Powder coating deterioration?

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Hey all,
Hope everyone's doing well and got those press handles crankin'.
I'm unsure if this has been covered here (it probably has but my forum search-fu is weak), haven't found exactly the answer I'm looking for.
In this video MANNYCA (a great YouTube channel) shows some powder coat deterioration when exposed to certain gun powders. Is this still going on or have the coatings changed? Is hi-tek coating affected by any powders? If this info isn't out there perhaps some testing is required. I've got some rounds loaded a year ago with PC bullets over h110 - curious if I should pull a few down.
What do you think?
 
There has been reports of PC being attacked by the high nitro powders but that all I know. Have not heard anything on rile powders.

No reports on the HyTec coatings, so I suspect there good.

I would break a few down if your concern just for piece of mind.
 
SOME powder coats are attacked by the high nitro powders. Others aren't. One thing to note is the correct cure time. Many people don't leave them in the oven long enough. The time starts when the coating has melted, not when they are placed in the oven.

I just cure all my powder coated bullets for 30 minutes total time, starting with a pre-heated oven. This has worked well for me.

That being said I prefer Hi-Tek. It's not attacked by those powders.

If in doubt just place some powder in a container and place the bullet in question in the container.
 
I keep my supplies unassembled in most instances and keep enough loaded ahead for whatever practice I might want at the next range session. Then load them up when I get back or the next day at the latest. This way things stay fluid and there is never a big pile of the wrong type of ammo sitting around that I have to take apart to get, say primers to load something else. Also it is easier to check for deteriorating propellant if in a can instead of loaded ammo. Just my method.;)
 
I keep my supplies unassembled in most instances and keep enough loaded ahead for whatever practice I might want at the next range session. Then load them up when I get back or the next day at the latest. This way things stay fluid and there is never a big pile of the wrong type of ammo sitting around that I have to take apart to get, say primers to load something else. Also it is easier to check for deteriorating propellant if in a can instead of loaded ammo. Just my method.;)
I usually keep at least 500 loaded rounds for any gun I shoot regularly and supplies to reload them a couple times. I'm a busy guy (even these days) and I'll go through times when I can't get to the range for a couple months but I'll still hit the loading bench a couple hours per week.

Surplus is good, the oldest ammo I've got is probably 8-10 years old and I do try to rotate through but I'm always tinkering with something new and ammo gets shelved .

I was thinking about general deterioration from some photos that got posted here a few times of case pitting and deteriorated powders - as I remember there wasn't a clear consensus as to the cause -case metallurgy or powder breakdown, maybe there was a conclusion and I missed it. That type of situation can certainly be avoided by not assembling the cartridges until your about ready to use them. I always want a surplus loaded though.

I haven't used many PCd bullets, a few commercially available types. But I've shot most of it up and haven't preferred them because I don't have issues with leading and they smell a little funky.

A few weeks ago I got some 357 & 45-70 bullets from MBC and figured I'd try the hi-tek coated. So I have a few hundred of those loaded and haven't been able to go shoot at all so I haven't assembled many. I planned to settle on a load that a revolver & carbine can agree on and load the rest.
Then I saw this video and a couple others and thought maybe I should ask the vast wisdom of THR for an answer.
 
Makes sense to me. I am retired so have time when I want to load without other constraints. Another point is should something happen to me and the reloading stuff need to be liquidated boxes of brass, primers, and bullets are more attractive to a buyer than reloads. Even propellant is easier to sell in the container. Just sayin. I also try to keep between 100 and 500 loaded rounds for most of my firearms loaded ahead. Hunting .mo usually 40 rounds though.
 
i am running a test with smokes powder and titegroup. i took a under cured bullet and placed it in a bag of titegroup. the bullet is covered and has been in the bag since february. took it out in march and had some powder stuck on the bottom of the bullet. the powder came off with a touch. put the bullet back into the baggie for a longer run. if titegroup reacts bad with my powder coating i will turn the case box upside down to keep the powder off the bullet.
 
May need a gas check for long term storage.
That's the rub for me. No point in getting coated or coating bullets if they'll be gas checked anyway. I couldn't see a benefit to coating at that point. I use them as I would a gas checked bullet with good results. Hopefully @frankmako keeps us posted if he has any signs of failure from his testing.
So the nitro is what causes the interaction ? I'm not very familiar with what makes up individual powders, how's the nitro content on h110, 2400 & imr4198?- just curious, those are my most commonly used powders with coated bullets right now.
 
I never really thought about it, but if the nitro in double base propellant is reacting with the powder coat, I'd worry more about possible effects on the propellant than on the bullets.
 
