Powder coating question.

[Casull]

So im teaching myself how to cast and now powder coat. Thanks to the help of some awesome forum members I've learned enough about casting alloys and bhn to move on to my next step. Im loading gas checked 454 casull 300 grain bullets and i have successfully proved to myself that i CAN strengthen a bullet to bhn 30. I know, hardness isn't everything too hard can make for a crappy shot and damage a firearm, too soft can do the same. Im asking these questions simply to gain knowledge and extra “probably useless” experience. For practice i cast homemade clip on wheel weight alloy and heat treated them then tested three days later and got up to 28 bhn then i smiled. Then moved on to powder coat practice, I cooked the powder coat at 400 for 20 mins then water quenched them again. One day later they tested at 13 bhn three days later no change. I know that being powder coated means the bullet hardness doesn't need to be quite as hard as a lubed bullet but 13 is way to soft for a 45-50,000 psi casull. Does anyone have any in-site or good advice on how to powder coat without loosing so much hardness or is this side effect un avoidable? Im not apposed to traditional lube at all in fact i have 2500+ ready to use if i need too.

 

[troy fairweather]

Try lower temp and less time.

 

[bersaguy]

I'm a bit of a noob to casting and powder coating myself, but here's what I've found out. You may want to skip the initial water quench as the powder coating process is going to basically anneal the lead. I'm using clip on wheel weight alloy, and found that quenching after powder coating definitely gets the bullets harder, but not as hard as a water quench after casting. I have no way to test my hardness, so all of this is a little touchy feely and subjective. Now, I have heard that water quenched bullets loose bit of hardness after a few weeks, and air cooled bullets will gain some hardness after a few weeks. So if you're going for a hard alloy for magnum loads, don't rely on quenching for the hardness, but rather mix in some linotype or get some Superhard from Roto Metals to bump up the BHN. 13 is probably a bit low for what you're looking to do, but keep in mind, Elmer Keith was using a 16:1 lead/tin alloy with a BHN 11 when he was developing 44mag...so your projectiles don't need to get up to 30BHN to work well, but anywhere into the 18-24 range would probably be good. Again, most of this is just from what I've picked up from stalking castboolits.com and watching fortunecookie45lc on YouTube. As of yet, my cast loads have all been 38spl and 45acp, all under 900fps, but I just finished a bunch of 125 grain that I've PC'd and sized for 9mm, and I'll be trying some of the those sized at .358 for some 357mag. We'll see how it goes. Also, keep us posted on how the powder coat holds up to those stout loads

 

[viagrow]

I spray a bunch of Eastwood epoxy into a plastic tub and swirl around the cast bullets and dump them onto a rack to bake. Very nice finish, quick and cheap. Dump then onto the wire rack while the spray is still kinda wet or the bullets get sticky and ruin the finish. Using black epoxy and the method I mentioned will usually get me a nice baked black satin finish. The finish is tough and makes it through the sizer die and down the barrel without coming off.

 

[AJC1]

If you want a powder to learn with the Eastwood ford blue is bulletproof.

 

[viagrow]

If you want a powder to learn with the Eastwood ford blue is bulletproof.

Now I have to give that a try because the color matches my Dillon machines....LOL

 

[AJC1]

So pretty

 

[armoredman]

I have no idea what the temp is but it's the "toast" setting on a $5 Goodwill toaster over for 20 minutes, works perfectly for setting powdercoat.

 

[forrest r]

Why not pc and heat treat at the same time???

 

[PapaG]

Been doing this forever and I want to know how the heck you are getting 30 bhn?

 

[frankmako]

what type/brand of lead hardness tester are you using. i water drop my bullets when i cast. i water drop my bullets after i take them out of the oven when i powder coat them. i cast with wheels weights and two water drops are not needed. but i do it anyway,,,,sometimes.

 

[Texas10mm]

Been doing this forever and I want to know how the heck you are getting 30 bhn?

One does wonder, especially with wheel weights as a starting point.

 

[jmorris]

I too am curious of test equipment and method.

 

[AJC1]

what type/brand of lead hardness tester are you using. i water drop my bullets when i cast. i water drop my bullets after i take them out of the oven when i powder coat them. i cast with wheels weights and two water drops are not needed. but i do it anyway,,,,sometimes.

I was curious about testing after PC. Do you believe your getting a reliable result or is it like a warm m and m candy.

 

[doubleh]

When I saw the 30 number I became curious. I have no idea of the number of pounds of #4 babbitt metal I melted and poured for rope sockets on pump jack bridles but it was a lot. I got the bright idea of casting round balls to use in my muzzle loading rifle using it. They made beautiful balls and were pretty accurate to boot. I did have to use a thinner patch because they wouldn’t engrave at all. I could recover those I shot into a sandbank and found no expansion all. You could wipe them off and reuse them if you wanted. They were so hard that they shattered on any rock I shot. I went agoogling to find the hardness of #4 babbitt and finally found a website that gave bar metal at 23 which is what I used. Bearing babbitt only made it to 29. I’m leery of the 30 hardness and even if it could be achieved it would be like FMJ and I would be leery of shooting it unless sized the same as jacketed bullets. The bar babbitt is so hard it makes a “clink” sound when tapped with a hammer.

