a neck sizer. It's grown a few thousandths, but not enough so that I can seat a bullet with my hands. No signs of pressure and everything was great at the range other than the proximity of bullets to one another on the paper 100 yards away.

Any thoughts from experienced riflemen would be helpful and appreciated. Thanks. Chuck

 

[WestKentucky]

I have had guns hate ammo before. My .270 hates anything heavier than 150 gr. I started feeding it 130 gr exclusively and it does much better. Try varying your bullet weight when you start reloading, you may find that to be a huge player in accuracy

 

[Fremmer]

Certainly try additional brands & weights of ammo before you mess with that scope or anything else. And let somebody else try shooting it from a rest, too.

 

[cdself]

Thanks Western Kentucky. I don't know the twist rate of this barrel which makes it an even better reason to keep bullet weight in mind. If these 150's don't shoot, I'll buy some light for caliber bullets to hurl downrange.

 

[Don McDowell]

Some rifles just won't shoot some brands of ammo. Altho I'm old enough to remember the time when a 3.5 inch group at 100 yds wasn't bad, and more considered about average, 2 inches was the holy grail..
Might check to make sure the bolts that hold the action into the stock are tight and that there's no tight spots binding on the action or the barrel.
Going to take some load work to find what the rifle likes, and maybe the reason it got sold was because it didn't shoot worth a poop to begin with..

 

[cdself]

Thanks Fremmer. I'm working on that now...I just gotta see if I have powder to make some cartridges. Does gunpowder expire?? LOL

As for the shooter - I've been out of it for a while, but I've shot a bit in my life and I'd hope I can do better than 3 or 4" at 100 yards. For reference, I shot a scoped pistol in the same range session at about 1.75" groups. The rifle was butter - almost no recoil, good sight picture. It was a tad windy, but at 100 yards, that'll only account for a little of that variability.

 

[BigBore45]

I would take it to a gun smith and have him look at the rifling and throat especially. A Shilen barrel should shoot its bad ammo at 1"@100yds. you might have bought a gun with a "washed out" barrel. Also twist rate can be determined with a peace of tape and a good cleaning rod. another thing to check how the barrel life is, crony the ammo and it will usually get slower the more the barrel is warn out, if you would expect say 3000FPS and there coming out at 2650FPS and no pressure signs with a tight chamber, the barrel is likely bad.

 

[joem1945]

I bought a .223- 24" SS bull barrel upper complete with bolt and chg handle from a club member. I bought a lower and couldn't get it to shoot any groups. 6 to 16" gropups @ 100yds. I tried different bullet weights from 55 to 80, several different powders and uncountable various charges. I did inspect the crown with a strong glass. I was ready to saw it into little washers and decided to recrown it. When the cutting tool moved into the bore it grabbed on the right side badly and I thought that's it, trash time. Tried it at the range again and groups are lesst then 1". Also noted some damage to the firing pin and clevis pin. I think the old guy tried to pry out the firing pin and I have no idea what he could have done to the barrle. That took 2 years of fooling with it.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I'd try some 160-162gr bullets....

 

[kwg020]

It sounds like a copper filled barrel.

kwg

 

[BigBore45]

I bought a .223- 24" SS bull barrel upper complete with bolt and chg handle from a club member. I bought a lower and couldn't get it to shoot any groups. 6 to 16" gropups @ 100yds. I tried different bullet weights from 55 to 80, several different powders and uncountable various charges. I did inspect the crown with a strong glass. I was ready to saw it into little washers and decided to recrown it. When the cutting tool moved into the bore it grabbed on the right side badly and I thought that's it, trash time. Tried it at the range again and groups are lesst then 1". Also noted some damage to the firing pin and clevis pin. I think the old guy tried to pry out the firing pin and I have no idea what he could have done to the barrle. That took 2 years of fooling with it.

Also this, good idea. Have the gun smith check the crown. He will also see any copper fouling (though I wouldn't think a barrel of that quality would be)or any other problems. Shouldn't cost to much.

 

[Don McDowell]

though I wouldn't think a barrel of that quality would be)or any other problems

Lots of things could of been wrong with the barrels installation, it might not be square with the action, the reamer may not of been properly lined up true with the bore, and the crown could of been cut a bit lopsided... Lots of things that can screw up a good barrel.

