Powder coating cast bullets

[bersaguy]

Does anyone have any experience and recommendations for powder coating cast bullets? I have completed my first cast bullets, I have the .358 sizing die on order and would like to coat these, but not sure which powder to coat them with. Would like to use a simple shake and bake method with a thrift store toster oven. I have searched the cast boolits forum....which seems to be the go to source of info for all things casting, but it's a very difficult site to search and find useable info. I'm open to traditional lube, but would be relegated to pan lubing as a lubrisizer is outside the scope of my budget at the moment. So I figure PC may be the way to go. Complete noob to casting so any experience would be welcome. Loading 158gn from a Lee mold (traditional lube groove round nose flat point) for use in 357 magnum 4in Ruger Security six.

 

[jmorris]

I have tried lots of stuff in the past but there are some methods people have come up with since I quit looking for something better.

I powder coated a little then tried hi-tek and didn't go back. Easier, better results and more durable were the reasons.

 

[Texas10mm]

I'd second Hi-Tek.

But if you want to powder coat then contact Smoke over at Cast Boolits. All his powders are tested to work.

Or you could go to https://roseyspowdercoating.com/ and get Astatic Red and Ink Black. I've used both those powders a lot and they are really good powders.

 

[forrest r]

I buy my pc from smoke over cast bullets, excellent quality fair price.

Don't know if you're melting your alloy in another pan then fluxing to make a clean alloy to cast with or using your lee pot. You should use a separate pan.

Been casting for awhile now and I'm not picking on you, simply pointing things out:

Your bullets have voids in them, that's from junk in your alloy, needs to be fluxed/cleaned better. I like to water drop the bullets when I can, it keeps the bullets from banging together putting dents in the bottom driver bands of the cast bullets (accuracy). Lee molds are hard to get the timing right to keep from tearing the bullet's base when cutting the sprue's off. Sometimes I'll use a damp cloth to cool the sprue's then open the mold. This discolors the sprue plate (big deal) but it stops the tearing/voids in the bottom of the bullet (accuracy). I use a inferred temp gun when I'm annealing bullet jackets in a kiln. They don't work the greatest for shinny objects like lead. Do yourself a hige favor and buy a cheap rex-c-100 kit that has a heat sink like this 1.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PID-REX-C1...=16391890289933f0643145034e4182afc0a61fcf228d

You can use it to control your lee pot and your toaster oven when pc'ing bullets. Doing this takes all the guess work out of your casting & coating while alloying you to make excellent quality bullets that will be extremely accurater. Accuracy is consistency.

I use a rex-c-100 like the one in the link with the raised heat sink, I did get a longer K thermocouple. The longer thermocouple makes it easier to cast bullets with, don't have to keep moving the short thermocouple down as you use the alloy casting.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3m-0-400-S...=33324044196705415b32dda848ffa5738990a653d57a

Simple enough:
Make sure your alloys clean (junk in alloy gets to score the bbl)
Get a powder that covers in 1 coat (darker)
use a rex-c-100 to cast/coat with

Faster/better bullets ='s quality range time.

I like smoke's john deere green myself

I got red for the misses along with using red for HOT loads.


Good luck

 

[Bandit67]

I'm brand new at casting and powder coating too. I watched some youtube videos by Elvis Ammo and Fortune Cookie 45LC. I used the shake n bake method with Eastwood Ford Dark Blue and Vermillion (Chevy Orange). Cool whip container no BB's. Used a Salvation Army toaster oven at 400° for 20 minutes. The blue coated very well but the orange was not as good. Did a second light coat over the orange and got almost 100% coverage. And I'm not standing the bullets up. Then I experimented with some mixed blue orange, one and two coats. Ran them through a Lee push through sizer and I think they turned out pretty good. Might be awhile before I get to test them.

 

[bersaguy]

I buy my pc from smoke over cast bullets, excellent quality fair price.

Don't know if you're melting your alloy in another pan then fluxing to make a clean alloy to cast with or using your lee pot. You should use a separate pan.

Been casting for awhile now and I'm not picking on you, simply pointing things out:

Good luck

Thanks for all the good info. The bullets I casted in the photos are from mystery alloy...was already in the pot when I acquired it, so not sure if its really good for loading, but I figured good enough to practice on. I made up some muffins from clip on wheel weights a while back, and fluxed the alloy at that time, but they've oxidized a bit since then. Is it better then to remelt in a separate pot, flux and then send it to the lee pot? Also, how do you get the last of the alloy out of the pot? Just pour it out into a scrap pan?

 

[Texas10mm]

Thanks for all the good info. The bullets I casted in the photos are from mystery alloy...was already in the pot when I acquired it, so not sure if its really good for loading, but I figured good enough to practice on. I made up some muffins from clip on wheel weights a while back, and fluxed the alloy at that time, but they've oxidized a bit since then. Is it better then to remelt in a separate pot, flux and then send it to the lee pot? Also, how do you get the last of the alloy out of the pot? Just pour it out into a scrap pan?

You should store the pot FULL of alloy. This keeps the pot from rusting.

 

[forrest r]

Thanks for all the good info. The bullets I casted in the photos are from mystery alloy...was already in the pot when I acquired it, so not sure if its really good for loading, but I figured good enough to practice on. I made up some muffins from clip on wheel weights a while back, and fluxed the alloy at that time, but they've oxidized a bit since then. Is it better then to remelt in a separate pot, flux and then send it to the lee pot? Also, how do you get the last of the alloy out of the pot? Just pour it out into a scrap pan?