Edited to correct the mistakes my ipad made for me. Gonna quit using that thing.

 

[.38 Special]

Perhaps a silly question, but was the coated lead tested after the coating was scraped off? Otherwise it is the hardness of the coating which is being tested...

 

[Casull]

I'm a bit of a noob to casting and powder coating myself, but here's what I've found out. You may want to skip the initial water quench as the powder coating process is going to basically anneal the lead. I'm using clip on wheel weight alloy, and found that quenching after powder coating definitely gets the bullets harder, but not as hard as a water quench after casting. I have no way to test my hardness, so all of this is a little touchy feely and subjective. Now, I have heard that water quenched bullets loose bit of hardness after a few weeks, and air cooled bullets will gain some hardness after a few weeks. So if you're going for a hard alloy for magnum loads, don't rely on quenching for the hardness, but rather mix in some linotype or get some Superhard from Roto Metals to bump up the BHN. 13 is probably a bit low for what you're looking to do, but keep in mind, Elmer Keith was using a 16:1 lead/tin alloy with a BHN 11 when he was developing 44mag...so your projectiles don't need to get up to 30BHN to work well, but anywhere into the 18-24 range would probably be good. Again, most of this is just from what I've picked up from stalking castboolits.com and watching fortunecookie45lc on YouTube. As of yet, my cast loads have all been 38spl and 45acp, all under 900fps, but I just finished a bunch of 125 grain that I've PC'd and sized for 9mm, and I'll be trying some of the those sized at .358 for some 357mag. We'll see how it goes. Also, keep us posted on how the powder coat holds up to those stout loads

Good info. The bullet was 27 bhn after heat treating and quenching then dropped to 13 after powder coating. Its now day 5 with no change at all. Fortune cookie did a video on 454 casull casting so im going to contact him for some More specific advice. 44 mag and 454 casull aren't in the same league and there isnt many people who deal will 454 it seems like.

 

[Casull]

Try lower temp and less time.

Ill contact Eastwood to see what my options are for heat and time

 

[Casull]

If you want a powder to learn with the

If you want a powder to learn with the Eastwood ford blue is bulletproof.

Thanks for chiming in. I made a homemade clip on wheel weight alloy and it went all the way up to 30 so i figured out the heat treating problem was my old alloy. The homemade clip on wheel weight alloy went back to 13 after i powder coated it and thats just not going to cut it. So ill see what fortune cookie did.

 

[Casull]

View attachment 920399
I have no idea what the temp is but it's the "toast" setting on a $5 Goodwill toaster over for 20 minutes, works perfectly for setting powdercoat.

Why not pc and heat treat at the same time???

Im heating them to 490 for the heat treat then the PC recommends 400 cure temp so im not sure if the PC can handle that high of temp

 

[AJC1]

Im heating them to 490 for the heat treat then the PC recommends 400 cure temp so im not sure if the PC can handle that high of temp

Why not just try it with 10. Smash them and let us know. That's an easy test...

 

[Casull]

Been doing this forever and I want to know how the heck you are getting 30 bhn?

Point a small fan blowing a

Been doing this forever and I want to know how the heck you are getting 30 bhn?

I made an alloy that has the same % as clip on wheel weights OR just use cww alloy. Then i found the temp that melts my bullets =500 then i set the toaster oven 10 degrees lower for me that is 490. cook them for 1 hour then i plunked them into water around 35-40 degrees. I had to supercharge my toaster oven to get up that high first, mine reached 750 before the handle melted off. If you want that how too you'll have to private message me because i don't want to be responsible for all the burned down houses.

 

[Casull]

what type/brand of lead hardness tester are you using. i water drop my bullets when i cast. i water drop my bullets after i take them out of the oven when i powder coat them. i cast with wheels weights and two water drops are not needed. but i do it anyway,,,,sometimes.

Im using a lee tester/art pencil test

 

[Casull]

One does wonder, especially with wheel weights as a starting point.

if you could find some of my old posts you would see all the trouble ive been having with heat treating. the conclusion that i came too was that my alloy ratios where the problem and i never did figure out why. then i gave up on that crap and used it for 45 lc bullets. Then i turned to the LASC for info and read that cww can be treated past 30 bhn so i ran with it, i supercharged my brand new toaster oven then cooked my freedom seeds at 490 for 1 hour then plunked them in 35-40 degree water. these where 300gr 454 bullets that slumped at 500 degrees yours will be different so heat a few to find the slump temp then back it down 10 degrees for 1 hour. Stand them all on there bases so that the weight of a "pile" doesn't deform or smoosh the soft bottom bullets.

 

[Casull]

I was curious about testing after PC. Do you believe your getting a reliable result or is it like a warm m and m candy.

I love the analogy now i want m&m's. I tested the base of the bullet after heat treating and before coating them. Then i coated them all standing up on there bases so there was no candy coating on the bases just lead. Be back im going to the store for M&M's.