Post Civil War handgun ammunition....

[BobWright]

While folks hereabouts recently bemoaned the Army quartermasters in the issue of .45 Colt vs. .45 Army (.45 S&W) ammunition, consider these headaches:





The US Army had the Remington revolvers, which had been converted to cartridges and took the .44 Colt cartridge. In addition, there were Colt Model 1860 Army revolvers that were cartridge conversions and took the .44 Colt cartridge. Also in use was the Remington rolling block Model 1871 in .50 Remington caliber. Then the Army adopted the Colt Model 1873 in .45 caliber, and then approved the Smith & Wesson Schofield Model.

Was there any possibility of getting the wrong ammunition shipped, knowing the usual US Army attention to detail?

Of further interest, is that the Army continued to use inside priming up until around 1882 ~ 1884. While commercial ammunition had been using a type of Boxer primer for years, the Army did not consider this priming method sufficiently waterproof for military issue.

Bob Wright

 

[BigBore44]

Well now that’s interesting. Talk about a headache. And I think the answer to your question is an absolute yes. No wonder the military went to standardized cartridges and calibers.

 

[UncleEd]

Kudos to you, Mr. Wright.

An interesting lesson from what some think
of as a "simpler time."

 

[.455_Hunter]

If you think that is bad, the current US military is tracking right on the heels of WWII Japan and Italy with a menagerie of rifle and MG calibers, especially for the "special" category of combat personnel. By 1885, we had .45 Revolver, .45-55 Carbine and .45-70 Rifle / Gatling for pretty much all official usage.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

That .50 Remington has me thinking about a modern Webley action designed around .50GI in moon clips...

I wonder if anyone has done a .50GIAR?

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Hi Bob

I think you are mistaken about the Remington Cap & Ball revolvers that were converted to cartridges.

In their 1966 book Smith & Wesson, 1857 -1945 by Robert Neal and Roy Jinks, the authors give the details of the 1858 Remington Cap & Ball conversions to fire cartridges. The revolvers were modified at the Remington factory in Ilion NY. They were converted from six shot 44 caliber Cap & Ball revolvers to five shot revolvers chambered for a 46 Rim Fire cartridge. Although the work was done by Remington in their factory, permission to convert them had to be granted by Smith and Wesson, who still controlled the Rollin White patent for revolvers with chambers bored through to accept cartridges. Neal and Jinks state that the work was done between September of 1868 and April of 1869.A total of 4,574 revolvers were converted. Smith and Wesson was paid a royalty of $1.00 for each revolver converted, because they controlled the patent. If S&W had not granted permission to use the patent they controlled, and Remington had gone ahead and converted them, old Daniel Wesson would probably have sued the pants off of them. He was like that.

The 1858 Remington was converted to fire cartridges by many independent gunsmiths. I do not know the details of all those conversions, most of them were custom jobs. But the large quantity of Remington revolvers converted ro fire cartridges were converted to 46 Rim Fire five shooters.

 

[BobWright]

Hi Bob

I think you are mistaken about the Remington Cap & Ball revolvers that were converted to cartridges.

In their 1966 book Smith & Wesson, 1857 -1945 by Robert Neal and Roy Jinks, the authors give the details of the 1858 Remington Cap & Ball conversions to fire cartridges. The revolvers were modified at the Remington factory in Ilion NY. They were converted from six shot 44 caliber Cap & Ball revolvers to five shot revolvers chambered for a 46 Rim Fire cartridge. Although the work was done by Remington in their factory, permission to convert them had to be granted by Smith and Wesson, who still controlled the Rollin White patent for revolvers with chambers bored through to accept cartridges. Neal and Jinks state that the work was done between September of 1868 and April of 1869.A total of 4,574 revolvers were converted. Smith and Wesson was paid a royalty of $1.00 for each revolver converted, because they controlled the patent. If S&W had not granted permission to use the patent they controlled, and Remington had gone ahead and converted them, old Daniel Wesson would probably have sued the pants off of them. He was like that.

The 1858 Remington was converted to fire cartridges by many independent gunsmiths. I do not know the details of all those conversions, most of them were custom jobs. But the large quantity of Remington revolvers converted ro fire cartridges were converted to 46 Rim Fire five shooters.

Driftwood,

Charles Suydam, in his book "U.S. Cartrdges And Their Handguns" on page 66 shows a replica of packet label that reads:

"12 "Martin Cartridges"
for
COLT'S & REMINGTON'S
ARMY REVOLVER

Calibre .44:
Powder 30 grains
Bullet 225 grains

FRANKFORD ARSENAL, PA.
APRIL 1871

Patened march 28, 1869
February 14, 1871"

The text says, in part: "The record of the appearance of center fire Remington New Model Army revolver conversions at Frankford or in the hands of troops is not clear; it may well be that some were made early in 1871 or even late 1870."

Also I remember reading of the use of such revolvers in an old issue of a publication called "The Gun Report" which I no longer have.


Bob Wright

P.S. I said he shows a "replica" of the label. Actually he also shows the original label, but it is hard to read in the photograph, he has printed a clarification.

And, from another source:

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

"The record of the appearance of center fire Remington

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They were converted from six shot 44 caliber Cap & Ball revolvers to five shot revolvers chambered for a 46 Rim Fire cartridge.

---
It is possible for both statements to be correct.