Metering 700X

[Ocaladude]

Hey Guys, didn't find what I was looking for with the search function. I really like 4.5 grains of 700X under a 230 in 45 ACP. Since it meters so inconsistently in a Lee Perfect powder measure, I previously dipped and weighted each charge. I am now loading 45 ACP on a Dillon SDB, does anyone have experience with 700X thru a Dillon powder measure? I should be outta work in time to try it tomorrow, but always learn a ton from asking you guys about you're experiences. Thanks! Vann

 

[noylj]

Of the measures I have used, the ranking of most consistent throw to least consistent throw is:
1) Lee PPM
2) Hornady L-N-L
3) Lee Pro Auto-Disk
4) Dillon

So, if you can't get consistency from the PPM, I doubt you'll get any better from the Dillon.

You have probably done all this (as 700X and 800X are generally regarded as the hardest powders to meter consistently), but:
1) wash all metal parts with Hornady One-Shot Cleander and Dry Lube and don't wipe off
2) wash all plastic parts with the Hornady One-Shot as above or use warm soapy water. Again, do not wipe or rinse off and let air-dry
3) Run a hopper full of graphitized powder (Unique, Bullseye, etc.) through the measure or simply pour in some powdered graphite and meter it. Do NOT clean.
4) When you add powder to the hopper, shake the hopper a few seconds to settle the powder. In fact, you can get a vibrator or aquarium pump to constantly vibrate the hopper to settle the powder.
5) Always throw at least 10 charges (and return powder to hopper) before ever weighing a charge. Every time you adjust the metering assembly, throw at least 3 charges before you ever weigh a charge.
6) Better than another measure is to buy a powder dispenser and be done with it. My RCBS ChargeMaster keeps up with my Dillon 1050s quite well and it only ever throws 0.1gn over target weight occasionally (which is better than any powder measure can do and you can wet a finger and remove a couple of kernels and get the target weight if you are OCD), and has never thrown over by more than 0.1gn and never thrown under period.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Unfortunately 700x just does not meter well in any powder measure I have heard of. It's one of the reasons I don't use it. Sorry I cant help, I posted just so you don't know you're alone.

 

[SwaneeSR]

I have no trouble with 700x in my 550b. I throw charges until I get 8-10 in a row that are all the same weight to the tenth of a grain X.Xgr and begin loading. I load 9mm and .40SW with 700X, it is one of my favorite powders.

That is not the case with 800X, larger flakes and trouble. I stopped loading pistol with it even during the Great Powder Shortage and used it up on my MEC shotshell reloader. Although I will admit that even though the 800X measured horribly, it performed ok in pistol rounds.

You will have no trouble metering 700X. Be consistent in your operation of the press and throw enough loads until you get dialed in and you will find it meters fine.

Swanee


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[cfullgraf]

I've been loading 700-X in 45 ACP for 30 or so years.

I currently load 45 ACP with 700-X on A Dillon SDB. Meters just fine, plus/minus a tenth of grain.

I've used A Redding 10-X and an RCBS Little Dandy in the past with similar results using 700-X.

I usually throw 15 or 20 charges or so when getting started before weighing a charge. Then, once I get four or five good charges in a row, I start loading.

Consistency of operation of the powder measure is key to getting consistent charges with flake powders, even when operating on a progressive.

I had a Lee PPM 20 years or so ago and could never get it to throw anything consistently. Many folks have had better luck with it than I.

 

[RugerBob]

I use 700x for 45acp and use the Lee PPM. I tap the side twice at top and bottom stroke. Just a habit now. Always within 1/10th of what I set it for. Like it so much I have 3 Lee PPM's set up on my bench.

 

[mr wack]

that's what I do with my uniflow , tap it a couple of time to settle the powder in it's measured depth and when I drop the powder I always "double drop" meaning cycle the handle twice .
I'm happy with the results of my OCB ,

 

[Ocaladude]

Thanks for the inputs, I'll give it a try. Is it best to keep the reservoir on the full side to keep a steady weight pressing down? vann

 

[Mauser69]

This subject comes up regularly, and lots of people like to repeat ugly things about certain flake powders - sometimes I wonder just how much experience they really have?

I use a lot of 700-X, been using it regularly since the 70s - really like it in .38 and .44 Spl, and have decent results with .40 S&W. I have never used anything dillon. For powder measures, I use both an RCBS Du-O-Measure from the 70s, and three different Lee Auto-Disk measures. ALL throw 700-X charges down to 3.0 grains very consistently (all within +/- 0.1g). Below 3.0 grains it can get a bit ify: e.g., the small disc cavity needed for 2.2 grains of 700-X in a Lee Auto-Disk produces totally unacceptable results. Although I have had good results with 2.5g charges, I now consider 3.0g the lower limit for this powder with my powder measures unless I weigh each charge.

All of my powder measures are always mounted directly to the press with the expander die, so they get regular jostling with each stroke of the handle - I am certain this helps the consistency. I also get very good results with 800-X in .357 Magnum level loads. 800-X is a very large flake powder (larger than 700-X and Unique); therefore, it is likely to have a lower limit for measuring consistency considerably higher than 700-X, but I have not yet explored that. I have only recently started working with 800-X, and I like it. For charges between 8-12 grains, my Lee Pro Auto-Disk throws all charges within +/- 0.1 grain (tests done by weighing every thrown charge for several hundred loads).

