Powder 231 and HP-38 !!!!
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Yes, they are the same powder per Hodgdon, but different lot #'s can vary a little bit in density. You have to weigh the charges to make sure you are throwing the correct amount, regardless of whether it is labeled as W-231 or HP-38.
splattergun
Member
According to Lee's volume density chart, HP38 has a density factor of .09260. W231 is .09310. to use these factors, you multiply your desired charge weight by the density factor, giving you the volume in cubic centimeters (CC).
So, if you want to find the volume measurement for 5 grains of either powder the math would be 5 X .09260= .463. So slightly less than a .5 CC Lee dipper. or, 5 X .09310=- .4655. also a short hair less than a .5 CC dipper.
Not exactly the same, but close enough for horseshoes. Lee's data is reputed to be on the light side for safety's sake, but their density conversions are said to be inaccurate, so take warning and check your dipper against a scale.
FWIW, I have used a few volume conversions with mixed results downrange. My 9mm likes a load developed using this method, but I tweeked it with a scale and now it likes it even better.
Happy dipping!
So, if you want to find the volume measurement for 5 grains of either powder the math would be 5 X .09260= .463. So slightly less than a .5 CC Lee dipper. or, 5 X .09310=- .4655. also a short hair less than a .5 CC dipper.
Not exactly the same, but close enough for horseshoes. Lee's data is reputed to be on the light side for safety's sake, but their density conversions are said to be inaccurate, so take warning and check your dipper against a scale.
FWIW, I have used a few volume conversions with mixed results downrange. My 9mm likes a load developed using this method, but I tweeked it with a scale and now it likes it even better.
Happy dipping!
dragon813gt
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Question is, how old is Lee's data? They really are the same powder now. I have gotten a jug with a Hodgdon label overtop of a Winchester label. No matter what you still need to weigh the charge.
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BullfrogKen
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Unless I was near max in my load, I'd consider them "close enough".
My powder measures have micrometer adjusters on them and I record the setting at the end of each each reloading session. It allows me to get back to the setting the next time I load that cartridge. But, I almost always have to tweak the adjustment at the next session to get the weight of the charge right. This is within the same jug of powder.
So, as said, you have to confirm the weight of the powder charge thrown at every session.
Now that Hodgdon has said the HP38 and W231 are the same powder, current published data can be interchanged safely
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Why do we have to go through this every few weeks? Hodgdon uses the ST. Mark's Plant to supply both W231 and HP-38. According to St. Mark's they come out of THE SAME EXACT VAT! They fill 500,000 1lb jugs and put either the W231 or HP-38 label on them. (and a Blue cap on W231 instead of Black) I can't for the life of me understand why some refuses to believe the distributor and the manufacturer, especially in today's Litigious society.
USSR
Member
The General Dynamics St. Marks powder plant produces the powder and labels it Winchester 231. They also sell the very same powder to Hodgdon, who then packages it and labels it as Hodgdon HP-38. Same powder, different labels.
Don
Don
Jim Watson
Member
Hodgdon has always bought powder from outside sources. Their "Spherical" powders have always come out of the Ball powder plants originally built by Olin-Winchester, now owned by General Dynamics and located in St Marks, FL.
HP38 always was kinda-sorta W231 but until Hodgdon got the Winchester distributorship, they did not go to the trouble to get matching lots. Some old data shows significant differences. My last little bit of 231 in the old round metal can is noticeably slower than recent production HP38.
Now, though, Hodgdon distributes both their own brand and Winchester brand so it makes sense for powders of the same manufacturing specification to be kept exactly the same, no difference but the labels. Of course they also continue established Hodgdon and Winchester powders that don't have exact equivalents in both brand lineups.
HP38 always was kinda-sorta W231 but until Hodgdon got the Winchester distributorship, they did not go to the trouble to get matching lots. Some old data shows significant differences. My last little bit of 231 in the old round metal can is noticeably slower than recent production HP38.
Now, though, Hodgdon distributes both their own brand and Winchester brand so it makes sense for powders of the same manufacturing specification to be kept exactly the same, no difference but the labels. Of course they also continue established Hodgdon and Winchester powders that don't have exact equivalents in both brand lineups.
splattergun
Member
must have ben different batches for Lee's density factors to be slightly different. But my point wasn't the MINOR difference, but to point out that volume is less precise than weight.
Not all on this forum know so much yet that they know the name of the vat the powder comes from. That's why questions are asked.
'scuse me now. I'm going to go shopping for some decaf.
I think it says somewhere in Lee's manual about the volume measuriing density may vary from canister to canister of the same powder. I think Lee even explains how to determine VMD for any powder. He is a fart smeller I mean a smart feller...
One should not depend on manufacturers listed data for powder charges for their bushings. Only weighing the powder drops will provide the actual drop of your bushing. Remeber manufacturers tolerances are not included in their published values and I have found that with most shotshell bushing the pub;lished data is on the low side.
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