Powder and load that won’t meter right

[tmd16556]

I’ve been messing around with some of my early pandemic impulse buy powders and trying to find a good use for the 14 oz of 700x I bought. I was hoping it could make a cleaner alternative for Unique in 9mm Makarov and 9mm Luger.

It was the most frustrating process to get it to meter. It worked ok at Makarov volumes but once I got over 4.0gr it wouldn’t meter consistently. I had to check weigh each to keep them from over max listed loads. I used my Hornady Pacific measure which normally works fine with Unique which has a similar flake size.

I decided not to use 700x for range loads because of this. It’s too much trouble to throw charges and I have an ok load in Power Pistol for 9x19 already. Testing the loads today showed something that was ok but not really that great it was less sooty than Unique and about the same as Power Pistol but harder to load in 9x19.

I suppose the rest of the bottle of 700x has a future in 12 ga target loads.

Has anyone else ever had a powder and charge that just won’t work in your measure?

 

[noylj]

You can "tap, tap" metering assembly on up and down stroke
You can tap the measures with a screwdriver handle after it returns to powder fill position
You can tape aquarium pump or some sort of vibrator to measure
You can get a powder dispenser

 

[HowieG]

I’ve been messing around with some of my early pandemic impulse buy powders and trying to find a good use for the 14 oz of 700x I bought. I was hoping it could make a cleaner alternative for Unique in 9mm Makarov and 9mm Luger.

It was the most frustrating process to get it to meter. It worked ok at Makarov volumes but once I got over 4.0gr it wouldn’t meter consistently. I had to check weigh each to keep them from over max listed loads. I used my Hornady Pacific measure which normally works fine with Unique which has a similar flake size.

I decided not to use 700x for range loads because of this. It’s too much trouble to throw charges and I have an ok load in Power Pistol for 9x19 already. Testing the loads today showed something that was ok but not really that great it was less sooty than Unique and about the same as Power Pistol but harder to load in 9x19.

I suppose the rest of the bottle of 700x has a future in 12 ga target loads.

Has anyone else ever had a powder and charge that just won’t work in your measure?

I have an old Redding that some of the really fine stuff won't work in. Surprisingly, that same stuff meters okay in a cheapo Lee Perfect Measure, which is why I keep the thing. Plastic with a polymer wiper does the trick.

If things get too tough, my ChargeMaster will weigh anything if you have the time.

 

[FROGO207]

Yeah tap or vibrate to settle the charge. Do whatever you do EXACTLY the same every time and your drops
will be more accurate. For 700X I have made custom scoops from old brass casings and copper electrical wire. It works for my 4.5 grain 45 ACP loads. I have 4 kegs to use up still. Never used it in 9MM though.

 

[Archie]

Historically - at least my experience and reading experiences of others - finer grain (smaller and rounder) measure through a device much more uniform. That is, 'ball' or 'spherical' powders are easier to handle - on this issue - than IMR type 'stick' powders. Generally the 'flake' nature of Unique has a reputation for being 'difficult' to obtain repeatable weights in a powder measure.

I find it comes down to a percentage difference. Half a grain in a load of Bullseye (for example) in a load of three grains is about 17%. Half a grain in a load of 50 grains of IMR anything is 1%.
I use Unique in several handgun loads and find that a bit of variance really doesn't affect accuracy all that much. Of course, precision bullseye shooting is more demanding than plinking, usually.

I have also found that 'perfect' powder charges are really quite unneeded when other factors are considered.

What sort of apparatus - measuring device - do you currently use?

 

[cfullgraf]

700-X is my main powder for 45 ACP 230 RN ammunition. As FROGO207 said, you have to operate the powder measure exactly the same way every time. Even so, I find the charges have a little more variability than with fine grain powder but it does not show up when shooting.

I've used 700-X in 380 ACP and 44 Special as well and probably a few other lower pressure cartridges.

I do not think I have ever loaded 700-X in 9x19. In the early days of my reloading journey (1980's), I'd save my 700-X for 45 ACP, it came in 8 oz tins in those days. Since then, I've found other powders I like for 9x19. Granted, these times are trying at best and you sometimes have to use what you can find.

Hodgdon does have data for 700-X in 9x19

700-X does not shoot any cleaner than Unique anyway.

 

[Charlie98]

I use Unique in several handgun loads and find that a bit of variance really doesn't affect accuracy all that much.

I have also found that 'perfect' powder charges are really quite unneeded when other factors are considered.

That's one of the things I really like about Unique. Many complain about it's poor metering... although I don't seem to have that problem as I have incorporated a 'settling tap' while actuating my Hornady's throw handle, but I've noticed in most applications it doesn't really matter when you look at the holes in the paper. The one place I don't fool around too much is with the 9mm... the pesky small volume, high pressure cartridge. In my early days of loading, Back Home, Years Ago, I got into pressure troubles with Unique and the 9mm... that I eventually traced to poor powder measuring at max charge. Since then I've found better powders for the 9mm... although I still use Unique, just not at the edge of load data.

