Possibly Dangerous 686+ Problem!

[Sprout]

I just replaced the springs in my 686 with Wolff springs. Recently, I was dryfiring the gun and didn't always hear the distinctive "two clicks."

Upon examination, I realized that when I didn't hear the second click I could rotate the cylinder just a tad counter-clockwise, and it would click in place.

This really scared me, as it seems that the cylinder isn't always properly lining up. Is it possible that this is a result of replacing the trigger return spring? The mainspring? Has the timing gone bad and I just noticed it now?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[surfinUSA]

Why don't you just put the old springs back in and see if that cures the problem?

 

[wally]

Why'd you replace the springs?

If the gun goes bang! every time, there is nothing wrong with the springs!

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I'd agree with putting it back the way it was as a first step, if one spring was broken, replace it only.

--wally.

 

[Sprout]

Nope. Old springs back, second click more frequent, but it doesn't happen every time. Darn it!

I guess it's back to S&W.

I'd replaced the springs because a bunch of people here said that it vastly improved the already great trigger, so for $15 i had to try it.

THough if it wasn't the prings, which t doesn't appear to be, it's good that I found out before it damaged anything.

 

[4thHorseman]

Sprout, it sounds as if you did NOT put the spring back on, so the hand is forced forward to rotate the cylinder.
The spring is at the bottom of the hand. I don't know all the fancy names for parts, but the spring should always force the hand forward. When it does not, it will cause that problem. Use a small screw driver to place the spring over the hand lever at the bottom were the spring is.

 

[4thHorseman]

The book say it's in the back part of the trigger assembly.
It's a little spring that keeps the hand pushing forward.
Come to think of it, I did that once myself. The spring is internal in the trigger and hard to see.

 

[sgt127]

Try this. Unload gun. Open cylinder. Hold back the cylinder release, cock the pistol. With a little screwdriver, toothpick etc, try pushing up against the hand. The little part that is coming out of the breechface in the rectangular vertical slot. See if it has spring tension. We might diagnose this over the internet...

 

[Ala Dan]

Some great advice from the other guy's; but I would
like to add, I don't think the WOLFF spring replace-
ment has anything to do with the problem? My S&W
686's trigger pull was vastly improved with the use
of the $15 WOLFF spring kit! However, my 686-5 is
a six shot model.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Sprout]

Thanks everybody.

I did as sgt127 suggested. The hand starts forward. When I push against it, it pushes back and there is resistance, but it then stays back. When I drop the hammer, the hand returns forward.

Does this mean that I installed that little spring incorrectly? Man, I really hated putting that thing in.

Dan, I think that you're right. If I get it working I'll try the springs again.

I'd also noticed some lead on the yoke around the forcing code from before I'd taken the gun apart. Is this normal? OR was the timing going before I took it apart?

Thanks again, everybody! You guys are great!

 

[4thHorseman]

The hand is NOT supposed to stay back. On the hand, near the base, there is a 90 degree stud that the spring pushes on. If you move the hand to far back when it is dissassembled, the spring will become disengaged.
As for the Wolff Springs, the Wolff main spring that I put in hit on the the slide and the trigger return spring at 16 pounds did not have enough pressure for the trigger to return to normal 100 percent of the time. I had to take mine out and replace it with the orginal springs. Just FYI.
Oh, one more tid bit of information. Trying to get the trigger return spring into the slide may be easier if you get a rod or drill bit slightly smaller than the hole in the slide. Push on the trigger return spring until goes into the slide, then slip the slide past the stud with the trigger return spring in it.
Try this approach.

 

[sgt127]

If the hand is not popping back up properly, its either got gunk jamming it or, you got the little spring in wrong. Look at the attached diagram. This is the spring we are talking about. I'm not sure how you got it out of place, but, its an easy fix.
If you press the trigger, slowly, the cylinder should make that last click just before the hammer falls. If its not the hand spring out of place, the hand or extractor star may be worn. Needs a smith or a trip back to Springfield.

 

[Stainz]

I have replaced all of my Wolff return springs with the OEM's after my 625 had timing problems in rapid shooting (Steel plate competition... at which I really slurp anyhow!). My 625 and 6" 66 both have Wolff reduced power hammer leaf springs now - and see only a diet of Federal-primed homebrew ammo. My HD/PD/CCW all have OEM springs for reliably popping commercial protection ammo.

That trigger return spring is important - especially in rapid fire. If it is a bit slow in returning the trigger - or too short - and you 'pull' too soon, you have a problem. The three I removed from my revolvers were all shorter than the OEM - they started out longer! I believe that S&W really does know what they are doing, and those OEM springs aren't so bad after all. The reduced power leaf appreciably reduces DA pull, just as unscrewing the strain screw (Always keep it tight!) - but will not reliably pop all primers.

When you get your timing problem corrected, try just that leaf spring swap with your ammo. If it is 100% reliable, fantastic! Otherwise, try some Federal ammo... You can do more to smooth a new S&W revolver by clean/lube, dry/live fire, clean/lube than most realize. The wearing in of the rubbing surfaces significantly reduces trigger pull - and makes it much smoother...try it!

Stainz