I run it all the way out casting bullets. It's good to run your pot all the way down every now and then. Keep a paint stirrer or wooden shim around to scrap the sides of the empty pot. It's also good to remove the pour stem and clean under it and the pour spout hole while your at it. Doing these things will keep your pot from dripping and give you a good consistent stream when casting. I also like to take bore polishing paste every now and then putting it on the end of the pour rod and twisting it in the pour spout mating the 2 surfaces. This "fitting of the 2 parts is a good thing.

 

[JPIMBO]

i bought some pc bullets from precision- work well in my pc 40 carbine. but im wanting to adjust my alloy to suit. i've had no leading with the black pcs. its a special problem, who do you believe. but i think the optimum hardness can be reached. But with powder coat you don't need to do that. The powder coat does it for you.

 

[jmorris]

You should store the pot FULL of alloy. This keeps the pot from rusting.

Also gets you started next time faster as lead is a better conductor of heat than air.

 

[forrest r]

i bought some pc bullets from precision- work well in my pc 40 carbine. but im wanting to adjust my alloy to suit. i've had no leading with the black pcs. its a special problem, who do you believe. but i think the optimum hardness can be reached. But with powder coat you don't need to do that. The powder coat does it for you.

This is 2 different posts with you saying "optimum hardness or idea"??? That formula for finding the "optimum" bhn is pure BS!!!!! Nothing could be further from the truth. This is nothing more than antiquated thinking that people tried to apply to antiquated processes using alloys and lubes. And even with the alloy/lubes that formula is still BS.

Tin is still king when it comes to alloys and elasticity is the word you should be using not optimum. An accurate cast bullet has to withstand the rotational torques of the short start pressures in the throats of your 40 carbine. The short stubby bullets you use in the 40s&w is a huge +. Leading shouldn't even be in your vocabulary when dealing with coated bullets. The coating has to be either scrapped off or not applied correctly to get leading with coated bullets.

What's wrong with this picture if you were using the "optimum" formula to find the "optimum hardness"???


I've posted that target before, it's nothing more than my blammo ammo load I use in the 44mag for shooting dirt clods @ 100yds. The bullet is a Mihec 640, a clone of the lyman 429677. Easy enough to look up, 11.5gr of unique

In the lyman 50th edition it lists a max load for the 429677/unique at 11.7gr 37,900cup.
A 2005 alliant manual lists a lead 240gr swc/unique at 11.8gr 35,000psi

Just for the heck of it lets call that 11.5gr/240gr 429640 load/bullet 30,000psi.

30,000 / (1422 x.90) or 30,000/1280 ='s 23.4

The "optimum" alloy should be 23.4bhn but I'm off a little bit. Those bullets are 8/9bhn and were doing 1400fps+ in that 14" contender bbl.

That's what's wrong with that picture. It's a 8/9bhn bullet being pushed with a 30,000+psi load doing 1400fps+/. Using a 23bhn bullet would do nothing for the accuracy of that load. It's nothing more than blammo ammo, plain and simple. There's no leading with that load either.

Another what's wrong with this picture???


The bullet used for that target is a 14bhn lee 160tl-2r. I did head to head testing with traditional lubed vs pc. That target is with the green pc'd bullet


That 37.0gr load of h335 pushing that 160gr bullet (165gr with pc/gc) is a 39,000+psi load

39,000/1280 ='s 30.4bhn

No leading with that 14bhn coated bullet. The optimum bhn using the formula is 30.4bhn. 14bhn is doing 1 1/2 moa 10-shot groups doing 2600fps+.

That's 2 different bullets/loads/alloys with 30,000+psi loads. The only thing they have in common is they have enough tin in them to be able to operate effectively with those kinds of pressures.

Tin also plays a huge role in age hardening. No tin/low tin and bullets either won't age harder or have a minimal increase in hardening. Doesn't matter if the bullets are cast and air cooled, water dropped or heat treated. That's why lyman recommends using their #2 alloy, 95/5/5
95% lead
5% tin
5% antimony
Lyman's #1 alloy was 90/10
90% lead
10% tin

Tin got to the point of too much $$$ and antimony showed up on the scene. Ideally you want equal parts tin/antimony
lyman #2 95/5/5 15bhn
My alloy 95.5/4.5/4.5 14bhn

You want an optimum alloy formula you got it, equal parts tin/antimony. You're 98% lead/2% antimony should be 96/2/2.

Adding 2% tin (96/2/2) would give you a 11bhn alloy air cooled and +/- 14bhn water dropped. If you pc those bullets cast from that alloy you couldn't push them fast enough/hard enough in the 40 carbine to have anything fail.

PC is the great equalizer when it comes to cast bullets. With pc'd bullets alloy's take a back seat allowing the pc to open larger windows to finding accurate loads easier along with using low bhn alloys with extreme ranges in velocity and pressure that traditionally cast/lubed bullets couldn't even begin to do.

 

[jmorris]

Would like to use a simple shake and bake method with a thrift store toster oven.

I generally coat around 150 per batch.

I mixed 5ml of the color, 5 ml of acetone and 1 ml of the catalyst. Adding about 1 tea spoon to the tumbling bullets and baking at 365 for 10 min. Let them cool and re tumbled them with another tea spoon of the mix and baking for another 10 min.

The tumbler I built is a paint bucket I found at home depot that is sort of D shaped, figured this would work for agitation, and uses disposable liners that are cheap so I don't have to worry about clean up.

I got the oven off craigslist for $25 or so.

I do all the operations at the same time, to save time and the "tumble bucket" is only ran for until the acetone flashes off, then I turn it off. So its not always making so much racket but this is what my operation looks like.