IMHO, anyone who cannot get decent consistency with 700-X above 3.0 grains either has a problem with their equipment or very poor technique. I do think that ALL powder measures should have a baffle to reduce or eliminate the variability caused by the weight of the powder in the hopper - this is critical to good csistency.

 

[243winxb]

My Dillon RL450 and Ohaus Du-O-Measure dont have a problem with 700X, other than a variation of a few tenth of a grain. http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/library/Firearms and Reloading/Dillon RL-450 Manual

 

[Walkalong]

My 10X meters 700X decently, +/- .2, but it shoots well. I quit worrying about how 700X metered decades ago. Results on target were great.

 

[ljnowell]

My 10X meters 700X decently, +/- .2, but it shoots well. I quit worrying about how 700X metered decades ago. Results on target were great.

EXACTLY!! I came here asked years ago(probably 8 or so) what everyone thought about 700x in a 45 ACP as it had been recommended by some old school bullseye guys to me. Most people here had never heard of using it for that and discouraged it.

After experimenting with it I found that .2 was about as consistent as I could manage, but it didn't matter. I was loading 200 grain SWC and shooting for 4.6 grains. Some were 4.4 and some where 4.8 but you couldn't tell the difference and they shot very well.


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[Hondo 60]

Yes, I have experience with a Dillon PM & 700X.

ICK!!!!

I've had almost a pound of 700x for about a year.
I have 3 PMs - a Lee Pro Auto Disk, a Dillon & an RCBS Uniflow.
None of 'em measure it worth a darn.

I've heard that larger drops are supposed to work well.
But I haven't seen a recipe that uses a larger charge.

Good Luck!

 

[entropy]

While 700x is a great powder for .45 ACP, it doesn't meter well, as has been attested to. (My knowledge here is somewhat secondhand. I use Lee dippers and a 505 to do my charging for a single stage RCBS. I have several friends who have Dillons, and they tend towards AA#2, AA#5, CFE, & HP-38.) But one of them did use 700x when the rest of the pistol powders were scarce, and while the charges did vary a little, about like walkalong and ljnowell found, they shot well enough for his IPSC practice.

Ironically, even though I hand throw every charge, my favorite powder for .45 ACP is AA#5.

Hondo-If I weren't on the other side of the state, I'd take that 700X off your hands. Not worth sending it or meeting mid-state, though. I used to fish out of Manitowoc a lot back in the day.

 

[Handloader109]

Ya'lls meters sure must be broken. My Dillon powder measure on my 650xl meters 700X at 2.7gr for my 9mm 147gr loads to within way less than a tenth of a gr variance. I think it meters it as well as any other powder I have used.

 

[Ocaladude]

Thanks again to all. "I quit worrying about how 700X metered decades ago. Results on target were great." Maybe it's me with the Lee Perfect but I had some drops in the 2.5 to 2.8 range when trying for 4.5. I'm going to try what Noylj mentioned to run the LPPM but will try the Dillon as soon as yard work is done and the "boss" is happy. Seriously, thanks for all the feedback!

 

[Jim Watson]

I got an occasional one grain drop of 700X when trying to load .38 Special in my old CH Autochamp and 9mm in Dillon 550.
Back in the Autochamp era, I gave up and went to W231.
I persisted during Panic I and got good delivery with a vibrator (aquarium air pump) on the Dillon powder measure.

I don't see much scope for "technique" operating the powder measure on a progressive loader.

 

[Walkalong]

Ya'lls meters sure must be broken. My Dillon powder measure on my 650xl meters 700X at 2.7gr for my 9mm 147gr loads to within way less than a tenth of a gr variance. I think it meters it as well as any other powder I have used.

Don't sell that measure.

 

[ljnowell]

Ya'lls meters sure must be broken. My Dillon powder measure on my 650xl meters 700X at 2.7gr for my 9mm 147gr loads to within way less than a tenth of a gr variance. I think it meters it as well as any other powder I have used.

I'm not going to call anyone a liar, but I can promise you that you are the only one in the world.




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[cfullgraf]

I load 380 ACP with 2.7 grains of 700-X on my Dillon SDB and get plus/minus 0.1 grain or better.

I do have the micro charge bar in the powder measure.

 

[roval]

Same experience as Swaneesr, dillon 550b and 45 acp 230 gn. There are even sessions where all my checks show tbe same 4.7 gr charge thrown without any variation.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Sounds like you need a baffle for your measure. With a positioned baffle in my Uniflow I get +/- .1 gr. with 800-X, which meters far worse. You can buy one for a few bucks, but you can make them from a pop can for free.
Powder baffle template

 

[kerreckt]

My Dillon 450 and 550B powder measure drop 700x within .2grains. That is close enough for my purposes.

 

[gwpercle]

700X meters just fine from my Lyman 55 measure. Adjust the three slides to create a deep narrow straight sided cavity , keep the hopper filled at least halfway and operate it with consistency.

Gary

 

[lpsharp88]

700-X is what I learned on. I love using it in my 9mm loads, and my Uniflow throws 3.5gr +/- .1gr consistently. I also use a powder baffle in my Uniflow, don't know if it helps a lot or not honestly.