Possible Pietta 1851 Navy Type .36 Cal Cylinder Anomaly

[expat_alaska]

Thomas Leech and Charles Rigdon created a Confederate copy of a steel framed 1851 Navy .36 with a smooth cylinder with a part-octagon/part round barrel until about S/N ~1100 or so when the relationship dissolved. Charles Rigdon completed the 1500 pistol contract without the Colt-type hammer safety pins until he produced the same pistol with the 12 stop-slots cylinder with S/N 1501+ for many more pistols.

I want to create a Pietta Rigdon and Ansley .36 smooth cylinder with 12-stop slots. As far as I know no manufacturer offers a 12 stop-slot 1851 Navy .36 cylinder. I will have to rely on my neighbor machinist friend to do that with a spare cylinder, of which I have two.

I have several Pietta 1851 Navy Type .36 pistols, and all cylinders, both plain and engraved, have the safety pins. I recently ordered a Pietta .36 plain cylinder for the R & A project from VTI (#A344 on the plastic packaging) and it has the pins, and it cost a C-note. I guess I am just greedy or gullible.

Fast forward: I bought a Pietta .36 plain cylinder from a member here LNIB except for some very minor marks on both sides of the inside of the bolt stops (indicating a slightly large width, but only about .001", bolt) and a few minor marks on the cylinder ratchet where the hand catches it (same #A344 on the white paper box) for a very good price. I could not be more pleased with the condition.

Lo and behold! It has no safety pins and never had! I tried it in several pistols and it functions like new. This will be the one I use for the R&A project cylinder for the additional stop-slot cuts: no pins to remove. It was never even machined for them.

It appears to be of very recent manufacture, and it came in the original FAP white box with part number in the very oiled Pietta plastic bag.

I having been trying to get pics of the two cylinders side by side but the phone camera is not cooperating today. I will try to get pics but it may take a bit with my handheld digital. I will post them when I can. Trust me, the two cylinders differ, and it was an eye-opener to me.

My question: Does anyone have one or ever seen one on any Pietta 1851 Navy Type .36 pistol without the safety pins? Is this an anomaly, just a Friday cylinder when Guido forgot to do the pins?

I will entertain all responses.

Regards,

Jim

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Cool,
I for one would like to see the end result if you feel like sharing.

 

[expat_alaska]

OK, picture as promised. The "no-pins" cylinder left, the new "pins" cylinder right.

My observations:

The cylinder is probably not of very recent manufacture.

The nipples are different but may not be original.

No proof marks on the rear of the cylinder, but that may be because it left the factory before it missed a few steps in the process. It does have both Italian proof marks on the cylinder face (whereas the new cylinder has no proofs on the face).

No pins, and no marks for the machinist as to where they should be placed.

No FAP (Pietta) marks on the cylinder (but there are no Pietta marks on any other pistol "pins" cylinders I have from fully assembled Pietta pistols) as I see on the spare new "pins" cylinder.

The "no-pins" cylinder will need some cleaning up, but for $25 post-paid, I'll take the chance on it for the Rigdon and Ansley project.

 

[Fingers McGee]

I've got a .36 Cal 1851 US Marshal Model and 2 .44 Cal 1851 US Marshal models with no pins, and one .36 Cal 1861 US Marshal model that has pins. One L&R and one S&G with no pins. I also have an ASP/Lyman 1851 Navy with no pins

 

[expat_alaska]

I've got a .36 Cal 1851 US Marshal Model and 2 .44 Cal 1851 US Marshal models with no pins, and one .36 Cal 1861 US Marshal model that has pins. One L&R and one S&G with no pins. I also have an ASP/Lyman 1851 Navy with no pins

Fingers, I figured you would have some good personal info! Thank you, sir.

It sounds like none are Piettas.

I appreciate the reply.

Jim

 

[RCampb6131]

Jim,

I have three Pietta G&G's. Two were made in in 1973 and 1976 respectively, and do not have the cylinder pins. My G&G made in 2013 has the pins. Seems that older Pietta's came without the pins.

RC

 

[expat_alaska]

Jim,

I have three Pietta G&G's. Two were made in in 1973 and 1976 respectively, and do not have the cylinder pins. My G&G made in 2013 has the pins. Seems that older Pietta's came without the pins.

RC

RC, good to know. Are the no-pins cylinder proofmarks on the face of the cylinder? Just trying to determine if my no-pins cylinder is pre-CNC design.

Thanks in advance!

Jim

 

[Fingers McGee]

Fingers, I figured you would have some good personal info! Thank you, sir.

It sounds like none are Piettas.

I appreciate the reply.

Jim

They are all Pietas except for the Lyman.

Mfg dates are:
'36 1851 Marshal - no pins 1998
.36 1861 Marshal - w/pins 1990
.44 1851 Marshal - no pins 1998
.44 1851 Marshal - no pins 1996
.36 L&R - no pins - 1995
.36 G&G - no pins - 1989

 

[expat_alaska]

Fingers, duly noted.

 

[Tommygunn]

When I first got into BP shooting, Pietta 1860 Colt's were the only revolvers the company made with safety pins. 1851s did not. I think the 1851s started getting ..... "pinned" in the early 2000s. I still have the early Pietta 1860 from the early 90s with pins....but the way the hammer face and cylinder rear were contoured, the pins didn't engage. All my new Piettas have pins and they work.
Also, ASM revolvers from the 90s on had no pins.

 

[expat_alaska]

When I first got into BP shooting, Pietta 1860 Colt's were the only revolvers the company made with safety pins. 1851s did not. I think the 1851s started getting ..... "pinned" in the early 2000s. I still have the early Pietta 1860 from the early 90s with pins....but the way the hammer face and cylinder rear were contoured, the pins didn't engage. All my new Piettas have pins and they work.
Also, ASM revolvers from the 90s on had no pins.

I think the ~2000 CNC machined Piettas sealed the deal insofar as pins go. The more I hear from you folks, the more I think this is a pre-2000 cylinder. That's OK because it is the correct length and functions well in the newer 3 CNC Pietta 1851 Navy Type pistols. I have tried them, with about .001" clearance between the barrel forcing cone and the cylinder face with the wedge firmly inserted. Maybe I got lucky. The project is still a go if my machinist (who is not a gun guy) can duplicate the stop slots. Even if he cannot duplicate the approaches, I am OK with that. We'll see.

Thanks for the responses. I learn more every day.

Jim