15 minutes that should have taken maybe 5 minutes. Skip the first 5 minutes. At around 14 minutes he says what I was gonna say. Only the base of the bullet contacts the powder so putting the whole bullet in a pile of powder means little.
Alliant powder lists the same SDS for Bullseye and Unique so the exact content of Nitro is unknown it lest several % for all their powders
As the first comment on the video states "why didn't he pull the bullets from the loaded rounds and look there?? Even if the base of the bullet had deteriorated coating, so what??
Then there are brands of Powder vs, Hy Tek which is still unknown
 
15 minutes that should have taken maybe 5 minutes.

That, in a nutshell, is my beef with 95% of the videos on Utube. 2 minutes of information scattered amid 15 minutes of garbage.

Most narrators love the sound of their own voice. Hemming and hawing, tangents, telling about their wife at Walmart seeing something.
Most think they have something to say, but have no idea how to get there. They seem to have never heard of scripts or notes.

I rarely watch Utube videos.
 
The guy in the video either didn't have the temp right to cure the pc, didn't bake them long enough for the pc that he was using/thickness of the coating. Couple that with he's using a cheap thermoplastic pc that doesn't have any chemical resistant additives in it to cross-link to.

I use smoke's pc over on the castboolet website. Don't know who actually makes it. But I like the john deere green and have used it for years. Back in 2015 I wondered the same thing so I tossed pc'd bullets coated with jd green in 1# bottles of bullseye power pistol and am select. I left them in the 1# bottles for 6 months.

With the bullseye and power pistol the pc'd bullets started to loose their glossy look/shine. But the pc was still hard, the bullets passed the smash test.
The am select made the bullets dull looking also but not as much as the bullseye or powder pistol.

I have reloads from 2014 that I'm burning up that are loaded with pc'd bullets. They are stored in ammo cans & I haven't had any issues with weird smells, leading, fouling or anything else.

One thing I have done since day 1 was use extended cook times/cure times. Texas 10mm nailed it with his statement that the cure time starts when the powder melts. Cooking time can vary by the thickness of the pc. To long of a cooking time takes all the guess work out of the pc process. 2 years ago I started using a pid to control the temp the end result is an extremely consistent product.

Could it be the powder I'm using vs other brands is the reason I'm not experiencing pc breakdown??? Absolutely, but I personally think it has more to do with human error. This topic has had many posts/tests/reports done over the years over on castboolets. There doesn't seem to be a problem over there.

There are 2 types of pc, thermoplastic and thermoset.

Thermoplastic pc is cheaper to make and it's chemical composition is the same before and after baking. Typically it has no gloss or a vary basic gloss that doesn't have a lot depth to it visually.

Thermoset pc on the other had cross-links with either strait or any combination of polyester, polyurethane epoxy, strait epoxy or acrylics. These types of pc cross-link with the additives above improving the pc's durability along with being resistant to more types of chemicals.

Do a simple search on chemical resistant pc powers, you'll find that not all pc's are created equal.

The jd green I use that I get from smoke. The gloss of this pc has a lot of depth to it when looking at the bullets.
xHUCNJn.jpg

Even with the correct pc (thermosets) if it's not cured correctly it will no cross link and be chemical resistant. I use a cheap toaster over to pc with and was using a cheap $5 thermometer to set the temp with. I pc outside in a shed with the door cracked open. On windy days and the +/- 20 degree thermostat of the oven I'd get under cure at times. The bullets would pass the smash test but the pc would strip off the bullet when fired. It wouldn't build-up/foul the bbl I can only guess the next shot cleared the stripped pc. Recovered bullets with the pc missing from the bullet's body but still on the hp nose (poor man's smash test when hp expanded).
Swqedh0.jpg

This is why I switched over to a pid, it controls the heat to +/- 2*

With these high performance pc coating I did run into an issue with the polymers not being able to withstand the head/friction of the hv/high pressure loads. I started getting black streaks in a 308w bbl when pushing the pc'd bullets 2700fps+.
ltVgHNy.png

I've seen this type of streaking before when using cheap wads for high performance shotgun loads using hot burning powders like bluedot. +/- 200 rounds on the trap range would produce black streaking like what's pictured above using (1990's) claybuster wads. Switchhed to ww wads and the streaks went away. The black streaks come right out with bore-tech eliminator and now when I simply tumble lube my pc'd rifle bullets with 45/45/10 (45% lee liquid lube/45% Johnson's paste wax/10% acetone). I've ran cast/pc'd bullets with the tumble lube over 3,000fps with no issues.

Anyway not all powder coating is created equal, nor is the cook times, heat/variations +/- of the different ovens to turn off or on. Couple that with human error. I can say that I use quality powders and have upgraded my equipment reducing errors in the baking process. I have no reason to worry about the chemicals in gunpowder degrading the pc. But then again my pc is applied correctly and it might also have something to do with the quality and type of pc I use.
 
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