 

[murf]

i vote copper-filled barrel, or a ding in the crown.

murf

 

[urbaneruralite]

Clean the barrel a few times. Copper and carbon can lay up in layers, so getting a barrel stripped can require several series of cleaning.

Also, re-check all bolts, screws on the rifle and mounts. Perhaps even mount a scope that is known to have no problems.

 

[LocoGringo]

Cheapest potential solutions first. Thoroughly clean the barrel. Find out the twist rate of the barrel. Then try different weights of ammo from different manufacturers (I personally don't trust Remington much these days). When you know the twist rate, you can better match the bullet to the twist rate for a good starting point for handloads. If none of the other ammo manufacturers work well and handloads don't do much better, you've probably got a problem with the rifle or scope.

If none of that works, it's time for a visit to the gunsmith.

 

[243winxb]

The new bullet/reloads should make an improvement. If the barrel is clean, scope good, bedding ok, rifle should shoot under 2" at least. "Used" rifles get traded fast if there not accurate. I hope you dont have one.

 

[d2wing]

I would,also,have the chamber cast t find out if has been reamed for a custom cartridge since it seems something is not right there, and as said it could be badly fouled.

 

[cdself]

I've cast a chamber myself once and I think I still have the stuff. That was a single shot and easy to get to the chamber. This being a bolt action will make the pour a little more "tricky". I'm going to take a real close look at the crown as well. I've looked at it, but not in minute detail . I used to have a jeweler's loop that I need to look for.

As for copper, I guess it's possible. I didn't do a deep cleaning when I got the rifle, but I have cleaned it diligently since. I'll let you guys know what comes of my research.

Sure - I'd like a 1MOA rifle, but I'll like i more if I make a 1MOA rifle out of a 4MOA rifle.

 

[witchhunter]

I would clean the bore and change scopes. Clean the bore, soak it in Hoppes and turn it barrel down overnight on a paper towel. If it turns blue, it's still dirty. Check your mounting screws for the scope and the action. If it is still bad, have it checked by a gunsmith, it might be a crown or have a bad barrel install. You can check twist with a rod and a tight patch and a tape measure.

 

[gamestalker]

I would check all the obvious things, action screws, scope mounting hardware, make sure the barrel is clean. I like to fill the barrel with Hopes, plug it, and let it soak over night. If it comes out all green looking the next morning, you may have found the problem.

Then I would start working up some loads, I have very little faith in factory ammunition, especially with a custom rig. That factory ammo is slopping all over the place in the chamber, so start with some fire formed brass and then see what it does. If it still won't shoot, the barrel might be shot out.

I have a Douglas barreled M98 with all the bells and whistles in 7 mag, it shoots super tight with my loads, but it's all over the place with factory ammo.

GS

 

[agtman]

I bought a used G McMillan rifle in 280 remington with a 24" Shilen barrel a few months ago. It looks like it's in great shape and for what I paid, it should be a good back-up rifle. * * * The trigger was beautiful, but my groups were awful. My lever action 45/70 shoots as well as this thing. * * * Any thoughts from experienced riflemen would be helpful and appreciated.

Won't debate some of the advice that's been given already, but just remember: some bolt rifles won't shoot better than 1.5 or 2 MOA no matter how much time or money you spend on custom parts or in gunsmithing services.

The default answer, at some point, is: "get rid of it." The previous owner already did that for a reason. Life's too short for inaccurate rifles - and the temptation they produced to fiddle with them just isn't, in the long run, worth it.

 

[Liberty1776]

If it were me I'd try my favorite Sierra 160 Spitzer boattail Game King and if that didn't shoot, I'd just move the gun along.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I'd try some 162gr Amaxs, some IMR 4831; around 48.5grs give or take .3, and see what ya got. The usual disclaimer to work your load up applies.

 

[cdself]

I looked very closely at crown and chamber today. With my naked eye, I can see crisp, clean rifling from the throat to the crown. Nothing looks strange about the crown either. I tried to take a pic, but it doesn't really show up well.

I took stock off completely and it's glass bedded. Looks like a pretty neat job with good support throughout.

I hope to get to the range on Saturday with hand loads. If I do, I'll let you know what happens.

 

[David4516]

My .280 is a run of the mill Ruger M77 MKII

It wears a Leupod VX1 3-9X scope

Right out of the box it shot pretty well. I use 160gr or 162gr bullets and IMR 4350 powder. If you can give this combo a try it's worked for me. Hope this is helpful