If you are having problems metering 700-x in the 9mm, just stow it for later and use a better powder.

I don't know if I really use a powder that doesn't drop well from my Hornady drop, to include IMR rifle powders. As Archie mentions, a .5grn difference in drop weight only translates to a 1% difference... not enough to make a difference in my rifle cartridges assembled on the progressive, and is easily inside the tolerances of lot-to-lot powder variations, etc. I do measure individual charges on the trusty 5-0-5 for anything more than blasting ammos, however...

 

[deadeye dick]

On my Lee turret i use it single stage. I load the powder in the auto disc when i start decapping so the powder will settle when i'm ready to drop the powder.

 

[JimKirk]

If you think 700x is fun ....try 800x!!!

 

[Zendude]

700-X does seem to have a mind of its own. Using it in the Lee autodisk, I have found 700X likes some charge weights more than others.

Maybe it’s time to get the revolver out of the safe. 700-X makes nice 38 Special loads.

 

[markr6754]

I’ve had no issues with 700-X. Love this powder. Found 8lb jug just after things got tight, found recipes for everything I load in the store copy Sierra load book, though I bought the new edition and 700-X is totally absent. Went back and took pics of all the old pages.

My nemesis powder is Universal. I bought 16 pounds of it the price was stupid cheap. Instant regret as it wouldn’t drop in my Hornady LNL powder dispenser, and it wouldn’t trickle at all. Thankfully, I picked up a Frankford Arsenal Intellidropper and it’ll dispense any and all powders without issue.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

700X was the 1st powder i used. I was glad to see the bottom of the bottle. Yeah it metered not very well at all.

 

[tmd16556]

I was reviewing my loads again today. 700x did well in the lighter Makarov loads, but was starting to show potential pressure signs in 9x19. My loads were using the range given in the Speer 14th edition. Primers were starting to flatten with my Hi Power, although they showed no signs in my Shield, so more evidence primer shape is an unreliable indicator.

The 9x19 loads start getting close to compressed too since it’s so bulky. It seems like more trouble than it’s worth for 9x19. My Hi Power likes a mild load of Unique and the Shield works with a load of Power Pistol. It was worth the experiment and I can always use the 700x in shotgun loads and save my Unique. Once things settle down I’ll just get an 8 lb jug of Unique and be set for a while. It looks dirty but cleans up really easily and does 90% of what I want to do just fine. I’ve never had issues with charges from my measure (an older Hornady pacific deluxe, the precursor to the lock and load) with Unique either.

I have used 800x. I used it in my first pistol loads in 38 special with Lee dippers. It’s my go to 20 gauge field load powder. Those are big flakes, but it’s fairly forgiving when your loads are in the 18-20 grain range.

 

[Thomasss]

Alliant has the same problem with Red Dot. About 15 years ago Alliant took Red Dot out of the reloading manual for 9mm because it "was too fluffy and did not meter well in most reloaders". I contacted Alliant six years ago and they gave the current load for 125 grn. bullets only after I admitted that I weigh all my loads on a single stage press. I wonder if you are experiencing the same problem but with a diff. Mfr.

 

[Walkalong]

Like Unique, 700X shoots better than it measures.

 

[twarr1]

My standard 9mm range load is 4.2 gn of 700X using the 115 gn RMR jacketed bullet. I keep the spherical powders for more demanding loads and other calibers. The 700X meters pretty consistent in my Ideal 55 powder measure, within a tenth of a grain. I just keep the hopper between 1/3 and 1/2 full and try to be consistent with throws. I don’t use the gimmicky knocker.
I like that it’s very clean burning in this load, and 700X is one of the last propellants to disappear in a drought. Plus, it’s relatively inexpensive.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I was reviewing my loads again today. 700x did well in the lighter Makarov loads, but was starting to show potential pressure signs in 9x19. My loads were using the range given in the Speer 14th edition. Primers were starting to flatten with my Hi Power, although they showed no signs in my Shield, so more evidence primer shape is an unreliable indicator.

The 9x19 loads start getting close to compressed too since it’s so bulky. It seems like more trouble than it’s worth for 9x19. My Hi Power likes a mild load of Unique and the Shield works with a load of Power Pistol. It was worth the experiment and I can always use the 700x in shotgun loads and save my Unique. Once things settle down I’ll just get an 8 lb jug of Unique and be set for a while. It looks dirty but cleans up really easily and does 90% of what I want to do just fine. I’ve never had issues with charges from my measure (an older Hornady pacific deluxe, the precursor to the lock and load) with Unique either.

I have used 800x. I used it in my first pistol loads in 38 special with Lee dippers. It’s my go to 20 gauge field load powder. Those are big flakes, but it’s fairly forgiving when your loads are in the 18-20 grain range.

If you decide to run it again. What the others suggested works. I've also come to like running the middle of the charge range if I'm throwing a flake powder.
After doing that for a while. I found a set of Lee dippers work very well with 700x,800x, and blue dot.